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  NASA "Silver Snoopy" award flown lapel pins (Page 1)

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Author Topic:   NASA "Silver Snoopy" award flown lapel pins
BMckay
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posted 10-22-2008 10:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BMckay   Click Here to Email BMckay     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am helping a gentlemen who worked in Burlington, MA for RCA during the Apollo program up to around the early 70's. He was awarded a Silver Snoopy for work on the Landing Radar but can't find any of the certificates or pictures to help tell when he received it. I did see a picture of Jim Irwin presenting it to a group but their was no date on it.

So can anyone help out and give me some history on the Silver Snoopy so I can help this gentlemen? Maybe if we can get a time table he can find his supporting documents.

That is a neat little pin!

spaced out
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posted 10-22-2008 10:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Send me an e-mail with the guy's name and I'll check it against a list I have. It's not exhaustive but you may be lucky.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 10-22-2008 10:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
NASA also maintains an online database that includes Silver Snoopy awards that were presented at the time of Apollo (for example, there are 358 records for Silver Snoopys awarded between January 1, 1968 and January 1, 1973).

spaced out
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posted 10-22-2008 11:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's the list I have a copy of, and unfortunately the name doesn't appear there. I believe the list is far from exhaustive.

willisdj
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posted 12-29-2008 03:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for willisdj   Click Here to Email willisdj     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have recently obtained a Silver Snoopy pin with no paperwork, but I'm fairly sure who it was awarded to and when (late 60's - early 70's). However, with no paperwork or certificate, there is no way of knowing what flight it was flown on (they were all flown?). Is the any reference or database out there with that kind of information? Thanks in advance.

Editor's note: Threads merged.

wmk
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posted 12-31-2008 09:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for wmk   Click Here to Email wmk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I recently acquired a Silver Snoopy pin from the personal collection of Jim McDivitt (see photo below).

I'd like to know if there are there different versions of these pins or have they remained the same over the years? Is there anyway to determine what time period a particular Snoopy pin is from (without any paper work or recipient's name)? Were all of them flown? Were any flown during Apollo?

Robert Pearlman
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posted 12-31-2008 09:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Answering your questions in reverse order:

Were any flown during Apollo?

Apollo 7 was the first mission to fly Silver Snoopy pins and all subsequent missions flew them.

Were all of them flown?

I can't speak to the Apollo era, but I am told by Silver Snoopy recipients today that if you lose your original pin, which was flown, it is replaced with a pin that was not flown. In other words, all pins as first presented were flown.

Is there anyway to determine what time period a particular Snoopy pin is from (without any paper work or recipient's name)?

Not to my knowledge, but I haven't had an opportunity to compare an Apollo era pin with a shuttle one.

mickapp
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posted 03-27-2009 11:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mickapp   Click Here to Email mickapp     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am the proud recepient of a Silver Snoopy Award given to me by Al Worden and was told that it could only be present by Astronauts.

spaced out
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posted 03-27-2009 11:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by mickapp:
I am the proud recepient of a Silver Snoopy Award given to me by Al Worden and was told that it could only be present by Astronauts.

You can be proud indeed. Out of interest, could you tell us which mission the pin was flown on? I believe the accompanying letter is the key there, as the astronut making the presentation was not necessarily from the flight in question.

spaced out
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posted 03-27-2009 11:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by wmk:
I'd like to know if there are there different versions of these pins or have they remained the same over the years? Is there anyway to determine what time period a particular Snoopy pin is from (without any paper work or recipient's name)?

I've been able to compare a late Shuttle version with an Apollo-era version and there are differences in the design.

It's possible to tell from the fronts which is which, although the difference is subtle. The hallmark on the back is completely different.

What would be nice is to see the backs of known examples from Skylab, ASTP and STS-1 to see when the design changed.

kochmt
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posted 04-23-2009 08:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kochmt   Click Here to Email kochmt     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I received my Snoopy Award back in late 1969 for my work at KSC on Fuel Cells. The letter was addressed to me at P&WA & signed by Alan Bean but undated, which was odd. I was part of the KSC launch team assigned to the NASA/NA Fuel Cell Group & during launches I was in the Space Craft Control room. As far as I know, only P&WA, AC Electronics & Beech were the only vendors assigned places in the room during a launch sequence.

spaced out
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posted 12-18-2009 04:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've just added a page to my Space Flown Collectibles site dedicated to NASA's Silver Snoopy Award.

