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  Dragon Models' 1:72 Saturn V with Skylab model (Page 1)

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Author Topic:   Dragon Models' 1:72 Saturn V with Skylab model
cspg
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posted 10-31-2013 11:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cspg   Click Here to Email cspg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dragon has announced a 1:72 Saturn V with Skylab model kit.

apolloprojeckt
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posted 10-31-2013 11:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for apolloprojeckt   Click Here to Email apolloprojeckt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That is very nice, but not the ready display version?

Robert Pearlman
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posted 10-31-2013 11:53 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
At this time, it is only available as a model kit.

garyd2831
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posted 10-31-2013 12:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for garyd2831   Click Here to Email garyd2831     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I hope they do come out with a ready made version too. Now if we have put together a 1/72 Saturn IB, we can have the complete series between the recently released Redstone, Atlas, Titan and the re-released shuttle stack.

cspg
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posted 10-31-2013 01:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cspg   Click Here to Email cspg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Atlas and Titan were not released by Dragon.

garyd2831
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posted 10-31-2013 02:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for garyd2831   Click Here to Email garyd2831     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I know, but they are 1/72 scale.

jjknap
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posted 10-31-2013 06:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jjknap   Click Here to Email jjknap     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What would be cool is if they would sell just the Skylab stage for those who have the existing model.

Ronpur
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From: Brandon, Fl
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posted 10-31-2013 06:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ronpur   Click Here to Email Ronpur     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And then the Skylab could be built with arrays and ATM deployed!

Which I would not be surprised to see released. Dragon seams to design their molds for multiple uses.

the clocks running
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posted 10-31-2013 08:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for the clocks running   Click Here to Email the clocks running     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Kudos to the gents that predicted the development and production of this variant of the Saturn V launch vehicle.

I sincerely never thought that Dragon would build this kit.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 11-01-2013 12:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by garyd2831:
I hope they do come out with a ready made version too.
My contact at Dragon tells me that a ready-to-display version is planned, though a release date has yet to be set.

With regards to offering the Skylab stage as a standalone product for those who already own the 1:72 Saturn V, it's not an idea they were originally considering... but they are now.

bdipaolo
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posted 11-01-2013 09:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bdipaolo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Why does it show a third stage with an engine instead of the main body of Skylab (converted 3rd stage)? Where are the side solar arrays (one of which broke off on launch)? Looks like they better do a little more research. What they have there now is just half of Skylab.

cspg
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posted 11-01-2013 11:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cspg   Click Here to Email cspg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
With regards to offering the Skylab stage as a standalone product...
Well, since they're planning ISS model(s) and that their catalog still shows a model of the MIR space station, they might as well come up with a Skylab model that could be fitted in their Saturn V model.

Jay Chladek
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posted 11-03-2013 03:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jay Chladek   Click Here to Email Jay Chladek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bdipaolo:
What they have there now is just half of Skylab.
This is a launch configuration bird anyway. The only arrays we are seeing are the ATM "windmill" arrays up top. The side arrays were completely folded under two booms on the sides of the S-IV Orbital Work Shop section. It was ONE of those which was lost when the micrometeoroid shield came off.

mode1charlie
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posted 11-03-2013 09:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mode1charlie   Click Here to Email mode1charlie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So were the side arrays not visible from the outside?

But unless I'm completely misunderstanding the vehicle configuration, they still need to lose the J-2 engine on the 3rd stage/OWS.

Ronpur
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posted 11-04-2013 09:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ronpur   Click Here to Email Ronpur     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The two booms were very visible on the outside of the workshop. I can't really tell what is in the images of this model. But the J-2 engine is very wrong.

bdipaolo
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posted 11-07-2013 06:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bdipaolo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's what I meant, I don't see the side array booms. This will be worthless if they don't fix these issues.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 11-08-2013 09:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Okay, here's the opportunity: I can't promise that any changes will be made but there may be a window here for this community to help improve this product.

Dragon has asked for more details as to what is/may be wrong with the model.

