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Author
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Topic: Mach 25 patch: collectible or contraband?
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sts205cdr
Member Posts: 505
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted June 26, 2001 09:00 AM
   
Mach 25 patch: collectible or contraband? Also, I've heard that this patch was created by Rick Hauck and is made by AB Emblems. Does anyone have any info on this? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 24665
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted June 26, 2001 12:42 PM
According to "Space Patches: From Mercury to the Space Shuttle" by Judith Kaplan and Robert Muniz, the Mach 25 patch is: ...not available to the general public. Not even all astronauts qualify to wear this patch, since a ride in the Shuttle is a prerequisite to ownership. |
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 1664
From: Toms River, NJ,USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted August 19, 2001 07:51 AM
I have the name somewhere else, but when I bought a Mir program patch from the company that supplied them to the STS-86 and -89 crews, I was also told that Rick Hauck designed the patch, and as such, was a private issue, not a NASA issued patch. |
sts205cdr
Member Posts: 505
From: Sacramento, CA
Registered: Jun 2001
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posted August 20, 2001 02:12 PM
Thanks, Hart, I'm sure it was you who told me about Rick Hauck being the one who originated the patch. |
pokey
Member Posts: 339
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted August 22, 2001 08:13 AM
It probably goes something like just because I bought a Purple Heart medal doesn't mean I earned the right to wear it in its proper context. A rookie is given the Mach 25 patch by their commander after they come back to earth. This usually is done during the Space Center Houston debrief/awards event after each flight. |
erik
New Member Posts:
From:
Registered:
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posted October 21, 2001 12:04 PM
Picked up an original myself at eBay for $75, about two years ago. So never say never, just keep your eyes open. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 24665
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted August 03, 2004 06:18 PM
quote:
Originally posted by sts205cdr:
Also, I've heard that this patch was created by Rick Hauck...
The answer directly from Rick Hauck: "In fact Dan Brandenstein and Jim Buchli deserve that credit." |
keith.wilson
Member Posts: 60
From: South Lanarkshire, Scotland
Registered: Jun 2002
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posted August 06, 2004 04:12 PM
Does anyone have a link to photos of the different Mach 25 patches - I have one but have no idea if it is an original (unlikely I guess) or a replica. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks. |
hoorenz
Member Posts: 588
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted August 07, 2004 05:10 PM
I've posted mine in large format.I believe it is an original, though 'early', because it has very thick, early AB Emblem style thread. Never seen it anywhere else in this form, the Space Realm seen more often version is of 'Taiwan-quality'. I can vaguely remember discussing this patch with another collector some 10 years ago and he told me that another souvenir also existed, cannot remember who this collector was and cannot remember the source of the patch. I DID see a version with a large white outer border (was it you, Hart?), so that probably was the second version he referred to. Donnis Willis also has an original. His is attached to a Overmyer suit he won in an auction, so it is definitely original. I think his patch is a little 'finer' than what you usually see in the NASA pictures, especially in the red embroidery, but is also more heavily used and washed. Since I noticed my patch was a little different, I did some research some time ago using photographs, and believe the patches were made in several batches. A way to see if it was made using at the same artwork, is to look for imperfections. I do see some similarities between Donnis' version and mine - probably they simply used thinner or less red thread, or another machine. I also have a picture somewhere of Randy Wagner's version, I will try to locate it. Must have been 'a couple of computers back', so I will have to dig for it. To round things up: the earliest NASA photograph I have found showing the patch, is Bob Crippen aboard a KC-135 during training for 41G. Next picture I believe is Brandenstein with T-38 training for original 51A or 51D, which later became 51G. So I guess the patch was introduced somewhere in the summer of 1984. Hope this info helps. Oh, and did anyone notice they 'recycled' the image of the STS-2 patch for the shuttle? |
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 1664
From: Toms River, NJ,USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted August 08, 2004 12:44 AM
quote:
Originally posted by hoorenz:
I DID see a version with a large white outer border (was it you, Hart?), so that probably was the second version he referred to.
