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Author
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Topic: Apollo 16 backup crew mission patch?
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LM-12
Member Posts: 3681
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 03-03-2014 08:53 PM
  
Was there an Apollo 16 backup crew patch, or is the backup crew wearing the prime crew patch in this photo? |
randy
Member Posts: 2615
From: West Jordan, Utah USA
Registered: Dec 1999
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posted 03-04-2014 11:47 AM
It sure looks like the prime crew patch, from what I can see. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3681
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 03-04-2014 01:59 PM
Perhaps the backup crew patch had the original design, or a very similar one, with the names changed. |
Besixdouze
Member Posts: 236
From: Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, United Kingdom
Registered: Jan 2011
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posted 03-04-2014 02:33 PM
Check out this link.This gives a good account of the suit worn by Fred Haise which is, most likely, the one he is wearing in this shot. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3681
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 03-04-2014 07:03 PM
Hard to believe that is the same suit, with the Duke name tag and no red stripes. What is the suit number? |
Besixdouze
Member Posts: 236
From: Hebden Bridge, West Yorkshire, United Kingdom
Registered: Jan 2011
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posted 03-05-2014 02:56 AM
On further investigation, the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal gives astronaut Haise two unique suit numbers - 324 for Primary and 305 for Training, neither of which had been used before. Likewise Mitchell with 325 and 321. Roosa has 401 and 085 which he recycled as back-up on Apollo 17 so the mystery deepens. Maybe the crew needed to wear the prime crews suits for this photo opportunity which certainly looks staged. It's a shot I haven't seen before and a higher resolution version would obviously help. Anyone have one? |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3681
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 03-05-2014 07:55 AM
Those look like beta cloth mission patches to me.The crew might very well be wearing the prime suits as you suggest. I don't recall ever seeing Apollo mission patches on the training suits of a backup crew. Had Apollo 19 not been cancelled, I guess it would have been Haise, Pogue and Carr in the photo. |
spaced out
Member Posts: 3187
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 03-05-2014 09:04 AM
I don't seen any reason to suspect that embroidered patches were produced for any backup crews apart from Apollo 14. Or am I missing something? |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3681
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 03-05-2014 10:12 AM
Here is an Apollo 16 training photo of Haise and Mitchell. The name tags on the RCUs are Young and (looks like) Duke. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 49471
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-05-2014 10:19 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Besixdouze:
It's a shot I haven't seen before and a higher resolution version would obviously help. Anyone have one?
Here are the two photos from the sequence as included on Retro Space Images' Apollo 16 disc (click to view in full resolution): 
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Gonzo
Member Posts: 598
From: Holland, MI, USA
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 03-05-2014 03:30 PM
And if you follow the link Mike (besixdouze) gave above, they are clearly beta cloth. And no, I've never heard of any embroidered backup crew patches other than Apollo 14 either.
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Philip
Member Posts: 6182
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 05-22-2014 04:51 AM
Interesting topic with rarely seen photos! |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3681
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 05-23-2014 09:11 AM
The black and white Apollo 16 backup crew photos posted above might have been taken on April 11, 1972. Haise, Roosa and Mitchell were suited up at KSC for CMS/EVA training on that day.Photo 72-H-427 was taken at KSC and is dated April 12, 1972. The prime and backup crews were both suited up for launch/TLI sim training on that day. Young does not have a beta cloth mission patch on his spacesuit, but he does appear to have the design of a four-leaf clover on his suit at waist level. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3681
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 07-31-2015 10:51 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Besixdouze:
Roosa has 401 and 085 which he recycled as back-up on Apollo 17 so the mystery deepens.
In the photo, the NASA logo location on Roosa seems to indicate an A7L suit. The connectors seem to indicate an A7LB suit. Perhaps he is wearing a modified version of his Apollo 14 flight suit (085). |
J.L
Member Posts: 694
From: Bloomington, Illinois, USA
Registered: May 2005
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posted 07-31-2015 11:20 AM
I pulled those images out of the KSC archives over 10 years ago. Been trying to get back in ever since. These shots are a good example of what is still locked away. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3681
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 07-31-2015 11:44 AM
Must be some real gems buried in those archives. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3681
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 07-31-2015 12:15 PM
The National Air and Space Museum has this photo of Roosa's flown Apollo 14 A7L suit. |
mach3valkyrie
Member Posts: 733
From: Albany, Oregon
Registered: Jul 2006
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posted 07-31-2015 12:33 PM
What happened to the Apollo 14 beta cloth patch and NASA beta cloth patch? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 49471
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 07-31-2015 12:43 PM
All of the Apollo astronauts were presented the patches from their suits as a memento. Only Armstrong, Aldrin and Collins declined the offer, wanting to keep the suits from the first moon landing mission intact. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3681
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 07-31-2015 12:52 PM
The National Air and Space Museum photo description does not mention that the suit was modified after the Apollo 14 mission.Roosa's flown Apollo 14 suit is 085. 085 was reused as his Apollo 16 and 17 backup crew training suit. The NASA patch location hints that he is wearing the 085 training suit (and not the 401 primary suit) in the black and white photos. And it seems more likely to me that they would put the Apollo 16 patches on the training suits rather than the primary suits. So I would say that the flown suit in the National Air and Space Museum photo is the same suit that Roosa is wearing in the black and white photos. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3681
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 01-14-2019 08:56 AM
Retro Space Images posted this photo on Facebook yesterday. Apollo 16 countdown test. Take a close look at the emblem on the door.  |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3681
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 01-15-2019 04:25 AM
When was that photo taken?Photo KSC-72PC-0253 shows the Apollo 16 prime crew walkout for the CDDT. The prime crew names are seen on the emblem inside the door. I don't think the backup crew suited up for a countdown demonstration test. |
328KF
Member Posts: 1373
From:
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 01-15-2019 07:57 PM
It looks to me like this was not a professionally made emblem. The lettering is smaller than it should be and it appears that Haise's name doesn't exactly match the curve of the blue ring. Maybe the backup crew (or somebody on their behalf) did this as a "gotcha"? It would make a nice modern replica project though! |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3681
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 01-16-2019 11:58 AM
If the same was done for all the Apollo emblems, then "Haise" would be on three of them: Apollo 8, Apollo 11 and Apollo 16.
