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  110693449395: Space Shuttle Test Patch

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Author Topic:   110693449395: Space Shuttle Test Patch
Kevin T. Randall
Member

Posts: 520
From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 06-07-2011 11:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Congratulations Jacques on winning this very rare vintage shuttle patch. It's gone to a very good home.

Anyway, just to let you know another side to this story. I was adding all the names of the bidders to the Bid History list I printed off for future reference and to see who else had bid for this patch.

I had placed a bid on this patch early on myself, (28th May at 10:46am BST), with the intension of bidding again near the end of the auction.

I received an eBay message from the seller rklee01 (850) at 21:49pm, (one hour after you had bid Jacques), and 4 hours before the end of the auction saying, "I am sorry, No International shipping", which I was very disappointed about. I did think about bidding again, but in the end decided not to as it could of caused problems with me getting it shipped if I had won.

I hope you do receive this patch without any shipping problems Jacques.

mama04
Member

Posts: 139
From: Haarlem, N-H, Netherlands
Registered: Sep 2010

posted 06-07-2011 02:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mama04   Click Here to Email mama04     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting story Kevin. I too got the message from the seller That he wasn't willing to ship internationally, so I never 'got in the game'.

Anyway, makes me feel better that Jacques was the winner. At least it found a good home.

Kevin T. Randall
Member

Posts: 520
From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 06-07-2011 05:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have just received an eBay message from the seller rklee01 (850) at 22:52pm BST, he has decided not to send Jacques this patch, but to re-list it and open the bidding up to all International bidders.

I'm not sure he can do this as the patch was sold in open auction once already.

Rick Mulheirn
Member

Posts: 2716
From: England
Registered: Feb 2001

posted 06-07-2011 05:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Rick Mulheirn   Click Here to Email Rick Mulheirn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Whether he is allowed to do that or not I personally would not wish to deal with an individual who would even consider such a move.

Greggy_D
Member

Posts: 780
From: Michigan
Registered: Jul 2006

posted 06-07-2011 06:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Greggy_D   Click Here to Email Greggy_D     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Absolutely, Rick. What a backhanded, deceptive move by the seller. It certainly has to be against Ebay's rules.

fredtrav
Member

Posts: 1123
From: Birmingham AL USA
Registered: Aug 2010

posted 06-07-2011 06:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fredtrav   Click Here to Email fredtrav     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jacques, if you want you can tell the seller to send it to me and I will forward it on to you. He should not be able to do this not accepting your winning bid. If nothing else leave very negative feedback

GACspaceguy
Member

Posts: 1590
From: Guyton, GA
Registered: Jan 2006

posted 06-07-2011 06:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GACspaceguy   Click Here to Email GACspaceguy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jacques needs to send the e-mail that stated the seller was not going to honor the closed sale, to eBay. I would hope that eBay would not let the seller list it again.

george9785
Member

Posts: 196
From: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Registered: Nov 2010

posted 06-07-2011 06:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for george9785   Click Here to Email george9785     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's unfortunate that the seller wouldn't originally agree to send internationally but he really didn't do anything wrong. He's entitled to set the shipping terms and if the winning bidder didn't seek approval first and just decided to bid and hope for the best, the seller is entitled not to sell to him. There's no eBay violation.

He's obviously decided that he can probably get more money for the item which is why he wants to relist, but it's just levelling the playing field now to allow everyone who wants(ed) to bid to go ahead. It would have been more unfair in my opinion if only those who inquired first to seek approval to bid and were told "no" lost out because they respected the seller's terms especially if he decided in the end that he would sell to someone international who bid and "won" but who hadn't sought approval first.

It's tiresome doing so, but I generally try to seek approval first to bid on these kinds of listings but I occasionally don't and will bid in the last minute. If the seller decides he won't ship outside his country if I "win", he's entitled to do that.

Greggy_D
Member

Posts: 780
From: Michigan
Registered: Jul 2006

posted 06-07-2011 07:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Greggy_D   Click Here to Email Greggy_D     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
With all due respect George, the bidder can decide to either open or block International bidding upon creation of the auction listing.

The seller could have blocked International shipping from the beginning and for one reason or another, chose to block it via e-mail after the auction began.

Now the seller is reneging on the winning bid for a reason we really do not know, although may suspect.

george9785
Member

Posts: 196
From: Burnaby, BC, Canada
Registered: Nov 2010

posted 06-07-2011 07:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for george9785   Click Here to Email george9785     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Of course I know that Greg but many sellers just don't bother or don't take the time to figure out how to block international bids. I'm also well aware of how eBay decides on any such complaints. If the seller lists an item and only indicates on that listing that he/she ships to the US, for example, then if someone bids and wins from outside the US and the seller cancels the transaction for that reason, eBay will not support a complaint from the Buyer, even if the Buyer provides a US shipping address which is not linked to his eBay/Paypal account.

