Space News
space history and artifacts articles

Messages
space history discussion forums

Sightings
worldwide astronaut appearances

Resources
selected space history documents

Websites
related space history websites

  collectSPACE: Messages
  Models & Toys
  Toys and Models Mercury, Gemini, Saturn rockets

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Toys and Models Mercury, Gemini, Saturn rockets
Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 29215
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 09-10-2013 12:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Toys and Models has announced four new resin composite rocket models:

  • 1:72 Mercury Redstone — 

    NASA modified a Redstone missile and created a 25.5m-long manned space launch vehicle designed to carry astronauts into space. Selected because of its good safety record, it used an upgraded Rocketdyne engine combined with a Mercury spacecraft.

    In late 1960, it only got four inches off the launch pad, but by 31 January 1961, with Ham the Chimp aboard, MR-2 completed a suborbital flight.

    Alan Shepard, the 1st American astronaut, traveled into space on the 3rd Mercury-Redstone mission (MR-3), just 3 weeks after the Russian cosmonaut, Yuri Gagarin, performed the world's first orbital spaceflight. Virgil Grissom aboard blasted off on 21 July later that year.

    The NEW limited edition Mercury Redstone model is the full rocket launch system with the Mercury spacecraft perched atop the launch vehicle. At 1:72 scale, this replica measures 14.38" tall from base to the tip of its escape tower — perfect for desktop display. It is produced from resin composites and hand finished from all new tooling. ($119.95 MSRP)

  • 1:72 Mercury Atlas -

    Atlas, designed to launch payloads into orbit, was first launched by NASA in 1958. It launched the first communications satellite that transmitted President Eisenhower's pre-recorded Christmas speech around the world. For all three robotic lunar exploration programs, Atlas was used, as well as both Mariner and Pioneer planetary probes.

    NASA selected the U.S. Air Force Atlas D intercontinental ballistic missile to be modified into one of the launch vehicles for the first manned spaceflight program, designated the Mercury-Atlas. It was the launch vehicle for the four manned Mercury orbital flights in 1962-1963.

    This is a 1:72 scale model of the Mercury-Atlas launch vehicle, produced by Toys and Models Corporation from resin composites, stands an impressive 16.63" high. ($139.95 MSRP)

  • 1:72 Gemini Titan -

    The Titan II GLV (Gemini Launch Vehicle), or Gemini-Titan II, was an American expendable launch system derived from the Titan II missile. It was the second human spaceflight program of NASA, used to launch twelve Gemini missions for NASA between 1964 and 1966. Two unmanned launches, followed by ten manned ones, were conducted from Launch Complex 19 at the Cape Canaveral Air Force Station, starting with Gemini 1 on 8 April 1964.

    Its objective was to develop space travel techniques in support of Apollo, which had the goal of landing men on the Moon.

    This incredible precision model, at 1:72 scale, towers at 18.5." Crafted from resin composites by Toys and Models, the Gemini Titan Model is finely detailed and is certain to impress anyone who is privileged to own it or view it up close. ($139.95 MSRP)

  • 1:144 Saturn IB -

    The Saturn IB was commissioned by NASA as a launch vehicle for the Apollo program, replacing the S-IV second stage of the Saturn I with more powerful S-IVB. Used for early flight tests (before the larger Saturn V needed for lunar flight was ready), the Saturn 1B was able to launch a partially fueled Apollo Command/Service Module (CSM) or a fully fueled Lunar Module (LM) into low Earth orbit. It launched 2 unmanned CSM suborbital flights, 1 unmanned LM orbital flight, and the first manned CSM orbital mission.

    In 1973, the year after the Apollo lunar program ended, three Apollo CSM/Saturn IBs ferried crews to the Skylab space station. In 1975, one last Apollo/Saturn IB launched the Apollo portion of the joint US-USSR Apollo Soyuz Test Project. A backup Apollo CSM/Saturn IB was assembled and made ready for a Skylab rescue mission but never flown.

    Be a part of history! Purchase this resin composite model, which stands, at 1:144 scale, a staggering 19.5” high, and re-imagine the powerful contribution the Saturn 1B has had on the American Space Program. ($139.95 MSRP)

The new rockets are not yet listed on Toys and Models website but should be soon, as well as available through distributors.

cspg
Member

Posts: 4509
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006

posted 09-10-2013 01:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cspg   Click Here to Email cspg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And their other rockets (Delta 2, IV (medium, heavy) and Atlas V) are at 1:144...