Unfortunately, with stuff happening - including four moves in the past year - my 25 Mach patch is in storage. If I can get to it, I'll see what it looks like. |
J.L
Member Posts: 295
From: Bloomington, Illinois, USA
Registered: May 2005
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posted March 23, 2011 03:21 PM
Did anyone see the Mach 25 patch on eBay that sold for $405 the other day. It was item 360351875176. My patch consultant tells me it was a reproduction. Any thoughts? |
hoorenz
Member Posts: 588
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted March 23, 2011 03:22 PM
Fake. Produced by Bill Grush of Starrealm. He sold these for 25 dollars in the nineties. |
spaced out
Member Posts: 2355
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted March 23, 2011 04:52 PM
It's be nice to see good images of the replicas alongside the originals so that people can avoid costly mistakes like this one.Is the Mach 25 covered on the Spacepatches.nl website? |
Jacques van Oene
Member Posts: 671
From: Houten, The Netherlands
Registered: Oct 2001
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posted March 24, 2011 03:57 AM
quote:
Originally posted by spaced out:
Is the Mach 25 covered on the Spacepatches.nl website?
No it is not, we should make a page for it.  |
hoorenz
Member Posts: 588
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted March 24, 2011 09:35 AM
I posted mine at Mach25.nl. |
benguttery
Member Posts: 521
From: Fort Worth, TX, USA
Registered: Feb 2005
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posted March 25, 2011 05:20 PM
I was the lucky recipient of this Mach 25 patch. I obviously thought it was good or I would not have bid so much on it. I guess the others 12 bidders thought the same.These were made in such small quantities, there are many different variations. I have images of at least 6 different ones. I'd appreciate seeing the actual one Mr. Grush sold if anyone has access to one. I have asked the seller to provide source information to me. My dilemma will be if it was made by Star Realm and was actually worn by an astronaut. The patch shows signs of having been sewn onto something. |
Kevin T. Randall
Member Posts: 331
From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted March 26, 2011 02:16 AM
I acquired two of these patches in April 1990 when I was at the Space Camp ([Acadamy] for the older ones), in Huntsville Alabama. Mine are slightly different again to hoorenz image and the one you won Ben. They could be one of the other six?If anyone would like an image of mine, e-mail me. |
benguttery
Member Posts: 521
From: Fort Worth, TX, USA
Registered: Feb 2005
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posted March 26, 2011 09:04 AM
I'll put together a few pages of all the images I can collect of the Mach 25 patch. If you have a patch, how about shooting me a picture of it? Thanks. |
benguttery
Member Posts: 521
From: Fort Worth, TX, USA
Registered: Feb 2005
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posted March 28, 2011 05:44 PM
Mach 25 Patch QuestionsEARLIEST IMAGES: The earliest portrait image I've found was of Loren Shriver (NASA Photo ID: S86-36394). Note the blue on his patch is much lighter than later versions. The earliest crew photo I've found that shows the Mach 25 patch is from STS-50 (NASA Photo ID: STS050(S)002) on 25 June 1992. Mission Commander Dick Richards is wearing one above his name plate on his blue flight suit. I expect there are more candid photos out there. What is the earliest image of the Mach 25 patch? SIZE: In the above group photo, the patch looks to be smaller than today's version. Compare it to the size of the 2x4 inch embroidered nametag. Did the size of the patch change at some point? In the earliest images, the patch seems slightly smaller. Why? HISTORY: This patch has been attributed to Hauck, Brandenstein, and Buchli. All these guys are still around. Any thoughts on who best to ask? I'm planning on asking them all. TODAY: Now it's hard to find a crew portrait without a couple astronauts wearing them. There is a group photo of the STS-133 crew in front of T-38s at KSC and they each have a Mach 25 or 100 Days patch. Nicole Stott has both! |
hoorenz
Member Posts: 588
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted March 29, 2011 12:29 AM
Earliest picture: never did a good research, but I remember this as one of the first: S84-37536 (Crippen, July 1984). I believe STS-28 (Shaw, Leestma) already had the patch in the crew portrait.