I've discovered that there are many variants of the Silver Snoopy pin, and all those I've identified so far are illustrated on the site.

Obviously the list of different variants is limited by the small sample of pins I've been able to see to-date. I know there are collectors out there with Silver Snoopy pins from other missions, so hopefully this page will prompt them to take a look at the backs and get in touch with me so that we can fill some of the gaps in the list.

spaced out
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posted 05-14-2012 06:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A Silver Snoopy pin with full paperwork set what must surely be the record for a Shuttle-era example yesterday with this sale on eBay hitting an amazing $2,720.66!

davidcwagner
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posted 05-14-2012 10:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for davidcwagner   Click Here to Email davidcwagner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A Silver Snoopy with no paperwork (unflown) sold for $612.50. Why so much?

spaced out
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posted 05-15-2012 12:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If that is an Apollo-era pin then the price is fairly standard for one without docs. It would be assumed to be flown, despite the description.

If NASA really did give out unflown Silver Snoopy pins to visitors, as suggested in the description of this lot, then that would change a lot of things. Not least it would have seriously undermined the significance of their own MFA award scheme if they handed out identical pins like candy.

If the winner of the pin is a cS member I'd appreciate seeing a close-up photo of the back of the pin when they get it.

spaced out
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posted 05-18-2012 02:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've just updated the Silver Snoopy page of my Space Flown Artifacts site to split the identified pin variants into three groups - those with the lower-case "r" Robbins hallmark, those with the upper-case "R", and the exceptions.

I can't stress enough that the number of clearly-dated pin examples is so small that we cannot confidently tie any particular pin style to a particular flight or date range at present.

If we had one pin from every Apollo flight that might give us a clearer picture but it would take several from each to start gaining any real confidence.

Even then it's possible that examples from one batch of pins may have been carried on multiple flights, being mixed with examples from a new batch on the last of the flights.

The recent case of pins coming from what appears to be un-awarded surplus stock shows that things can get even more complicated as we can never say for sure if these pins were yet to be flown or were flown but not awarded.

All this goes to highlight the fact that the only pin you can be reasonably confident was flown on a particular mission is one with the accompanying award certificate and letter, or one sold by an astronaut with accompanying LOA.

davidcwagner
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posted 05-22-2012 08:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for davidcwagner   Click Here to Email davidcwagner     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Were the Snoopy pins flown with the clasp or pin attached? Seems easier and lighter to pack without the clasps and pins. Ever see any bare back Snoopy pins? Any info?

spaced out
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posted 05-24-2012 03:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Following the recent flood of Silver Snoopy pins I've updated the page on the site once again to added another distinct group of pins - those that don't have a Robbins hallmark.

I've now seen three distinct variants that share this characteristic and it's clear that they also all have a couple of specific design differences on the front, as I explain on the updated page.

I realize that the information presented in terms of variants is still a mess but for now there just aren't enough examples with solid ties to particular missions to allow us to draw better conclusions or to start getting a better idea of the chronological order of the variants.

We're still at the point where most of the new pins that appear on the market turn out to be new variants.

As more pins surface (hopefully with solid documentation) I'm sure we'll eventually start to make some sense of it all.

tnperri
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posted 05-24-2012 06:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tnperri   Click Here to Email tnperri     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Any idea the value for a non-Robbins variety Snoopy?

spaced out
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posted 05-25-2012 04:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is not really a going-rate for Silver Snoopy pins, although the recent flurry of possibly unflown pins went for around $600 each (with some maybe being sold direct for less).

The pins without the Robbins hallmark are currently a mystery. Maybe we will one day discover they were unflown pre-production samples. Maybe we'll find they were made for a particular set of missions and thus likely flown on those missions.