It's not sufficient to just say "the side array booms" are missing, for example. You have to assume that the recipient won't know anything about the Saturn V or Skylab, so suggested changes should be described in detail, without relying on the understanding of hardware titles.

It would be best if detailed, labeled drawings or photos could be provided.

I'm going to pull together what I can, but those who want to offer their suggestions should e-mail their contributions to me by early next week.

sev8n
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posted 11-08-2013 04:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sev8n     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't see the point in providing a more accurate Skylab/S-IVB if they don't address the existing inaccuracies in the rest of the Saturn V.

This pdf would be a good starting point.

mode1charlie
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posted 11-08-2013 05:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mode1charlie   Click Here to Email mode1charlie     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think Robert was requesting something a little more modest regarding the Skylab design specifically, not a major re-tooling of their existing product.

GACspaceguy
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posted 11-09-2013 04:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for GACspaceguy   Click Here to Email GACspaceguy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Direct them to Pascal and the pics he posted on the Saturn V thread where he converted one to Skylab. Not a major re-tooling would be needed to produce a Workshop version that matches the existing details.

bdipaolo
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posted 11-13-2013 12:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bdipaolo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
I'm going to pull together what I can, but those who want to offer their suggestions should e-mail their contributions to me by early next week.
Robert, I just emailed you a whole bunch of diagrams and photos. The serious errors are quite obvious. At a minimum they need to replace the J-2 engine with the radiator as shown and add the booms covering the solar wings on the side of the lab module. Even better if they could have actual fold-out solar panels under the booms.

X-Plane Fan
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posted 03-29-2014 10:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for X-Plane Fan     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Looks like the Skylab version has just been released. It's shown as in stock at Sprue Brothers and Squadron.

Planetary
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posted 04-03-2014 12:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Planetary     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Has anyone actually seen this kit in shops yet here in the US?

GACspaceguy
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posted 04-03-2014 04:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for GACspaceguy   Click Here to Email GACspaceguy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ordered one from Spruce Brothers, will let you all know what it is like when it gets here.

Planetary
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posted 04-15-2014 05:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Planetary     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I picked up the newly released Dragon Saturn V Skylab kit today. Apparently it's going to be difficult to find as from what I was told, Dragon is doing a drastically smaller run than they did with the Apollo Saturn V kit (or finished model). Dragon's own website is apparently already out of stock.

That said, even among Dragons many accuracy-flawed real space models, this one really stands head and shoulders above the rest as a really terrible kit. Probably the most immediate issue is the obnoxious fact that there is only *half* or one side of the Airlock/Docking Module and ATM is included — that is, you basically get the side that faces the clear half of the shroud. At first I thought my kit was actually missing the other half of the part but no, looking at the directions, this is how it's meant to be. The ATM and Docking/Airlock module are molded as a single nearly featureless (and very inaccurate) part with only a pair (not four) of square parts meant to represent the ATM's folded solar panels and one half of the support truss and one ATM outrigger part (instead of 4).

There are no parts to depict the two stowed Solar Panels on either side of the Workshop and the aft end is indeed the same incredibly inaccurate SIVB Thrust Structure + *very* basic J2 engine parts as the Apollo Saturn V release and as seen in the digital illustrations that preceded the release of this kit. The featureless shroud is molded in two halves, one piece gray plastic, the other clear which has two odd oval "marks" cast in the top of the part which will be tough to sand off. Also, this kit doesn't include the additional ring (w/stringers) that I guess was supposed to be an additional Instrument Unit(?) that goes on top of the SIVB and under the shroud that the Apollo kit had.

So basically, you're getting the same wildly inaccurate Dragon Saturn V kit as the Apollo release but without the Apollo but with a laughably rudimentary Skylab that is impossible to accurize. The best option aside from an incredible amount of scratch building is simply avoiding displaying the inside of the shroud, painting the two shroud halves white to display the kit. Included below are links to a few photos of the instructions and parts.

jjknap
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posted 04-15-2014 09:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jjknap   Click Here to Email jjknap     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How disappointing Thanks for the review/warning.

bdipaolo
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posted 04-16-2014 10:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bdipaolo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hate to say I told you so... but I told you so.

cspg
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posted 04-16-2014 02:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cspg   Click Here to Email cspg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is it released as a smaller run because it's deeply flawed? They certainly need to get their act together.

