posted 09-10-2002 02:37 AM               

The whole time this is going on the cameras are rolling.

Well, one thing leads to another and you see Buzz throwing a right jab at somebody! It isn't clear who it was aimed at, or if he even connected but man, you can see Buzz winding up and letting go.

Of course they are whining about lawsuits, blah blah blah... I for one will be proud to donate money to the Buzz Aldrin defense fund if he needs it.

posted 09-10-2002 07:34 AM               

Lunar Landing Skeptic Says 'Buzz' Aldrin Attacked Him

Beverly Hills police said they are investigating a complaint that Apollo 11 astronaut Edwin E. "Buzz" Aldrin struck a man in the face Monday after the man asked Aldrin to swear on a Bible that he had been to the moon. Detectives said they responded to a disturbance Monday at the Luxe Hotel on Rodeo Drive and took a report from Bart Sibrel, 37, who said he was battered by the 72-year-old astronaut. Aldrin, who took part in the 1969 lunar mission, was gone when police arrived about 4:30 p.m. and was not interviewed, said Beverly Hills Police Lt. Joe Lombardi.

Sibrel said he does not believe Aldrin or anyone else has ever walked on the moon.

posted 09-10-2002 11:13 AM            

Point is, this guy deserved it.

posted 09-10-2002 12:18 PM               

By the guys own argument - millions seeing the event live on TV, actual witnesses to the event on the spot and piles of physical evidence count for nothing at all!

posted 09-10-2002 01:08 PM            

It was a "hoax punch".

It never really happened.

posted 09-10-2002 01:52 PM               

Buzz returns with with a pop to the guy's nose. Sibrel wasn't hurt — no blood is spilled — and he continues chasing Buzz across the street (even if his cameraman refuses to follows).

Sibrel got exactly what he deserved.

posted 09-10-2002 06:46 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
Sibrel wasn't hurt -- no blood is spilled --

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Too bad.

Apparently he was sacked from his job as a cameraman from an NBC affiliate in Tennessee after he was arrested for trespassing on the Ohio farm of a certain other Apollo astronaut.

posted 09-10-2002 07:25 PM               

My friend Bill and I dealt with those same two clowns last year at the Astronaut Hall of Fame induction ceremonies at Kennedy Space Center. They gave Bill Anders and Al Worden a very rough time!

We went out in search of them with somewhat evil intent as they were ruining events with their bible routine. They were lucky and so were we that it took us so long to locate them. When we caught up with them near the front gate, they "bravely" denied doing anything so I told them to watch it and we went on our way.

The really strange thing is that my friend and I are two of the calmest and easy going people you could ever meet. However, their verbal assault on such a gentleman as Mr. Al Worden got our blood boiling big time. We heard about but did nit witness their assault on Mr. Anders.

posted 09-10-2002 07:40 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Rodina:
But no one is going to prosecute Aldrin.

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If he sues, Buzz can ignore the suit and risk an award by default, or he can defend himself. He could, of course, do that without himself giving evidence, simply by having his lawyer cross-examine Sibrel, but he may feel obliged to give evidence to explain the circumstances fairly and completely.

That would, of course, require him to... swear on the Bible! And Sibrel's lawyer could cross-examine Buzz to his heart's content about the "hoax" nonsense. (That might bring this ridiculous business to a head!)

I'm not familiar with American law, but I assume Buzz could lodge a counterclaim for damages for harassment, assault, etc. (There seem to be stories in the press every day of American juries awarding millions of dollars to people who have been "upset." Buzz would surely have a much better case!)

posted 09-10-2002 09:00 PM            

Additionally, someone legally should put a short leash on this "moonwalker stalker," if in fact he has a history of causing a scene.

posted 09-10-2002 09:59 PM            

That said, the point about swearing Buzz in in court won't really play out the way this jackass wants. All courts in the United States can take what's called "judicial notice" of facts which are incontravertible. For instance, you don't need as a lawyer to prove that the sun rose at 7:13 a.m. on some day by bringing in experts. If there is some question as to the time of sunrise (say for visibility of a witness to some crime near dawn), the judge will simply accept this as a fact and move on. It need not be tried by the jury as a fact.