What's the best: plastic, resin or metal?

apolloprojeckt
Member

Posts: 891
From: arnhem netherlands
Registered: Feb 2009

posted 09-10-2013 01:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for apolloprojeckt   Click Here to Email apolloprojeckt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nice models, but why not a whole complete series 1/72. Does why not the Saturn 1B?

onesmallstep
Member

Posts: 644
From: Staten Island, New York USA
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 09-10-2013 02:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for onesmallstep   Click Here to Email onesmallstep     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I guess they stopped at 1:72 scale for the rockets starting with the IB; maybe there's a market for people with limited shelf space and who prefer a smaller display instead of every rocket built 'to scale' for size comparisons. Also, prices are lower.

GACspaceguy
Member

Posts: 1526
From: Guyton, GA
Registered: Jan 2006

posted 09-10-2013 02:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GACspaceguy   Click Here to Email GACspaceguy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Happy to say I had a hand in this. The Saturn 1B became cost prohibitive in the 1/72 scale for the type of models these folks produce.

Jay Chladek
Member

Posts: 2267
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007

posted 09-11-2013 10:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jay Chladek   Click Here to Email Jay Chladek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's just it, when you get to the Saturns, they become an order of magnitude BIGGER than what came before. Just to put it into perspective, the fuel and oxidizer tanks on the Saturn 1B first stage are lengthened Redstone tanks (wrapped around a Juno tank in the middle). That's what gives the 1B its unique first stage appearance.

The Atlas, Titan and Redstone on the otherhand are relatively small since they were all designed as missiles originally and had to have a certain ease of transport, so they couldn't get above a certain size. They are certainly smaller than the Soviet R-7 rocket, which although it was originally intended as an ICBM, it wasn't a very practical one.

bdipaolo
Member

Posts: 20
From:
Registered: Oct 2010

posted 09-13-2013 01:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bdipaolo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sadly, they seem not to have modeled the open exhaust ports in the Titan interstage. Can't really see the main engines in this photo. I have been waiting and waiting for a really accurate 1:72 Titan. None of the kits gets it right. The interstage and the main engine mount seem to be too difficult to model correctly for some reason. Still hoping Dragon will do a (good) 1:72 Gemini-Titan (and Mercury-Atlas).

sobof62
Member

Posts: 28
From: Plymouth, Devon, United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2010

posted 09-16-2013 12:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sobof62   Click Here to Email sobof62     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Am I right in thinking these are finished ready to display models? Could anyone steer me to any suppliers of these models? I live in the UK.

onesmallstep
Member

Posts: 644
From: Staten Island, New York USA
Registered: Nov 2007

posted 09-16-2013 02:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for onesmallstep   Click Here to Email onesmallstep     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes, they are ready-to-display models. You would have to click on the 'find a dealer' or 'contact' button on the website to find any overseas dealers/suppliers directly from them.

GACspaceguy
Member

Posts: 1526
From: Guyton, GA
Registered: Jan 2006

posted 09-16-2013 07:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GACspaceguy   Click Here to Email GACspaceguy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sobof62:
Could anyone steer me to any suppliers of these models? I live in the UK.
I talked to Ed Humphreys, the Sales Manager for Toys and Models. He said that there currently are no distributors in Europe but would like to establish one.

He went on to say, for those on this forum who are outside of the USA, contact him directly via e-mail and he will work with you to keep the shipping costs as low as possible. In his words "he would like to keep those on the cS site happy."

cspg
Member

Posts: 4509
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006

posted 09-17-2013 09:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cspg   Click Here to Email cspg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Available from The Space Store (as a set of four) for $499.

sobof62
Member

Posts: 28
From: Plymouth, Devon, United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2010

posted 09-17-2013 06:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for sobof62   Click Here to Email sobof62     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Again guys thanks for your input, it is much appreciated.

bdipaolo
Member

Posts: 20
From:
Registered: Oct 2010

posted 09-23-2013 10:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bdipaolo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If anyone buys any of these, some detail pictures would be very appreciated.