Given these unknowns it's impossible to say how much an example 'should' be worth.

prpeter
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posted 11-22-2012 04:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for prpeter   Click Here to Email prpeter     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have a photo of John Young presenting a certificate and Silver Snoopy award to me as related to Skylab at the Michoud Plant, New Orleans, La. The photo is dated 02-21-73. The certificate is undated, but addresses me personally. My daughter currently has the Silver Snoopy, so I am unable to provide detail at this time.

spaced out
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posted 11-23-2012 12:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you do get a chance to photograph the front and back of that pin sometime I'd love to see the images to see if it matches any of the known types identified on my site and to add it if not.

neo1022
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posted 06-14-2013 01:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for neo1022   Click Here to Email neo1022     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've got my dad's Silver Snoopy (awarded 07/14/1983, Shuttle Program), with the original award certificate and associated paperwork. When I get a chance, I'll post a close-up photo and contextual information so you can add it to the database.

I looked at it a few days back, and recall that it had a nicely aged patina (looked almost like pewter), and there was a small hand-inscription on the reverse (looked like a date--two digits / two digits)--it may have been the award date, but I'm not sure... Kevin

SkyMan1958
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posted 06-14-2013 11:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SkyMan1958   Click Here to Email SkyMan1958     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was just wondering, do the Russians (and ex-Soviets) have some sort of pin like this, and if so does anyone have a picture of the Russian pin?

neo1022
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posted 07-04-2013 05:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for neo1022   Click Here to Email neo1022     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In an earlier post (above) I mentioned that my dad was awarded a Silver Snoopy for his work on the STS program. The pin was awarded by astronaut Michael J. Smith (who would later perish in the Challenger tragedy), on July 14, 1983.

As you can see in the photos, the pin appears to be of an early STS style, but with what might be a new pattern of hallmark placements. And most mysteriously, a set of engraved numbers (1-2-92) on the reverse, near the top of snoopy's head.

Any idea what these engraved numbers could refer to? I've seen a lot of photos of silver snoopys, but I've never seen those hand-etched numbers... The provenance and accompanying documentation are iron-clad, so we know this is an official pin (and its awarding is recorded in the NASA database).

Any info would be much appreciated. In particular, is there any way to know what mission this pin might have been flown on?

spaced out
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posted 07-04-2013 05:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
First-off, that's a great family heirloom and it's very nice to see that you have the original letter and award certificate with the pin. All-too-often these are lost over the years.

Your pin is a new Shuttle-era variant that I'll need to add to my Silver Snoopy page.

So, the markings — in fact it's not "1-2-92" but "F2-92" and these markings scratched on the back of Shuttle era pins are actually quite common.

In most examples the "F#" refers to the flight number so I would say it's very likely the pin was flown on STS-2, even though it was awarded some time later after STS-7 had flown.

The second number would be unique to the pin, i.e. pin #92 from the flight, although the numbering may only apply to a subset of all the pins flown. By that I mean that it's possible that this hand numbering may only have been added to the set of pins allocated to a particular section of NASA or maybe to a particular contractor.

neo1022
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posted 07-04-2013 11:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for neo1022   Click Here to Email neo1022     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thanks so much for the information! Great to know the likely mission affiliation--now that I am looking for an F instead of a 1, the inscription is clearly F2-92. And I'm happy to have found a new variant for your database!

spaced out
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posted 10-11-2013 01:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've just added yet another early period Snoopy pin variety to my site - that's 26 distinct varieties so far, including 14 lowercase "r" Apollo to early Shuttle era versions.

As ever, if anyone has a Silver Snoopy pin variety that's not shown on the site please send me photos.

Also, if you have an example of a pin variety I already list but with the original award documentation please send me the details as anything that helps tie a pin variety to a particular date or mission is very useful.

p51
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posted 10-11-2013 04:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for p51   Click Here to Email p51     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How many reproductions of these were made? I saw several of these at a military collectible show a few years ago, I had no idea what they were at the time and deeply regret not buying them all, now. But they were on a board with other tie tacs, at a few bucks each, and appeared to be brand new. I can only assume they were reproductions, but I wonder if anyone else has ever seen them. I only bring it up because the website noted by 'spaced out' mentions a reproduction he thinks was made for a the "From the Earth to the Moon" series, that's what I recall the ones I saw for sale looking like...

spaced out
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posted 01-17-2014 01:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've just added a small new section to the Silver Snoopy page of my SpaceFlownArtifacts site entitled "Which mission was my Silver Snoopy pin flown on?".

