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Author
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Topic: 'The White Rocket' Apollo patch
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dtemple
Member Posts: 741
From: Longview, Texas, USA
Registered: Apr 2000
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posted 07-30-2004 04:32 PM
   
Can anyone provide the story behind this unusual patch? The patch is based on the Apollo 17 patch, but has a tab at the top that says "Apollo" and in place of the crew names says "The White Rocket." Also, in place of the galaxy and Saturn is a climbing T-38.  |
SXPatches
Member Posts: 34
From: Port Orchard, WA USA
Registered: Jul 2020
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posted 09-11-2020 10:54 PM
Reviving this 2004 thread, "White Rocket" is the astronauts' nickname for the T-38. |
sts205cdr
Member Posts: 658
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted 09-12-2020 12:03 AM
That's one of the nicknames. |
David C
Member Posts: 1156
From: Lausanne
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted 09-12-2020 01:33 PM
Yeah, “the white rocket” is more of a USAF student pilot nickname for the T-38. I think it had a more colorful one inside the astronaut office. Something about legs. |
SXPatches
Member Posts: 34
From: Port Orchard, WA USA
Registered: Jul 2020
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posted 09-13-2020 02:58 PM
Google "white rocket t-38" and you will find numerous articles written about the White Rocket. Before I purchased this patch for myself, I was intrigued by the reference "white rocket." A NASA article implies that due to the color scheme of the NASA T-38 it earned the nickname "white rocket." The origin of the nickname is inconclusive from the articles I have read. If the nickname originated by Air Force pilots, it certainly stuck and was adopted by NASA astronauts, confirmed by the fact that none of the Apollo 17 astronauts were Air Force pilots. This small nimble high-speed jet with its short wing configuration certainly looks like a rocket, especially when seen in a vertical climb, and the NASA paint scheme only makes it look more like a rocket. This plane is iconic and its relationship to NASA and the astronaut corps goes without saying. |
Liembo
Member Posts: 667
From: Bothell, WA
Registered: Jan 2013
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posted 09-13-2020 04:27 PM
Based on appearances, that patch in the original post is of modern manufacture, likely 90s and later. |
SXPatches
Member Posts: 34
From: Port Orchard, WA USA
Registered: Jul 2020
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posted 09-13-2020 05:14 PM
Discovered the same patch on WorthPoint, where it states: This is a vintage United States Air Force Reese Air Force Base Texas Apollo The White Rocket Patch. It measures approx. 3 3/4" by 3 1/2". It came from the estate of Maj. Gen. Walter H. Baxter III. It was removed from a frame of patches. The plaque on the frame read: Maj. Gen. Walter H. Baxter III / Class 87-06 / 2 July 1987 Reese AFB, TX. My patch is very different from these. I will post it soon. |
SXPatches
Member Posts: 34
From: Port Orchard, WA USA
Registered: Jul 2020
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posted 09-13-2020 06:03 PM
Here are the scans of my patch. It is bare cloth back. 
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David C
Member Posts: 1156
From: Lausanne
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted 09-14-2020 01:24 AM
quote:
Originally posted by SXPatches:
Google "white rocket t-38" and you will find numerous articles written about the White Rocket.
Google doesn’t tell you everything, and I don’t really need it because I still have a memory.If you look at the original USAF UPT T-38 scheme you'll see it's white. That's why the NASA scheme of the era was also white. They are USAF jets transferred across with minimum changes, just insignia. So it's actually the USAF UPT scheme. And as Gene Cernan would no doubt have been the first to say: "The Air Force doesn’t have aviators it has pilots." Just sayin'. |
SXPatches
Member Posts: 34
From: Port Orchard, WA USA
Registered: Jul 2020
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posted 09-14-2020 03:48 AM
I'm interested in knowing more about the origin of this patch, if known. The rationale for using the Apollo 17 motif is unclear. The salute to the T-38 and it's relationship to the Apollo program is well understood. The Space Center Houston website offers another possible origin for the "white rocket" nickname. Space Center Houston currently exhibits the Apollo 17 command module and has "Talon Park," and maybe I'm reading too much into this, but Houston, Texas appears to be at the center for this patch. Speculation about this patch is fun, but facts are more fun. |
David C
Member Posts: 1156
From: Lausanne
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted 09-14-2020 05:13 AM
I think you've already got the answer. It's a student course patch. Specifically UPT Class 87-06 out of Reese on the 54th FTS. They're very informal and would have been produced in very small numbers for classmates. The rationale? They liked it. If you want to know more you're going to have to track down a guy who was on that course, and really, you need to find the actual patch designer. It's not space related in any official way. It's just the same as if you or I decided to have a patch made up.Good luck with that! |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 44646
