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Author Topic:   Space model building panel at Spacefest V
Spacefest
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From: Tucson, AZ USA
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posted 09-20-2012 02:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spacefest   Click Here to Email Spacefest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We're having a modeling panel at Spacefest V next May. Five, maybe six panelists and a moderator. Tracy Kornfeld for sure, maybe Nick Proach, Rick Sternbach...

Suggestions welcome on format, panelists, subjects. It will be 1.5 to 2 hours long.

SkyMan1958
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posted 09-20-2012 08:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SkyMan1958   Click Here to Email SkyMan1958     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sounds Great!

arjuna
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posted 09-20-2012 09:49 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Excellent idea.

Jay Chladek
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posted 09-20-2012 11:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jay Chladek   Click Here to Email Jay Chladek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'll be there if Kim wants me. I've been dreaming up subjects worth discussing (as well as building some models).

Daugherty54
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From: Cabot, Arkansas, USA
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posted 09-21-2012 07:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Daugherty54   Click Here to Email Daugherty54     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
History in Miniature, Nichols, does incredible work - He would be a great addition to the panel.

divemaster
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posted 09-22-2012 07:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for divemaster   Click Here to Email divemaster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'll be signing autographs afterwards. Paint pen is extra.

divemaster
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posted 09-22-2012 07:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for divemaster   Click Here to Email divemaster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mike Mackowski (who lives in Gilbert, AZ) wrote the eight definitive books on Space in Miniature. My copies are so dog eared for references.

Spacefest
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posted 09-23-2012 10:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spacefest   Click Here to Email Spacefest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mike works at OSC, right?

arjuna
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posted 09-24-2012 05:44 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It wouldn't be a panel without Mike. A couple of others come to mind as well:

Pete Malaguti does brilliant work and has shared pics of some of his scratch-built cutaways here on cS.

Vincent Meens from France (?) has done several incredible builds, including an absolutely amazing 1:24 LM.

Phil Smith did a fantastic build-up of Atomic City's 1:12 Mercury capsule and I'm sure many others but that's the one that grabbed my attention.

I don't know any of these people personally, only their work via the internet. And I'm sure there are several other extremely talented people without whose presence the panel would be sorely lacking.

Jay Chladek
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From: Bellevue, NE, USA
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posted 09-24-2012 12:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jay Chladek   Click Here to Email Jay Chladek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Considering the panel/seminar was something I pitched to Kim myself a month after Spacefest IV, I've got some ideas. And thank you Kim for deciding to take the risk of including it in the schedule. If he invites me back to work in a similar capacity for Spacefest V as I did at IV, I'll probably be heavily involved in this since it will be my neck on the line. The main thing to keep in mind is even though 1:30 to 2 hours is a lot of time, we can't cover EVERYTHING we might want to as I'm sure there will probably be some questions asked by the audience as well.

My main focus for a panel would be to discuss not so much just the building of models, but rather the advantages and disadvantages of getting into different aspects of modeling, be they collecting contractor models, buying pre-built commercially available stuff (such as the Dragon products), commissioning someone else to build one (such as Nick Proach) or taking the time to build models themselves (plastic and/or model rocket versions). Rick Sternbach certainly can cover the research aspects of it, given his line of high end decal sheets for accurizing as he has done years of photo study on spacecraft markings. Mike Mackowski is also a good possibility as well if his schedule allows. But model building is but only ONE facet of what I would like to see covered in a field which has become more relevant recently as more companies produce models and/or offer them for sale. But, not everybody who is into space collecting or has an interest in the space program necessarily has the talents or skills to build the high end pieces. Sure, it can come with practice, but we each have our own gifts and focus on different things. It is no different than the reasons why some people can play a concert piano at an orchestra level while most others can't, yet still have potentially just as much knowledge about the music being played.