It won't be what many collectors want to hear but it reflects my current thinking on the issue. That said, I'm open to hearing other opinions on the subject.

spaced out
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posted 03-31-2014 08:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As I've mentioned before, when I first started looking in detail at Silver Snoopy pins I thought there might be two or three different versions but soon began to find that there were in fact multiple versions. Starting from an expectation of discovering a small number of variants I chose to name these using a straight numbering system and note this using roman numerals - thus variant I, variant II, etc.

This worked okay for a while but I'm now up to 31 distinct variants identified with more appearing just about every month. Now most people are familiar with using roman numerals for small numbers but much less familiar with the representation of larger numbers - e.g. would most people immediately recognize XLIX as 49?

The easiest thing I can do now is to just drop the roman numerals and use regular numbers, which would have the advantage of conserving the reference numbers already used by collectors, and referred to in some auction listings etc.

Alternatively, I could take this opportunity to introduce more information in the variant names. For example, the names could be grouped by the type of hallmark - lowercase "r", uppercase "R", STERLING with no R but with raised UFC text, STERLING with no R but with stamped UFC text, no Sterling mark at all, and known replicas/fakes. If anyone has a good idea as to how I could name/classify these pin variants I'm open to suggestions.

tnperri
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posted 03-31-2014 09:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for tnperri   Click Here to Email tnperri     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think using both Roman Numeral and Decimal would be the easiest. Such as Variant XI (11). This way you would not need to change any already defined variants. Then you could subgroup these on your site for easier reference.

spaced out
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posted 09-13-2014 12:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think Larry's reply to a post on the Buy/Sell/Trade forum is worth re-posting here:
I would suggest that you look at the public auctions for any Snoopy pins. There aren't that many flown Snoopy pins from the Apollo missions. Based on my discussions with all the Apollo astronauts still with us, there were very few flown on each mission.
  • Dave Scott told me that he was with Wally Schirra handing out Snoopy award pins for Apollo 7. He told me that none of them were flown. Walt Cunningham told me that there were only three Snoopy pins carried on Apollo 7.
  • Lovell told me that five were carried on Apollo 8 and Anders confirmed that number.
  • McDivitt and Scott said they carried about seven Snoopy pins on Apollo 9.
  • Stafford and Cernan said that the crew carried two pins on Apollo 10.
  • Buzz and Collins don't think there were any on their mission.
  • Gordon and Bean carried three pins according to their files.
  • Haise said Apollo 13 carried about 51 Snoopy pins between he and Lovell. That was by far the most carried in any one mission.
  • Mitchell doesn't have any Snoopy pins. He doesn't think any were carried on the mission.
  • Scott said that three Snoopy pins were carried on Apollo 15. That was when I asked him about the Snoopy pins he and Wally gave out. He said that none of those were flown and they gave out several of them post mission on Apollo 7.
  • Duke indicated that one Snoopy pin had flown during Apollo 16.
  • Cernan said that the regs were so tight on Apollo 17 and could not remember, off the top of his head, any flying on Apollo 17.
Based on all that, I have come up with a count of 75 Snoopy pins carried on all Apollo missions from Apollo 7 to Apollo 17. There may be more pins because of the lack of information from Apollo 11 and Apollo 17, but if one was to interpolate the numbers carried based on the all the missions, then the number might jump to between 90 and 100 Snoopy pins in total flown on the Apollo missions.

It is not a lot.

spaced out
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posted 09-13-2014 01:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Larry's post implies that NASA did not begin flying Silver Snoopy pins for award purposes until the early Shuttle period.

If true this certainly changes the accepted wisdom that all the pins were flown.

I did realize that the astronauts themselves only carried a small number of pins as personal souvenirs, which is effectively the pins Larry itemizes above, but I had assumed that NASA flew the bulk of pins independently of the PPKs, rather like the flag kits. The astronauts would not necessarily be aware of items outside of their PPKs.

It's certainly true that most award letters I've seen from the Apollo era make no mention of the pins being flown, with the exception of a few from Apollo 8.

Obviously if the Apollo-era awarded pins were indeed unflown I'm going to need to update my Silver Snoopy pin page.

An obvious question would then be - when did NASA start flying all Silver Snoopy award pins? STS-1? STS-2?