cspg
Member

Posts: 4509
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006

posted 10-05-2013 10:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for cspg   Click Here to Email cspg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Also available individually.

divemaster
Member

Posts: 1364
From: ridgefield, ct
Registered: May 2002

posted 10-05-2013 03:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for divemaster   Click Here to Email divemaster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bdipaolo:
I have been waiting and waiting for a really accurate 1:72 Titan. None of the kits gets it right.
RealspaceModels.com?

bdipaolo
Member

Posts: 20
From:
Registered: Oct 2010

posted 10-07-2013 05:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bdipaolo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No, the RealSpace Titan's first stage engine mount is pretty poor. That is the most interesting part of the rocket. Nor do they have the second stage engine mount, just a exhaust bell. And I want a separable interstage, not something molded to the 1st stage fuel (oxidizer?) tank.

Jay Chladek
Member

Posts: 2267
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007

posted 10-07-2013 07:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jay Chladek   Click Here to Email Jay Chladek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, that is what kitbashing and scratchbuilding techniques are for. This is something most real space modelers have had to do to overcome kit issues in the past before we had companies like Realspace and New Ware to spoil us.

Plus, a company making a mass produced replica tends to gravitate towards a bigger target audience and typically isn't going to add details like that as they would add a lot of cost to the production of a replica which increases the price and in turn cuts down on the potential buyers.

bdipaolo
Member

Posts: 20
From:
Registered: Oct 2010

posted 10-09-2013 10:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bdipaolo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's why I am hoping Dragon will do a nice Titan 1:72 to go with the Gemini capsule they already have. New Ware's 1/144 Gemini Titan looks very nice, but I want the larger scale.

Jay Chladek
Member

Posts: 2267
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007

posted 10-09-2013 11:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jay Chladek   Click Here to Email Jay Chladek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'll echo that sentiment. I just hope somebody who has the ears of Dragon can bend them a bit as a Titan Gemini would make for a very nice model.

Billy
New Member

Posts: 2
From:
Registered: Jan 2013

posted 01-26-2014 09:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Billy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Does anybody actually own any of these yet?

I'm thinking about purchasing the Atlas and Titan II but I'm a bit hesitant until I see a review.

modelhopper
Member

Posts: 18
From: Herts UK
Registered: Dec 2013

posted 01-28-2014 02:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for modelhopper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I so agree with the observations concerning massed produced replicas. Detail means production costs increase exponentially and so become non-viable. These are toys after all and I do not mean that in a derogatory sense.

But what is the point of the larger scale model unless you get more detail. Is that not the point of having a larger scale. Yes, kitbashing and scratch building are a must if you want the larger scales and believe me you will spend as much time, if not more on the research. That is all part of the fun and you get to know the engineering so much better.

Yes... we are spoiled by companies like New-Ware... thank goodness (their 1/144 Titan is superb).

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 29215
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 01-28-2014 02:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by modelhopper:
But what is the point of the larger scale model unless you get more detail.
How about having a model at all?

There are far many more people who are not model builders who would like to represent rockets such as the Gemini-Titan in their collections or desktop/bookshelf displays, even if the details are not spot-on.

These models are not toys, they are desktop, mass-market displays, which fill a niche outside the model builder community.

cspg
Member

Posts: 4509
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006

posted 01-28-2014 03:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cspg   Click Here to Email cspg     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hey, how do you manage to read my mind from Texas?

modelhopper
Member

Posts: 18
From: Herts UK
Registered: Dec 2013

posted 01-28-2014 03:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for modelhopper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well okay... semantics. I did say, not in a derogatory sense.

Then you will just have to put up with what the manufacturer decides what to produce and this is dictated by profit linked to demand.

Why not have a go and try some modest kitbashing to start... it is great fun and the materials are relatively inexpensive.

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 29215
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 01-28-2014 03:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've tried my hand at modeling; it is not something I have the patience or skill for, and as a result, I end up frustrated rather than having fun.

It's because of that reason that I appreciate any and all efforts by the likes of Dragon, Toys & Models and others to bring ready-to-display models to the market. I'd much rather a built model with flaws (that I can point out to anyone interested, but more often they just elicit enthusiasm) than a closet full of model kit boxes that I'll never be able to assemble, paint or display.

I have a lot of respect for those who can kitbash and envy their model collections.