Here, Seitel (hereinafter "Jackass") risks the judge just taking Judicial Notice of the fact that 12 men, including Buzz Aldrin, have walked on the moon. The judge isn't going to let either side call in any expert witnesses to testify as to whether we went there or not because, in this criminal case (which won't happen), because it's utterly irrelevant to Buzz's (possible) criminal liability. If someone calls you a liar, you can argue pretty effectively that you were provoked, even if you are, in fact, a liar.

Now, if this were to go to a civil case (and it probably will - this is the bigger problem for Buzz) we've got a slightly more complex issue.

1. Jackass sues Buzz for battery.
   
2. Buzz defends, claiming to have been provoked.
   • This goes to whether Buzz is liable for the act. Incitement is a defense (if I recall correctly)
3. Jackass counters, saying that Buzz wasn't provoked - since what he said was true (i.e., we didn't go to the moon).
   
4. Buzz then argues that oh yes we did.
   
5. The Judge can then say:
   • To hell with this, we're going to take judicial notice of the fact that we went to the moon - and we're not going to waste the courts time discussing it (i.e., Buzz will never have to answer the question, even if he would hesitate to do so)
     
   • Well, let's call in an expert or two to see if we can prove the point.

• Jackass brings in his "Experts"
  
• Buzz brings in his Experts (say, Jim Lovell or Gene Cernan, who've been there twice)
  
• The Judge (or the jury) will then make a finding of fact as to whether we did or did not go to the moon. Guess how that fact is going to be determined? Yes, we went to the moon.
  
• And Jackass will never, in any case, get to ask Buzz (although, in this remote situation, he might get to ask some other astronaut as Buzz couldn't testify to the point because he's himself on trial).

posted 09-11-2002 12:05 AM            

As they beat the he** out of him in space, no one would hear him whine, I mean scream.

posted 09-11-2002 12:43 AM               

I agree with your first assessment, though, that no one would prosecute Buzz Aldrin for this, let alone the State of California. I just hope it isn't settled anywhere near "Jackass's" satisfaction...

posted 09-11-2002 01:10 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Rodina:
Here Buzz presumably had an ability to flee - and so is not justified in retaliating.

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On the other hand, if Buzz was physically provoked by a push or a shove, seems he would have every right to defend himself and the battery charge could fall back on Bart.

posted 09-11-2002 02:24 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Rizz:
...seems he would have every right to defend himself

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Still. Ain't nothing going to happen to Buzz.

In the meantime, on this anniversary of the September attacks, I hope everyone will remember the victims and their families and, of course, our troops who are off fighting to protect this fine country of ours.

posted 09-13-2002 11:01 AM               

Top Ten Ways To Tick Off Buzz Aldrin

1. When you meet him, make buzzing sound like a bee
   
2. Squeegee his space helmet and ask for a buck
   
3. Spell "Buzz" with one "z"
   
4. Pronounce NASA, "Nassau"
   
5. Fill his oxygen tank with piping hot clam chowder
   
6. Every time he eats cheese, wink and say, "Wonder where you got that, moon man?"
   
7. Ask if he is related to Ruth Buzzi
   
8. Call him Spock
   
9. Refer to Apollo Eleven as "That guy from the 'Rocky' movies"
   
10. Hog the Tang

posted 09-13-2002 10:13 PM            

Why didn't Buzz simply respond like a civilized person? How was socking the man in the face justified? If Buzz had just placed his hand on the bible and said "Yes" then there would be no problem.

posted 09-13-2002 10:47 PM               

Having said that, I do not want anybody shoving the good book in my face!

Buzz was intimidated by this loser and fed-up with the harassment! He should have followed the jab with a swift uppercut!

posted 09-14-2002 12:33 AM            

He's a nobody. He needs to learn to show a little class, respect his elders, and get a life. Not necessarily in that order.

posted 09-14-2002 02:06 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Tylak:
Am I missing something?

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