Robert Pearlman
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posted 09-13-2014 01:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Silver Snoopy has always been an award bestowed personally by the astronauts, not by NASA as an agency. As such, it makes sense that the Apollo astronauts would fly the pins.

During the space shuttle program, items to be awarded by the astronauts were moved into the Official Flight Kit (OFK). The PPKs were reserved for mementos to be given to friends and family.

That said, the STS-1 OFK did not include any Snoopy pins. It is possible that the pins flew in Young's and Crippen's PPKs. I do not know when the first instance of the pins being carried in the OFK occurred, but by the third decade of the program, it was common for 100 to 200 pins to be flown per mission.

quote:
Originally posted by spaced out:
If true this certainly changes the accepted wisdom that all the pins were flown.
Do we know for certain that the number of Apollo-era pins awarded outnumber the estimated number of Apollo-era pins flown?

Larry McGlynn
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posted 09-13-2014 02:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Larry McGlynn   Click Here to Email Larry McGlynn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The answer is yes. Between October 22, 1968 and February 28, 1972, there are 374 Snoopy awards given out to NASA and contractor employees.

The information is listed in the NASA website.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 09-13-2014 03:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So that begs the question, who did you have to be — or what did you do — to merit receiving a rare flown Silver Snoopy during Apollo?

And, since it seems past sales have included flown Silver Snoopy pins consigned by the astronauts themselves, why weren't they all given out?

Also, there appears to be some inconsistency between the numbers told to Larry and the past sale data. According to Stafford and Cernan, they only carried two on Apollo 10, but Stafford sold four, at least three of which were described as flown.

Larry McGlynn
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posted 09-13-2014 05:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Larry McGlynn   Click Here to Email Larry McGlynn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Robert, that's a good question. I don't have the answer to that, but I will ask Stafford that next time I talk to him. I wonder if he thought I was discussing LM flown Snoopy pins vs CM flown Snoopy pins?

I will check it out when he returns from Russia and Autographica.

It's anecdotal based on my conversations with the astronauts. Some have consulted their records for me, but not all. So the research continues, but based on my interviews, they did not carry a hundred or more on a flight. They were very clear on that point.

spaced out
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posted 09-14-2014 06:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
For Apollo 8, the small number of Silver Snoopy award letters I've seen explicitly state that the pin was carried on the flight. In fact I've seen three distinct award letters so far which would means that if only 5 were flown then only two other flown pins were awarded or kept by the astronauts.

Regarding Robert's question:

quote:
who did you have to be — or what did you do — to merit receiving a rare flown Silver Snoopy during Apollo?
I can't help but notice that the names of all three flown Apollo 8 pin awardees begin with the title "Miss". I'm sure that's just a coincidence...

Anyway, I'm open to the possibility that most Apollo-era pins were not in fact flown but I don't necessarily take the astronauts' personal recollections on the issue as the end of the story, except as regards the pins they personally kept or carried as personal souvenirs.

With respect to this issue the wording of a COA from Tom Stafford accompanying one of the Apollo 10 flown Silver Snoopy pins from his personal collection is interesting:

Almost all of these pins carried on the Apollo X flight were given to individuals who made important contributions to our flight. This one is one of the very few that have remained in my private collections since 1969.
This wording seems to fit with the idea of a set of pins being flown and presented as Silver Snoopy awards with just a few being kept as souvenirs by the astronauts themselves (perhaps corresponding to the small numbers in Larry's list above).

Like I say, I don't know if this is the case or not. I wouldn't write off either possibility for the moment.

Larry McGlynn
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Registered: Jul 2003

posted 09-14-2014 08:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Larry McGlynn   Click Here to Email Larry McGlynn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Chris, there were no OFK kits listed by NASA until Apollo 11. The lists that show up for Apollo 11 and Apollo 17 don't show any Snoopy pins. They show "wings," "Moon/Flag pins" "flags," and "medallions." So NASA didn't carry any Snoopy pins in any Apollo related missions.

I agree with you the forty year old recollections can be faulty. It's just that all of the Apollo astronauts I have talked to over the years have stated the same thing. That they did not carry many Snoopy pins on their missions.

There is more research to do and it will continue.


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