Planetary
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posted 04-16-2014 07:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Planetary     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think it's simply because Dragon believes (correctly) that the demand is much lower for a $140+ Skylab Saturn V than the same priced Apollo Saturn V.

cspg
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posted 08-05-2014 03:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cspg   Click Here to Email cspg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Dragon Wings Saturn V-Skylab 1:72 pre-built model has been announced! Release date: September.

Docdrew
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posted 08-05-2014 08:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Docdrew   Click Here to Email Docdrew     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just going by the one view it looks like this pre-built suffers from the same "rotational" (and other) inaccuracies as discussed for the Apollo 11 (see sev8n's pdf). And the fins are still white. Dragon doesn't seem able or willing to learn from their past mistakes. How about a boycott of their models until they start doing their homework in order to produce more accurate products. Perhaps we'll see a major retool when the 50th anniversary models come out.

the clocks running
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posted 08-05-2014 08:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for the clocks running   Click Here to Email the clocks running     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I understand your grief but am not at all surprised that Dragon does not retool to correct the inaccuracies in their spacecraft model series.

The expense vs demand to develop and produce these models probably does not allow Dragon the flexibility to retool.

I am just happy to see a hobby company producing any NASA models period.

jjknap
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posted 08-05-2014 09:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jjknap   Click Here to Email jjknap     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am glad they are producing models as I was just complaining that I haven't seen anything new, but wouldn't you think a company would take a few minutes to look at a design before producing a model?

I have the pre-built Saturn V and if they had added a semi-accurate Skylab, I would have purchased this one as well. As it is, I will take a pass on this one.

I would love to see a stand-alone Skylab model. And just in case someone at Dragon is watching this forum, I will save them some research time by providing this tip: Skylab was missing the right hand solar panel on the Orbital Workshop.

sev8n
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posted 08-06-2014 01:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sev8n     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by the clocks running:
The expense vs demand to develop and produce these models probably does not allow Dragon the flexibility to retool.
Whereas the expense to properly research the subject before producing the molds would have been little to no different. David Weeks' excellent Saturn V drawing set is only $60 which would have been amortized over a few thousand kits, a trivial investment.

Planetary
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posted 08-07-2014 04:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Planetary     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sev8n:
David Weeks' excellent Saturn V drawing set is only $60 which would have been amortized over a few thousand kits, a trivial investment.
Looking at the Saturn V kits/pre-builds, I would bet the farm Dragon has a set of Week's drawings as there's some details very specific to the blueprints that Dragon's "designers" attempted to get correct (if in drastically simplified form). The basic flaw in their kits (and all of their 1/72 space kits in general) is in a strange, inconsistent inability to translate the kind of schematics as in Week's blueprints to three dimensional form in addition to an almost toy-like simplification of certain details. An example would be the 1/72 Gemini where the designer actually mistook the thin black stripe patterns as grooves on the white Adapter Sections.

Considering the effort Dragon seemingly put in to getting *some* things right, especially in their various Apollo kits, it's baffling why they got other, very basic details so wrong.

cspg
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posted 08-08-2014 09:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cspg   Click Here to Email cspg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Why not come up with a model at 1:400 like their Apollo 11 Saturn V model?

Robert Pearlman
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posted 08-08-2014 09:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dragon released a 1:400 Saturn V-Skylab in 2010.

cspg
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posted 08-08-2014 10:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cspg   Click Here to Email cspg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have too many models...

the clocks running
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posted 08-08-2014 10:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for the clocks running   Click Here to Email the clocks running     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I own the 1/400 Saturn V/Skylab. It is a very nice model.

sev8n
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posted 08-08-2014 01:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sev8n     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dragon released several iterations of their 1/72 Apollo models (from the IU up) well before the Saturn V was released. Based on the vast difference in accuracy and detail between the two it would seem the Saturn V (and Skylab) was designed by a different group (or budget or direction etc.) than the Apollo kits.


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