Greggy_D
Member

Posts: 780
From: Michigan
Registered: Jul 2006

posted 06-07-2011 08:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Greggy_D   Click Here to Email Greggy_D     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by george9785:
many sellers just don't bother or don't take the time to figure out how to block international bids.

And that is on the onus of the seller.

How many times do we hear, "Ignorance of the law is no excuse"? (Not saying this falls under any law, but rules do apply and can be extrapolated to this example.)

benguttery
Member

Posts: 542
From: Fort Worth, TX, USA
Registered: Feb 2005

posted 06-07-2011 09:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for benguttery   Click Here to Email benguttery     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey European guys: there are a number of us who would accept a patch for you if you need to send it to us at a US address.

Charlie16
Member

Posts: 362
From: Italy
Registered: Dec 2010

posted 06-08-2011 05:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Charlie16   Click Here to Email Charlie16     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The question of international shipping is now long-standing... Divides the world into two parts (the USA and the rest of the world) is not a good thing.

Among collectors would be better to be open to grow the movement. Furthermore, it is odious to be excluded from the auction Because the market is global.

The excuse of shipments no longer difficult now holds. We are in 2011...

I think it not convenient to exclude Europe because the euro is strong, we can make bids... Why sell an item for auction? To gain the maximum possible.

If one does not understand this, then we can not do anything.

hoorenz
Member

Posts: 824
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2003

posted 06-08-2011 05:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for hoorenz   Click Here to Email hoorenz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Some American sellers on eBay simply have no clue what the world outside the US of A is like. Once, I was contacted by a seller with the question if I would like him to send me some food and clothes as well. Or someone explaining that they actually had trains and planes and cars and roads. I can imagine people like that don't feel comfortable sending items to the Dark Middle Ages. They must be really puzzled how we manage to place bids on eBay in the first place.

Ross
Member

Posts: 394
From: Australia
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 06-08-2011 08:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ross   Click Here to Email Ross     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow, I can't wait to be asked to send someone a picture of kangaroos hopping down the main street in Sydney (Australia). Or maybe Koalas in my back yard. He He

Besixdouze
Member

Posts: 196
From: Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, United Kingdom
Registered: Jan 2011

posted 06-08-2011 08:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Besixdouze   Click Here to Email Besixdouze     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Have to say, on the whole, my experience of buying from the US has been perfectly acceptable with most sellers being extraordinarily helpful and generous. I've only had one instance where a seller remained unconvinced of the benefits of selling to a global marketplace. Needless to say, the item in question went for much less than it would have done had I been able to bid as well.

By the way Ross, what's a kangaroo? LOL.

JasonB
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Posts: 781
From:
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 06-08-2011 09:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for JasonB   Click Here to Email JasonB     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The real issue with sending things outside the U.S. is getting a confirmation number. You can register the package but it costs about $12 extra. There's no way to put that into the shipping costs on eBay so then you get people complaining that the shipping costs too much but with no confirmation number all they have to do is say they didn't get it and the seller is out the product and the money.

Also there's the different customs forms and the fact that it's difficult to know exactly what the shipping cost will be. And the fact that some of these countries can take weeks to deliver the item. It can be a bit of a headache sometimes.

Spaceguy5
Member

Posts: 421
From: Pampa, TX, US
Registered: May 2011

posted 06-08-2011 09:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spaceguy5   Click Here to Email Spaceguy5     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by hoorenz:
Some American sellers on eBay simply have no clue what the world outside the US of A is like.
Wow... And this whole time, I was sure that those Americans -- the few that flunked out of elementary school -- didn't even know how to use the internet. Rest assured, we're trying to keep their population small.

Ross
Member

Posts: 394
From: Australia
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 06-08-2011 12:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ross   Click Here to Email Ross     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've had hundreds of packages sent to me from the US and Europe and, except for the auction houses which are expensive, the postage has always been reasonable. No seller I've dealt with bothers to get a confirmation number (at least not that I am aware of and if they do they don't charge extra) and they usually only register it if I request it which I rarely do. Only a couple of sellers use a customs form.

Admittedly my packages are stamps and covers and usually worth less than $100.

So I fail to see the problem with sending small packages outside the US unless Europe and other countries have different regulations. In Australia, printed matter and many cheap items don't require a customs form if they are under $1000.

