posted May 26, 2011 08:55 AM               

NASA busts woman selling $1.7M moon rock

A woman's attempt to sell a purported $1.7 million moon rock was thwarted last week when the buyer she met with turned out to be an undercover agent working for NASA.

The sting, which according to the Riverside County (Calif.) Sheriff's Dept. came after several months of investigation, took place at a Denny's restaurant in Lake Elsinore, Calif., about 70 miles southeast of Los Angeles.

The woman, who authorities did not identify, was detained but not arrested pending the "moon rock" being verified as being of lunar origin...

posted May 26, 2011 10:17 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Tykeanaut:
Didn't realise a woman had been to the moon?

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posted October 24, 2011 11:05 AM               

Five months after NASA investigators and local agents swooped into the restaurant and hailed their operation as a cautionary tale for anyone trying to sell national treasure, no charges have been filed, NASA isn't talking and the case appears stalled.

The target, Joann Davis, a grandmother who says she was trying to raise money for her sick son, asserts the lunar material was rightfully hers, having been given to her space-engineer husband by Neil Armstrong in the 1970s.

"It's a very upsetting thing," Davis told The Associated Press. "It's very detrimental, very humiliating, all of it a lie."

...Davis told AP [the moon rock was] among many of the space-related heirlooms her husband left her when he died in 1986. She said she had worked as a lexicographer and he had worked as an engineer for North American Rockwell, which contracted for NASA during the Apollo era.

Davis claims Armstrong gave the items to her husband, though the affidavit says the first man on the moon has previously told investigators he never gave or sold lunar material to anyone.

In follow-up phone conversations with a NASA agent, Davis acknowledged the rock was not sellable on the open market and fretted about an agent knocking on her door and taking the material, which she was willing to sell for "big money underground."

"She must know that this is a questionable transaction because she used the term `black market,'" Agent Conley states in the search warrant.

posted October 24, 2011 12:55 PM               

Credit: U.S. District Court for the Central District of California

Above: This image displayed on a search warrant provided by the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California shows a very small piece of moon rock, center, taken from Joann Davis during a sting operation where NASA investigators and local agents swooped into a Denny's restaurant to detain Davis, trying to sell a moon rock. (AP)

posted October 24, 2011 02:04 PM               

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Originally posted by Spacepsycho:
Do you have a link to the NASA law that specifically addresses the illegality of anyone owning lunar material brought back from the Apollo missions?

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The statute is broad, covering many types of theft: outright stealing, embezzlement, receiving of stolen goods as well as pilfering. It covers anything of value to the United States or any of its agencies. If the federal government can prove that a moon rock was knowingly converted to an unauthorized use or sold to another without authority, the statute is violated. Assuming the value of the lunar material is in excess of $1,000, the violation is a felony.

Several local police officers and NASA OIG agents then moved in on the suspect, took possession of the alleged moon rock and detained the woman for questioning.

posted October 24, 2011 02:09 PM               

This image displayed on a search warrant provided by the U.S. District Court for the Central District of California shows a very small piece of moon rock...

posted October 24, 2011 02:17 PM               

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Originally posted by Fezman92:
That is really small. How could someone not lose it?

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According to the original article, it's encased within an acrylic.

posted October 24, 2011 05:32 PM               

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Originally posted by ilbasso:
Had to laugh that this attempted $1.7 million transaction took place in a Denny's.

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posted October 24, 2011 05:34 PM               

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Originally posted by MrSpace86:
I am also curious as to how many of those lunar pieces exist. If it is in some sort of acrylic, sure there may be more as NASA knew what it was.

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When the alleged moon fleck was first seized, NASA acknowledged that it needed to be tested.

posted October 24, 2011 06:11 PM               

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Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
This could be a one-off piece.

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posted October 24, 2011 11:39 PM               

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Originally posted by Spacepsycho:
It seems a bit excessive to use a SWAT team to arrest a 74 year old woman and it's not like she was Al-Queda or selling nuclear material for a dirty bomb.