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 09-14-2020 08:53 AM
quote:
Originally posted by SXPatches:
...and has "Talon Park,"
Talon Park was opened in 2005. The Apollo 17 command module went on display when Space Center Houston opened in 1992. Both events postdate known examples of the patch. |
Chariot412
Member Posts: 161
From: Lockport, NY, 14094
Registered: Jun 2011
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posted 09-14-2020 08:53 AM
Good detective work. I was in Class 89-04 at Columbus AFB. We did indeed call the 38 the White Rocket and my first thought was a class patch. Almost every class patch has the class number somewhere on the face. Here's a website to check out. - An Air Force "pilot" |
SXPatches
Member Posts: 34
From: Port Orchard, WA USA
Registered: Jul 2020
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posted 09-14-2020 10:27 AM
I did not know that Air Force training classes had their own patch. I recently became aware of astronaut training class/group patches. Great new information! Thanks. |
SXPatches
Member Posts: 34
From: Port Orchard, WA USA
Registered: Jul 2020
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posted 09-14-2020 12:10 PM
My domain knowledge of armed services practices and conventions is very small. UPT T-38 meant nothing to me, and I only recently became aware of astronaut training class/group patches. I found both "The White Rocket" patches listed on the USAF Flying Training Patches website. If the patches are ordered chronologically, it's possible that the patches were issued in the 1972-73 timeframe around the time of Apollo 17. Very cool!! I sent a message to Jim Flaviani, owner of the site to inquire about the "Apollo - The White Rocket" patches and to gather more information on its age and any history. |
Chariot412
Member Posts: 161
From: Lockport, NY, 14094
Registered: Jun 2011
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posted 09-14-2020 12:49 PM
Each training squadron is broken into several flights of students. While at Undergraduate Pilot Training, the student wears his flight patch on the left arm of the flight-suit and class patch on the right. My T-38 flight was "F" and nicknamed "Falcon". Our patch resembled the Atlanta Falcons football team. Looks like this was the "A" flight with the nickname "Apollo". Hope that helps. |
SXPatches
Member Posts: 34
From: Port Orchard, WA USA
Registered: Jul 2020
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posted 09-14-2020 01:09 PM
So do I understand correct, that the 54 FTS patch is worn on the left shoulder and the UPT T-38 patch is worn on the right shoulder? |
Chariot412
Member Posts: 161
From: Lockport, NY, 14094
Registered: Jun 2011
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posted 09-14-2020 01:37 PM
The 54th FTS is the full T-38 Training Squadron. Flights like Apollo are a sub-set of the entire squadron. At Columbus AFB, we wore our class patch, designed only for us, on one shoulder and our flight patch, worn by every class that ever went through that flight, on the other. |
SXPatches
Member Posts: 34
From: Port Orchard, WA USA
Registered: Jul 2020
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posted 09-14-2020 07:31 PM
Thank you for the referral to the flight training patches website and adding your personal information. Do the classes start with 'A' and progress through 'Z', then repeat? |
David C
Member Posts: 1156
From: Lausanne
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted 09-15-2020 01:15 AM
quote:
Originally posted by SXPatches:
...it's possible that the patches were issued in the 1972-73 timeframe around the time of Apollo 17.
Well that makes a whole lot more sense than 1986. Looks like you are making progress. |
mmcmurrey
Member Posts: 122
From: Austin, TX, USA
Registered: Jun 2012
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posted 09-15-2020 11:18 AM
quote:
Originally posted by SXPatches:
Do the classes start with 'A' and progress through 'Z', then repeat?
UPT classes are numbered ie; 74-04 in my case starting Jan 1973. Usually there were four classes cycling through one year program at different stages of training T-41, T-37, T-38.Air Training Command was the major Air Force command in charge of all training. FTS (Flight Training Sqaudron) was designated under a wing at each training base. The instructors and commanders of each wing and squadron wore official designated patches on their uniforms. Students were not allowed to wear these patches, thus each class designed a "class patch" they were allowed to put on their flight suits. In my case, Laredo AFB closed mid way through my training and my class was divided into smaller groups and sent to a variety of training bases. I wound up finishing at Moody AFB thus I have have two 74-04 class patches. Hope this adds some clarity to your confusion. |
SXPatches
Member Posts: 34
From: Port Orchard, WA USA
Registered: Jul 2020
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posted 09-15-2020 09:42 PM
Yes, this helps clarify matters. Thank you. |
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