GACspaceguy
Member

Posts: 1526
From: Guyton, GA
Registered: Jan 2006

posted 01-28-2014 03:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GACspaceguy   Click Here to Email GACspaceguy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
I'd much rather a built model with flaws (that I can point out to anyone interested, but more often they just elicit enthusiasm) than a closet full of model kit boxes that I'll never be able to assemble, paint or display.
I have to agree. I have modest kit building abilities and still would rather have them prebuilt.

datkatz
Member

Posts: 75
From: New York, NY
Registered: Mar 2009

posted 01-28-2014 04:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for datkatz   Click Here to Email datkatz     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's why God gave us Steve Nichols!

GoesTo11
Member

Posts: 1127
From: Denver, CO USA
Registered: Jun 2004

posted 01-28-2014 09:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for GoesTo11   Click Here to Email GoesTo11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not to take this thread too much further afield, but... what Robert said.

I collect and display models of spacecraft (and a few cars and airplanes I love), but I have neither the patience nor the confidence in my 20+ years dormant modelling skills — such as they ever were — to build something I'd be proud to show off, or would admire myself.

With respect to commissioning a build-up by a skilled modeler like one of our supremely talented members here... generally speaking, it's just not worth it to me. I respect and appreciate the dedication of fellow enthusiasts who value nut/bolt-accurate replicas and are willing to pay for such; that's just not where my own priorities are.

modelhopper
Member

Posts: 18
From: Herts UK
Registered: Dec 2013

posted 01-29-2014 03:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for modelhopper     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That you want to represent space engineering in your collections is great... am all for collecting ready built models if that is ones inclination, but one does have to compromise on detail and there is nothing 'wrong' with that.

If you are still determined on the larger scales may I suggest looking at the paper model web sites. There is some extraordinary, amazing art work out there and with a very modest outlay (much of it is free) you could have 1/72 Titan (in paper and card) until a manufactured one comes on the market.

There is a Titan here (you can print it off to any scale you desire) and of course the wonderful AXM site.

Daugherty54
Member

Posts: 309
From: Cabot, Arkansas, USA
Registered: Sep 2010

posted 03-15-2014 07:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daugherty54   Click Here to Email Daugherty54     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I too have tried model building and what I got from it was incredible respect for Pascal Hecker, Steve Nichols and those who have those particular talents. With that said I love these models. I have the SaturnIB and the Gemini Titan.

Retro Rocket
Member

Posts: 277
From: Santa Paula, Ca,. USA
Registered: Dec 2007

posted 03-15-2014 10:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Retro Rocket   Click Here to Email Retro Rocket     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Over the past two years I've gained some interesting insights doing CAD models for kits for one of the model manufacturers.

What I like about this company is the owner in charge of the kit design really wants the end product to be accurate. It doesn't have to be super detailed or have the surgical precision of a Fine Molds kit, but the outer mold line will right. This is done by doing a lot of research, using dimensioned blueprints versus drawings, lots of photos and even measuring the real thing if possible.

This is what it takes to make an accurate model and many times manufacturers can't put in the time, which is too bad. I'm trying to get them to do a 1/32 LEM, and one reason I think ours would be the best would be that I know a bunch of knowledgeable guys here and on other groups who are experts on the LEM, so anything produced would be checked, scrutinized and perfect.

Of course, this really applies to new model kits. The finished diecast/kit market is different in terms of how much fine detail and good quality you can get out of a given production scenario, like China vs. Phillipines vs. USA. Each has it's strengths and weaknesses.

Then there's the collectibles/art market where you'd find commissioned models like Steve's and Pascal's, companies that have an established track record and reputation like Nick Proach and PacMin. That's where you can find quality and accuracy within different price ranges.

I'm kind of rambling here, but what I was trying to say, it takes the same amount of time/money to make an accurate part as it does one that's not.

The effort put on the front end before the tooling is cut or a master part created is what makes a big difference.

bdipaolo
Member

Posts: 20
From:
Registered: Oct 2010

posted 03-20-2014 02:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bdipaolo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If someone would do good CAD models of these boosters we could all have them printed on Shapeways! Come on, I know one of you can do it!

All times are CT (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | The Source for Space History & Artifacts

Copyright 1999-2014 collectSPACE.com All rights reserved.


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47a





advertisement