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posted October 25, 2011 03:25 AM               

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Originally posted by Bill Hunt:
Doesn't the U.S. Government and law enforcement agencies have ANYTHING better to be doing with their time?

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If that account is accurate, then she admitted knowledge of the law and a desire to circumvent it.

quote:

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Originally posted by p51:
...a SWAT team is probably a good response to something like this

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posted October 25, 2011 10:25 AM               

If it is real and she came by it legally, then yes there is a bit of overreaction. The problem is that if it is real, there is no precedence in a person owning a bit of moon rock that was not gifted to another country. While some allege that some rocks were given as presentations, NASA says no, and none of these have surfaced. If Neil Armstrong did indeed give the rock to her husband (which I strongly doubt), and he wishes to acknowledge it, he will have to explain how he came to be in possession of it.

posted October 25, 2011 11:50 AM            

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Originally posted by fredtrav:
If a person created and sold you a fake Apollo 11 signed crew portrait for $6,000, for example, you would want the help of someone in law enforcement to stop that person from selling other fakes he created as well as getting your money back.

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Poor analogy. There are ways to authenticate signatures and photographs. Anyone buying a rock that is claimed to be form the moon is obviously buyer beware.

This simply comes across as an overreaction to something minor that is typical of the government (and NASA?).

If there were a many people involved in this matter as claimed, just what is the total government cost to pursue this?

Waste of time and money and further tarnishing of NASA.

posted October 25, 2011 12:45 PM               

I can't tell you how many times I've told people their Armstrong signed pieces are Autopenned only to be told that it's impossible because their husband/father who worked at NASA met Armstrong who signed it in front of him.

posted October 25, 2011 01:03 PM               

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Originally posted by jimsz:
Poor analogy.

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A moon rock is also able to be authenticated. A bit more trouble to be sure, and I agree anyone who buys one from a woman who got it from someone etc. is a moron but it is still against the law to dupe a moron out of $1.7 million.

posted October 26, 2011 11:41 AM               

I'm not saying that Apollo lunar rocks should be taken out of the lab safes and distributed, but if a small moon rock(s) were put in resin/lucite and gifted by NASA, shouldn't they remain as private property? It seems to me the federal statue everyone is quoting, doesn't cover an item that was "legally" gifted, but pertains to things intentionally misappropriated.

My real concern is the NASA OIG is using a nebulous and intentionally vague law, that has no scope or focus, in order to confiscate anything they deem "illegal", when in fact it was legally obtained back in the day.

As you're well aware, there were many thousands of artifacts from every program that were thrown out, scrapped without paperwork, given away and legally taken by workers and management. Who's to say that these workers stole or were given or took things out of the dumpster, did so with the intent of defrauding or ripping off the government? Back in the day, nobody cared about these pieces, they were expendable and if taken home by a worker, was a reminder of their devotion and hard work.

From what I've seen, thank God these workers took pieces home when the programs were cancelled, because there are so many artifacts that would have ended up in the dump. I've spoken to so many guys who've told stories about tons of hardware that was thrown in the garbage. They asked managers if they could have a piece or two and were told "take whatever you want, it's all going in the garbage".

posted October 26, 2011 11:55 AM               

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Originally posted by Spacepsycho:
What would your position be if it was discovered that Apollo lunar material was gifted to individuals by NASA in the 70's?

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posted October 26, 2011 12:14 PM               

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Originally posted by Spacepsycho:
I'm not saying that Apollo lunar rocks should be taken out of the lab safes and distributed, but if a small moon rock(s) were put in resin/lucite and gifted by NASA, shouldn't they remain as private property?

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NASA created certificates to present flags, patches, flown hardware, medallions and more. There are memos in the archives today that discuss the creation and distribution of these mementos. Why would NASA have acted any differently when it came to lunar material?