Spacepsycho
Member

Posts: 754
From: Huntington Beach, Calif.
Registered: Aug 2004

posted 06-08-2011 12:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spacepsycho   Click Here to Email Spacepsycho     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ross:
Wow, I can't wait to be asked to send someone a picture of kangaroos hopping down the main street in Sydney (Australia). Or maybe Koalas in my back yard.
WHAT... you mean there aren't kangaroos hopping down every street in Sydney and Koalas in every tree!?!?!? That's the only reason I wanted to visit down under. I suppose the next thing you'll say is that the great barrier reef isn't in a large aquarium building, like we Americans all know it is.

By the way, the reason most people on eBay don't sell international is because of all the fraud and they don't know about customs requirements for shipping out of the country. Don't blame them, just ask a cS'er for help and I've been happy to accept shipment for those out of the USA and then send the item to them, as long as it wasn't an ITAR item.

JasonB
Member

Posts: 781
From:
Registered: Sep 2003

posted 06-08-2011 01:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for JasonB   Click Here to Email JasonB     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You have to get a confirmation number if your selling on eBay. That's all they go by. If you don't they will give the money back to the buyer simply if they say they never got it, so you basically just gave your item away for free and paid for the postage too.

If you're buying from an auction house they don't really need to get a confirmation number because there is no real recourse if you don't get the package. They may work with you but they're not made to instantly refund your money like eBay does to sellers. If your selling internationally on eBay and not getting a confirmation number your really rolling the dice and asking for a problem.

Charlie16
Member

Posts: 362
From: Italy
Registered: Dec 2010

posted 06-08-2011 08:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Charlie16   Click Here to Email Charlie16     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I note with pleasure that I raised the real problem between the U.S. and the rest of the world. As collector for many years, I had the pleasure to buy and sell around the world. I would like to point out that in my country have been invented and built several modules of the ISS... just to remind American friends that we've evolved...

Seriously: send mail trail as they do with the auction houses (at least for the more expensive items) please do not refuse to sell abroad because I have never refused anyone, and now I have many friends around the world!

Is great to meet new people who has your same passion.

Sorry, I remind that English is not my language...

Kevin T. Randall
Member

Posts: 520
From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 11-24-2011 05:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This same 1978-1979 Space Shuttle Mated Vertical Ground Vibration Test patch has just been re-listed by the same seller, rklee01 (864), but this time there is an International bidding bar in place, and an International communication bar as well.

It will be interesting to see what response there will be to this patch this time?

albatron
Member

Posts: 2191
From: Stuart, Florida, USA
Registered: Jun 2000

posted 11-24-2011 07:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for albatron   Click Here to Email albatron     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Has anyone bothered to ASK the seller why he doesn't want to ship Internationally or are we all simply assuming and making up things?

International shipping is more difficult than in the US. I've had International buyers complain they never got the item, and I can't prove or disprove as tracking is not available through the USPS. You have to use FedEx or a similar company. That drives the shipping costs up. If the buyer doesn't mind, I don't mind doing it that way.

And that's simply one of the reasons why. Alan Bean had to raise his handling fee as at the time, he had to actually go to the post office, stand in line and take time out of his life to mail internationally. That's pretty much changed, if you use the US Postal Service, and easier. But then, no tracking

I'm quite sure it's for other reasons than simply prejudice.

His bidder ID is: rklee01, in the previous post eliminate the 864, that's his feedback score.

p51
Member

Posts: 1073
From: Olympia, WA, USA
Registered: Sep 2011

posted 11-25-2011 05:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for p51   Click Here to Email p51     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry, I am leaning more toward the seller on this one.

I no longer sell anything on eBay outside the USA. The hassles of shipping, bidders griping about customs fees (as if I had anything to do with that), often asking for an item to be listed as a "gift" instead of what it really is have proven too much to be worth the effort to me.

J.L
Member

Posts: 480
From: Bloomington, Illinois, USA
Registered: May 2005

posted 11-25-2011 10:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for J.L   Click Here to Email J.L     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I guess I don't quite understand the problem. I would say at least a third of my business at Retro Space Images is with customers outside of the U.S. You guys and gals are great. Well worth the occasional late delivery. They always arrive eventually.

Kevin T. Randall
Member

Posts: 520
From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008

posted 12-04-2011 05:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kevin T. Randall   Click Here to Email Kevin T. Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This time this patch went for $204.02 with 20 bids from 6 bidders. Where as it reached $138.26 with 15 bids from 11 bidders in June.
One was also sold by Lunar Legacies for $179.95 in September this year.

All times are CT (US)

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