Other topics I wouldn't mind seeing covered in such a panel would be budgeting for it, care and feeding of such models as people may consider them investments and they want to protect them, plus insuring their "investment". That isn't something builders of models think about as we just build commercially available kits for the most part (some better than others depending on the subject). But, my own talents are getting to the point as I know some of the things I've built might potentially be worth something IF they were to come up for sale (not likely). So I would like this first panel to be a broad coverage rather than focusing JUST on kit building. If it becomes a big draw, then we can adjust the focus as time goes on to the topics that people want to see more of down the road.

ilbasso
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posted 09-24-2012 01:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ilbasso   Click Here to Email ilbasso     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sounds outstanding!

The insurance topic is a good one to consider, and I would be very interested to hear what the panel says. I spent the better part of a year building one of the Polar Lights 1/350 scale Enterprise starships, with all kinds of custom lighting that I designed and installed myself. Two weeks after I finished it, a fellow from a carpet cleaning service knocked it off my desk and broke it beyond my ability to repair it. The cost of the materials (kit + LEDs) would in no way have approached the "real value" of the model.

Retro Rocket
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posted 09-24-2012 03:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Retro Rocket   Click Here to Email Retro Rocket     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I don't know if I'd be able to make it but would there be any interest in Rapid Prototyping for models? I would cover all aspects from how it's done to how a regular modeller with average skills can have a part created without too much time or expense.

divemaster
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posted 09-24-2012 11:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for divemaster   Click Here to Email divemaster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
We all get a little crazy with our builds. What's really important is to explain that there's nothing wrong with just building something directly out of the box. that it's fun for all ages. Then discussing working with various materials from styrene to resin to brass, etc. The most important thing is not to be afraid to make a mistake. Nine times out of 10, you can fix it yourself or you can start all over again. I have to admit that I've come up with some pretty creative fixes from things I've botched over the years.

My next big learning experience (after 40 years) is to learn to work with MonoKote instead of painting solar panels and how to effectively light the inside of certain models. I plan on making plenty of mistakes and learn by them.

From this area alone, I've become inspired to make a display of 1/72 manned US launch vehicles (which means I actually have to build the BIG shuttle kit). There's so much that can be discussed.

How to unstick your fingers while working with CA should be the top of the list, though.

ilbasso
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posted 09-25-2012 08:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ilbasso   Click Here to Email ilbasso     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Perhaps we can also have a workshop on our favorite profanities to utter when building models! And a Murphy's Law compendium of all the bizarre things that have happened with this "relaxing" hobby.

mercsim
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posted 09-25-2012 10:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mercsim   Click Here to Email mercsim     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think divemaster and Retro have some good points, particularly about average modelers. Mike M. and the others are world class builders that can spend years building one model. There is another whole aspect of space modeling that can really speak to a wide variety of modelers, especially those on a budget or those looking for quick results.

Paper or card modeling is another fascinating aspect of Space Modeling. Many of us, myself included, look at models by Mackowski, Proach, and others and think we just don't have the patience or dedication to spend the time it takes to create such a masterpiece. But using simple Card stock, a printer, and a bit of Elmers glue, we can quickly produce a nice model to put on our desk or get a better visualization of what the ship really was like. There are many paper models that just don't exist in the plastic modeling world. Its also easier to re-scale them to fit into a particular collection size.

When the Ares 1-X mission got delayed, I took the time to go on the Internet and find a card model. I built it while waiting for the countdown to resume. Now this simple, yet elegant model sits in my collection. Every time I look at it I think of that day. It reminds me of a very cool and unique mission and what I was doing when it flew.

I don't know if its worthy of discussion in the same forum with guys like Mike and Nick but its a great way to spark the interest in young modelers. Maybe we can talk to Kim about some booth space to show off some paper Space models.

Retro Rocket
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posted 09-25-2012 02:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Retro Rocket   Click Here to Email Retro Rocket     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think if people could see what paper can do, I think a lot more would try it. It's probably the most affordable modelling hobby there is.

divemaster
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posted 09-25-2012 08:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for divemaster   Click Here to Email divemaster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And I am a horrible modeler when it comes to card stock. More than horrible. However, I love the unforgiving medium of resin and photo-etch brass.