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benguttery
Member Posts: 521
From: Fort Worth, TX, USA
Registered: Feb 2005
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posted March 29, 2011 09:09 AM
You are right. There is a picture of Crippen while training for STS-41G (S84-37536) from July 16, 1984. The STS-28 Crew picture (S89-29370) shows both Shaw and Leestma wearing their patches. Note that Shaw’s patch appears smaller than Leestma’s. |
JLR1
Member Posts: 25
From: Cincinnati, OH, USA
Registered: Oct 2008
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posted December 20, 2011 08:13 PM
Picked this up recently at an antique mall - I have read earlier posts here regarding 'real vs fake'... would like to hear from the group on what you think about this one.
I have no provenance as it was from a case in a mall where dealers aren't always present.Thanks in advance for your help!  
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Kevin T. Randall
Member Posts: 331
From: High Wycombe, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted December 20, 2011 10:12 PM
Yes, that one looks like a good one to me, a near match to the ones I have, which I know are real.I know Ben is doing a study on these patches and their variants, he will be posting his findings when completed. |
Spaceguy5
Member Posts: 271
From: Pampa, TX, US
Registered: May 2011
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posted March 21, 2012 12:00 AM
Are there any sources for a reasonable reproduction of these? I know there's a company in Malaysia selling reproductions on eBay, but the orbiter artwork is terribly, terribly inaccurate (and painful to look at). |
GoesTo11
Member Posts: 776
From: Denver, CO USA
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted March 21, 2012 12:19 AM
Define "reasonable." There are no licensed reproductions of the Mach 25 patch out there so far as I know, so any reproduction you buy, no matter the accuracy of the artwork, is by definition contraband. If I'm wrong on this, I'm sure I'll be corrected forthwith. |
p51
Member Posts: 331
From: Olympia, WA, USA
Registered: Sep 2011
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posted March 21, 2012 12:35 AM
The good reproductions ARE out there, I just can't give you a vendor. But I know they're out there as I've seen them in the past for sale and not the Malaysian ones. I saw a very good reproduction on eBay about two months or so ago. I regret not bidding for it now... |
Spaceguy5
Member Posts: 271
From: Pampa, TX, US
Registered: May 2011
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posted March 21, 2012 10:18 AM
Reasonable meaning a reproduction that at least resembles the patch. The Malaysian reproduction did a terrible job selecting artwork for the orbiter so it hardly resembles the actual patch. For example, this reproduction does a much better job. You can actually tell it has an orbiter on it.On edit: I see, the Malaysian patch is based off of the image JLR1 posted (above). However they must have just copied the patch into Illustrator and did a Live Trace or something because there's a huge detail loss. Though of course, even the patch in that thread lacks a bit of detail compared to an authentic one, so each time its being copied, detail is lost. |
hoorenz
Member Posts: 588
From: The Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2003
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posted March 21, 2012 12:26 PM
quote:
Originally posted by JLR1:
Picked this up recently at an antique mall...