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LM-12
Member Posts: 3681
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 08-05-2019 03:30 PM
The Gemini 10 backup crew wore the Gemini 10 patch on their spacesuits. Photo 66-H-972 has this caption: The backup crew for the [NASA] Gemini 10 mission (L-R) Clifton C. Williams, Jr., pilot, and Alan L. Bean, command pilot, are at the White Room level of Complex 19 for a checkout in the Gemini 10 spacecraft. NASA plans a three-day Earth orbital mission for Gemini 10 to rendezvous and dock with the Agena 10 target vehicle. |
mach3valkyrie
Member Posts: 733
From: Albany, Oregon
Registered: Jul 2006
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posted 08-09-2019 11:09 PM
With no names on the Gemini X patch, it was a good fit for the backup crew as well. |
rasorenson
Member Posts: 113
From: Santa Clara, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 2009
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posted 08-11-2019 02:12 PM
This image of the transfer van door is the only time I've seen back up crew names replace the prime crew on a mission emblem (beyond the Apollo 14 variation). The image of the Apollo 8 prime and backup crews shows the backup crew wearing the Apollo 8 emblem containing the prime crew names. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3681
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 08-11-2019 06:11 PM
White Room photos show the Gemini 11 backup crew Armstrong and Anders wearing (on their smocks) larger Gemini 11 patches with their names. |
spaced out
Member Posts: 3187
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 08-12-2019 05:22 AM
Interesting image. To my eye the design looks more hand-drawn than embroidered. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3681
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 08-12-2019 06:51 AM
Spacefacts.de has a Gemini 11 backup crew patch. |
Jacques van Oene
Member Posts: 884
From: Houten, The Netherlands
Registered: Oct 2001
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posted 08-12-2019 08:20 AM
That Gemini 11 back up patch was made by the late Randy Hunt. I have such a patch in my collection as well. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3681
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 08-17-2019 10:13 AM
Photo S65-61837 shows Gemini 7 backup crew Ed White and Michael Collins suited up in the White Room. White's right arm is hidden in the photo, but White and Collins might have been wearing the Gemini 7 patch on their spacesuits.
The Gemini-7 backup crew seen in the White Room atop Pad 19 during Gemini-7 simulation flight activity. McDonnell Aircraft Corporation technicians assist in the exercise. Astronaut Edward H. White II (in foreground) is the Gemini-7 backup crew command pilot; and astronaut Michael Collins (right background) is the backup crew pilot. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3681
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 07-15-2022 09:21 PM
Young and Duke are seen wearing the Apollo 16 mission patch on their spacesuits during training in this 1971 photo. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3681
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 11-01-2022 12:30 AM
This photo is from Fred Haise's website: the Apollo 16 mission patches on the backup crew suits have the backup crew names. |
spaced out
Member Posts: 3187
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 11-04-2022 06:32 AM
Looks like they actually had some beta cloth patches custom made for this.Note that the blue fill behind the backup crew names looks to be darker than that in the rest of the border, and solid rather than patterned.
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KAPTEC
Member Posts: 627
From: Madrid, Spain
Registered: Oct 2005
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posted 11-04-2022 06:57 PM
I absolutely agree with you. What's more... I have nothing clear that it is not a digital forgery. |
J.L
Member Posts: 694
From: Bloomington, Illinois, USA
Registered: May 2005
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posted 11-05-2022 12:14 PM
I sent that color crew photo to Haise a couple of years ago. Looks like he held on to it and used it on his website. I asked him then whether or not any patches had been made, he told me no. |
Henry Heatherbank
Member Posts: 303
From: Adelaide, South Australia
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted 11-05-2022 11:05 PM
quote:
Originally posted by LM-12:
The prime crew names are seen on the emblem inside the door.
I have a feeling this has been covered before, but whatever became of those oversized door decals on the transfers vans? These aren’t the same ones that were installed in the MOCR at the end of the missions were they? They seem too large. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3681
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 11-06-2022 01:26 AM
quote:
Originally posted by J.L:
I asked him then whether or not any patches had been made, he told me no.
So assuming that is an altered photo, has anyone seen the original image with the prime crew names on the mission emblem? |
spaced out
Member Posts: 3187
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 11-06-2022 07:12 AM
Looking at the detail I'd be surprised if the image was retouched to alter the names.It's possible, but the other possibility then is that the alteration may have been done to the beta cloth patches themselves, perhaps with paint? |
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