Author
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Topic: Apollo recovery teams taking souvenirs
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holcombeyates Member Posts: 264 From: UK Registered: Dec 2010
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posted 06-09-2020 06:37 AM
Can anyone advise on the stories of recovery divers and other members of Apollo recovery crews acquiring souvenirs during the recovery of Apollo crews? I guess this would have been a very human thing to do being so close to history. |
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 44152 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 06-09-2020 05:39 PM
Many of the loose (or taped to cards) kapton, parachute cord and heat shield samples that first came to market were certified by members of the Apollo recovery teams who had collected the items themselves. People such as Ossie Reid and Robert Miner.NASA didn't approve of the practice of taking souvenirs, as a 1969 memo written by Jim McDivitt in his capacity as the Apollo spacecraft program manager explained: ...these removals have included stripping of small pieces of the kapton thermal coating and removal of the command module nameplates. These removals have occurred during the recovery and return to North American and during postflight testing.I would like to point out to all personnel concerned that this unauthorized removal of equipment, no matter how small it may seem, constitutes a violation of our responsibility. |
Tom Dahl Member Posts: 34 From: MA, USA Registered: Jan 2012
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posted 06-09-2020 06:14 PM
The book "Moon Men Return: USS Hornet and the Recovery of the Apollo 11 Astronauts" by Scott W. Carmichael [2010] talks about material removed from the Apollo 11 Command Module. A quote from page 217: FRIDAY, 25 July 1969Friday was spent by many men on board Hornet securing mementos of the trip. The ship was scheduled to arrive at Pearl Harbor in the morning, next day, so little time remained for bartering. One item of particular value was kapton foil from Columbia. ETR3 [Electronics Technician (radar), Petty Officer 3rd Class] Dennis R. Moran recalled that sailors would double-team the USMC guards posted around the CM. While one or more sailors distracted a guard by engaging him in conversations, other sailors would sneak inside the painted security line to strip small sections of kapton foil from the module. Of course, USMC guards were in the best position to collect such mementos from the CM. Commander Lamb, the executive officer of Hornet, recalled that his orderly happened to be a member of Hornet's MARDET [Marine Detachment]. One morning, his orderly presented to Commander Lamb a gift - not only a section of kapton foil from the module, but a small screw from the side crew hatch. The module was constructed of some three million parts. Guards apparently imagined that a minor disassembly of the CM itself, then, would hardly be noticed. And they were correct. No one from NASA ever called them to account for the missing parts. |
Mike Dixon Member Posts: 1457 From: Kew, Victoria, Australia Registered: May 2003
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posted 06-09-2020 07:58 PM
One can only imagine the temptations. |
kosmo Member Posts: 417 From: Registered: Sep 2001
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posted 06-11-2020 04:04 PM
This was probably quite common. I posted some photos of items I acquired from the collection of ABC tv producer Ron Ogle and he even managed to collect kapton samples of Apollo 8 and Apollo 11. |
Spacepsycho Member Posts: 825 From: Huntington Beach, Calif. Registered: Aug 2004
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posted 06-21-2020 02:07 PM
I've purchased many pieces of kapton foil and small bits of heatshield material taken by Marines, sailors, UDT divers and even the sailor who drove the mule with Apollo 11 in tow to the hanger deck. Another sailor I purchased a large piece of Apollo 11 kapton from was the Quartermaster on the Hornet and he traded a large inflatable raft for it.Another guy I purchased a few large pieces of Apollo 15 kapton from told me how he was at a Honolulu bar drinking when he met a few of the UDT guys from the recovery team. They took him aboard the carrier, showed him the spacecraft tucked away in the corner with one USMC guard who said nothing and they allowed him to remove the foil. As he left the ship, one of the UDT divers handed him an Apollo 15 Zippo lighter presented to the team and he said, "I don't smoke, it's yours of you want it." It's still unused in the box. Many people, including those from NASA, NAA and contractors aboard the recovery ships took pieces off of every spacecraft. I've spoken to quite a few people who worked at NAA in Downey and they showed me or sold me many pieces taken from every spacecraft returned for processing. Don't forget that NASA and NAA also took hundreds of post flight pieces from every spacecraft to make lucite and resin awards. The problem I see is that some of these flown pieces passed down without provenance, their history is lost due to lack of documentation from those who collected them. In many cases the families don't care about these items, so they give them away to throw them in the garbage. |
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 44152 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 06-21-2020 02:25 PM
The souvenirs taken during the recovery of the Apollo 11 command module, and to a lesser extent the Apollo 12 and Apollo 14 spacecraft, no doubt happened, but seem at odds with the precautions NASA was taking to quarantine the crew and equipment.Of course, the concern was what was inside the command modules rather than their exteriors, but one would have thought access to the spacecraft would have been more carefully controlled given the carefully planned handling processes that NASA put into place. |
Spacepsycho Member Posts: 825 From: Huntington Beach, Calif. Registered: Aug 2004
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posted 06-21-2020 03:30 PM
If I remember correctly, the Apollo 11, 12 and 14 command modules were hermetically sealed after the safing process by NAA techs. They had to go into the crew cabin and remove the pyrotechnic devices, then threw them overboard. Did any of the techs who were in those spacecraft go into quarantine with the crew? Did any of the UDT crews have to go into quarantine? |
SpaceAholic Member Posts: 4552 From: Sierra Vista, Arizona Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 06-21-2020 04:08 PM
What pyro devices were internally mounted in the CM? |
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 44152 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 06-21-2020 04:29 PM
John Hirasaki was the only engineer to work on Columbia while at sea and in quarantine. He was the only technician quarantined with the Apollo 11 crew. Hirasaki entered Columbia while still at sea not to remove pyrotechnic devices, but to retrieve the moon rocks. From his NASA oral history: Anyhow, first things they wanted out was the lunar samples ... Anyhow, having removed the lunar sample turn container from the spacecraft, I brought it in, double vacuum-packed it, put it through the lock, and sent it outside.In the meantime, I proceeded to go ahead and get the other items out of there, the film canisters and things like that nature. The UDT crew members were not quarantined with the crew. Only one, Clancy Hatleberg, wore a biological isolation garment and provided the same to the crew. After the astronauts were out of Columbia, he sprayed down the suits and the spacecraft with disinfectant. According to an Associated Press interview with him, his own suit ended up at the bottom of the ocean. |
thisismills Member Posts: 324 From: Michigan Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 06-29-2020 07:13 PM
Two photos of the Apollo 10 command module post-flight with "Please Hands Off" signs. Would guess by the large amount of kapton thermal coating remaining on the spacecraft, these were taken not long after recovery.
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SpaceAholic Member Posts: 4552 From: Sierra Vista, Arizona Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 06-29-2020 07:38 PM
Majority stripped off when returned to Downey for post-flight inspection. |