Looks like the souvenir $25 Bill Grush/Star Realm version to me. |
Spaceguy5
Member Posts: 271
From: Pampa, TX, US
Registered: May 2011
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posted March 21, 2012 01:01 PM
Yeah, it certainly doesn't match authentic ones I've seen in pictures on actual astronauts. The biggest give away is the OMS pod. |
Spaceguy5
Member Posts: 271
From: Pampa, TX, US
Registered: May 2011
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posted March 21, 2012 02:22 PM
I ended up making some artwork in Photoshop (based mainly off the above patch, but with a few fixed details — the lettering plus an orbiter from the STS-2 patch). It still has some imperfections though. My mom owns/sells embroidery equipment so I think I might just try making my own patch. If anyone wants the original Photoshop .PSD, Adobe Illustrator vector artwork, or a .PNG, shoot me an email. On edit: I turned it into vector art and fixed some inaccuracies. |
Gonzo
Member Posts: 115
From: Battle Creek, MI, USA
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted April 04, 2012 11:43 AM
Guys, I've been looking at my collection lately and found my version of this patch. When I bought it in May 1991, I got it from Eagle One Aerospace. I remember getting the letter in the mail from Dan (the owner of E1A) telling me that one of his "buddies", a shuttle pilot, was cleaning his dresser had donated six of them to him. Dan then sent letters to his frequent customers. I was one and bought it the same day via a check and USPS (no email back then). I paid $35 for it. So, here's my question, from what I was told by Dan and where it came from, is it real? |
Spaceguy5
Member Posts: 271
From: Pampa, TX, US
Registered: May 2011
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posted April 04, 2012 12:16 PM
Have you tried comparing it to pictures of the real deal? I think that's the best way to judge. I only know of two reproductions floating around, and one of them is blatantly fake while the other (which is pictured above in JLR1's post) has minor details that are easy to spot if you compare pictures of it side-by-side with pictures of the real patch. |
Gonzo
Member Posts: 115
From: Battle Creek, MI, USA
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted April 04, 2012 01:11 PM
Hence my question. The first pic at the top appears to show an embroidered light blue background. It's kind of hard to tell due to the pic being light. The second set of pics, those that show the front and back, appear to have a cloth light blue background. Mine is embroidered. So, despite the lightness of that first pic, it looks almost identical to that one. It's certainly much more like the first one than the second set. |
Spaceguy5
Member Posts: 271
From: Pampa, TX, US
Registered: May 2011
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posted April 04, 2012 02:18 PM
I'd suggest trying to look for high-resolution pictures of astronauts wearing the patch. Also, here's a pretty good one of the patch on Bob Cenker's flight jacket. |
Gonzo
Member Posts: 115
From: Battle Creek, MI, USA
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted April 04, 2012 02:32 PM
Thanks. Note that in the pic of Bob Cenker you linked, the background is embroidered vs. cloth. The one in the pic set showing the front and back has a cloth background you can use for reference.So, from all I've seen (and considering the documents I have from when I got it), mine should be confirmed to be an original. Cool! Thanks for the good news all! |
Go4Launch
Member Posts: 372
From: Bethesda, MD
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted April 04, 2012 10:22 PM
I would note for the record that Eagle One Aerospace was owned and operated by the late Randy Wagner. I was fairly close to Randy but don't remember a Dan. |
Gonzo
Member Posts: 115
From: Battle Creek, MI, USA
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted April 05, 2012 06:04 AM
I went back and found my records. I bought my patch from Dan Clark who owned/operated Spaceland Enterprises. He lived and ran his company from Merritt Island. Sorry, my previous post was from memory. |
Spaceguy5
Member Posts: 271
From: Pampa, TX, US
Registered: May 2011
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posted May 20, 2012 08:43 AM
Here's my first attempt at making a replica. There were a few design errors (the nose didn't come out quite right, and the fill type on the background doesn't look right), also the embroidery machine, for some reason, stitched part of the blue outline incorrectly. The blues aren't a perfect match, although I already ordered some better thread colors.There's a few things that I purposefully didn't match 100% — mainly the orbiter and the MACH text — as I wouldn't want these to be too indistinguishable from the originals if I decide to share any. |
Jacques van Oene
Member Posts: 671
From: Houten, The Netherlands
Registered: Oct 2001
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posted May 21, 2012 04:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Spaceguy5:
I'd suggest trying to look for high-resolution pictures of astronauts wearing the patch.
Here is the Mach 25 patch on the flight suit of Nicole Stott. Taken this April at KSC. |
Spaceguy5
Member Posts: 271
From: Pampa, TX, US
Registered: May 2011
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posted May 21, 2012 08:05 PM
I wish I would have found that picture sooner, thanks! I haven't had much luck finding high resolution photos. It's a shame that the nose of the orbiter was sewn over while sewing it to her flight suit though. I'm surprised that they were able to get the orbiter's windows in at all considering the very tiny size. |
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