But sometimes there's just the fun of building one straight out of the box - and we've lost a lot of that over the years especially since the internet has given us access to so much material.

There are plenty of us (and, yes, I'm including myself) who have spent well over a year working on a model (on and off). As I wrote in an article for cS several years ago, it's a passion. It's also a lot of fun.

Cursing is part of the building process. So is bleeding. So is doing the the painting in the direct opposite order that you should have done. But it's just so much fun. And there's nothing wrong with building something right out of the box. I'd like to do a lot more of that.

Jerry Brouillette
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posted 09-25-2012 09:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jerry Brouillette   Click Here to Email Jerry Brouillette     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great topic for Spacefest V. Sure would like to attend, never have (I'm sure there are a few others as well), I hope someone can take a few photos or video to share.

It's important to remember to BUILD, with all the superb modelers out there and the fine examples of their work seen on several posts, you can still build a pretty nice model 'out of the box' with a little research, tools and time.

Appreciate what your building and it will come out a treasure.

divemaster
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posted 09-26-2012 01:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for divemaster   Click Here to Email divemaster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You know those very annoying greeting cards with the sound chip in them? They're dirt cheap on eBay and can really enhance you model. I can already hear HAL in a future build. Looks like the come anywhere from 10 seconds to 240 seconds.

Jay Chladek
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From: Bellevue, NE, USA
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posted 09-26-2012 09:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jay Chladek   Click Here to Email Jay Chladek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mike Mackowski is pretty well versed on card models himself as he has done some. Plus, most of us who have done card models have had experience in using the paper templates to help make them in plastic with sheet styrene instead.

Paper models also dovetail nicely into model rocketry, which is another aspect I wouldn't mind covering if there were time in a panel. It is almost the perfect blending of paper modeling with rolling transitions and the use of cardstock for tubes while combining it with more traditional model building techniques. I've been working for the past few months on a Semroc 1/70 Saturn 1B and I have to say, the work needed to make it on par to something in plastic requires quite a bit of skill to pull off. It has been a challenge, but I have enjoyed every minute of it.

I've also been toying with kitbashing a flyable Titan II launch vehicle with my Dragon 1/72 Gemini capsule, using an Estes BT-60 tube for the body. So far, it is coming along rather well.

mjmackowski
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posted 09-26-2012 09:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mjmackowski   Click Here to Email mjmackowski     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just was informed about this discussion. I'd be honored and happy to participate, perhaps even moderate.

I live near Phoenix and work at Orbital Sciences, where we build satellites for NASA (and other customers). I publish the Space In Miniature series and have built and designed several paper models. The subject matter could be wide open. I particularly would like to emphasize the "fun" aspects. Just build for yourself and not for contests.

My motto: Better to be perfectly done than done perfectly.

divemaster
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posted 09-27-2012 01:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for divemaster   Click Here to Email divemaster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And I'll plug Mike's "Space in Miniature" books. Best references for real space model building out there.

apolloprojeckt
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posted 09-27-2012 02:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for apolloprojeckt   Click Here to Email apolloprojeckt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Spoken over about perfectly! Don't forget this master builder: Ben Guenther — such incredible detail!

mercsim
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posted 09-27-2012 09:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mercsim   Click Here to Email mercsim     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Welcome Mike! I too second his SIM series. They are excellent and affordable modeling references. He would be a great panel member or moderator. His knowledge of all our space programs and experience in all aspects of modeling make him an excellent candidate.

spacemodel
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posted 09-29-2012 11:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spacemodel   Click Here to Email spacemodel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nick Proach here.

I happen to be checking out various posts and came across this idea of a space modelling panel at Spacefest V and saw my name mentioned as a possible panel member.

I would be pleased to be a member of the panel and with all my experience over the last 43 years as a space modeller, I can certainly make a great contribution.

Please count me in. It would be an honor.

Spacefest
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posted 09-29-2012 05:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spacefest   Click Here to Email Spacefest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I submit that we morph this panel into a hands-on workshop, and devote some more time to it.

Jay Chladek
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posted 10-01-2012 01:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jay Chladek   Click Here to Email Jay Chladek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hands on workshop? Interesting idea. It might make packing of some items for Spacefest a little interesting since I have to travel by air, but I would be up for that. I've already been pondering some small/lightweight projects to bring for display.

How about perhaps a panel along the lines of what I suggested before (for those who aren't necessarily into the model building side, but want to get into model collecting/building) followed by a hands on workshop? I know it would mean budgeting another hour to the schedule, but that way more could be accomodated who just want to attend the talks and the Q&A could see it first, then move on to their next events while the hands on would be for those who brought projects to learn more about how to potentially build them better?

Reason I suggest that is a "hands on" workshop tends to work better with a tighter focus on smaller groups as we don't necessarily know going in what the experience level of each modeler is. So some want to know just how to assemble their kits properly while others want to know about how to apply foil to LMs and the like (as a hypothetical example). That way I think we could accomodate both audiences better potentially. Plus, there are a few levels of "hands on". Kit assembly and seam cleanup doesn't require much room proofing. But if it gets into painting and the like, that will likely mean plastic wrap on the floors and tables to keep spills from wrecking the hotel carpet and a certain minimum amount of equipment to potentially provide. Set up and tear down for that aspect will also be factors to (recalling what had to be done for similar events I was involved in at both Wonderfest and IPMS Nationals).

history in miniature
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posted 10-01-2012 05:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for history in miniature   Click Here to Email history in miniature     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Any thoughts on figure painting and construction.

divemaster
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posted 10-01-2012 07:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for divemaster   Click Here to Email divemaster     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The last time I did something with a model for Apollo 13's 31st anniversary in AZ, I shipped everything to Tucson — along with a repair kit (which was needed).

Most everything needed to do a decent building demo are probably on the TSA do not fly list and I wouldn't risk carrying anything but plastic. Paints are all flammable and toxic, so is CA, files, hobby knives, and (gasp) sandpaper and putty!!! Forget about ever flying again.

And what if the seats come loose?

But it could be done if you ship everything in advance and back again — depending on what you're bringing. I wouldn't want to fly with anything in this day and age.

Jay Chladek
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From: Bellevue, NE, USA
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posted 10-02-2012 03:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jay Chladek   Click Here to Email Jay Chladek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, it does seem as though it might be best to table "hands on" for now. I've got some friends in the area I could liason with for a "repair kit" if one is needed. I still think if this is approached as a "primer" to newcomers to the hobby for this first year to see how the topic is received, we will be in good shape. After, a model clinic as it were could be hosted where people could discuss problems in a more one on one setting, but considering many of the attendees to Spacefest are going to be travelling to the site from very diverse parts of the globe, I don't see many model projects getting packed in luggage (unless they are getting them signed by astronauts at least).

In my case if I bring any visual aids (i.e. model projects), I've gotten pretty good at packing them in my luggage to prevent (or at least minimize) damage. Plus, a Gemini Titan has a few less things protruding from it than say a 1/72 LM. But both can be packed safely if one knows what they are doing as I did succeed in transporting a 1/144 shuttle stack by air in my luggage to and from Atlanta, Phoenix and London England with the only damage coming from the Atlanta trip (which I fixed and beefed up the weak areas after that happened so they wouldn't break again).

Spacefest
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posted 10-03-2012 01:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Spacefest   Click Here to Email Spacefest     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You can always send them here to the gallery

Jay Chladek
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posted 10-05-2012 06:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Jay Chladek   Click Here to Email Jay Chladek     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good point. I might do that for one project if I can get it finished in time (a 1/70 Saturn 1B model). We shall see.

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