posted September 13, 2005 01:15 PM               

you all are collectors, how many of u have items in your collections, PRIZED items, that were fished out of the "dumpsters" buy government contracotrs?

You mean none of u?

I have herd first hand stories from , as i am sure u seasoned collectors know of people who worked at all sorts of government contracotrs facilities who took home things that were going into dumpsters, littleraly from flights that went into space, and travled to the moon,

None of u have had any credible expereinces with poeple who had access to engineers who you know without a doubt dumpster dove for "artifacts" ???

I am sure, that this was going to be dumped in the garbage, nasa back then didnt prioritize these things as they should of until much later,

How do u think all these "flown articles" like bags, meal packs, circuit boards, ect ect , ect, and other items get on the market?

From surplus sales, or dumpster diving, or from the astronauts themselves, who took the itmes becasue THE ITMES WOULD OF WOUND UP IN THE GARBAGE, in some landfill???

posted September 13, 2005 07:59 PM               

I noticed that was your first post -- I too have only recently begun posting on this site, although I have been lurking here for over a year before that.

I, for one, do not have any items "fished out of the garbage". I suspect that very, very few people have prized items "fished out of the garbage".

I am very, very confident that NASA officials were quite well aware of the importance and value of items that flew in space. If they were concerned about astronauts not selling personal items (envelopes, etc), don't you think they would be concerned about them fishing their space suits out of the garbage and selling them to a collector in Germany (reference to the Apollo 15 flown covers scandal).

I seem to recall some sales years ago by a company, I think it was called ILC, of spacesuit hardware, much of it selling for ridiculously low prices. I don't know if any of those items were flown ... my guess would be no.

Were some freaking circuit boards flown on missions and then discarded in the trash? Um, maybe. I won't lose any sleep over it if they were. A circuit board and a space suit are two entirely different things ... and they ought to be viewed as such, in my opinion.

I certainly respect the opinions of those who have advocated one outcome or another regarding Gus Grissom's space suit, and I am THRILLED that there are some folks on here who are under the age of 40 who are even interested in the space program, much less taking an active role in trying to decide the fate of historic articles from the program.

For what it's worth, I think Grissom's suit ought to stay where it is ... I could live with it moving to another facility as long as there are very, very tight controls regarding long term preservation.

Soap box mode: OFF.

posted September 13, 2005 08:27 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by capoetc:
ronin -

I am very, very confident that NASA officials were quite well aware of the importance and value of items that flew in space.
I seem to recall some sales years ago by a company, I think it was called ILC, of spacesuit hardware,

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posted September 13, 2005 09:45 PM               

I think it would make sense for NASA to have used it for training and then retire it for posterity.

Soap Box Mode: ON

I don't doubt that some Apollo program items were perhaps not pristinely handled over the years ... but using a suit for training and tossing it in the dumpster are, in my opinion, distinctly different outcomes.

And, I definitely did NOT take the previous post as being negative in any way ... we can all agree to disagree on certain things in an agreeable way. :-)

The question at hand is: What do we think should happen with Grissom's suit? And, more importantly, what do the current owners (Smithsonian) think should happen to the suit?

I, for one, trust the Smithsonian to make the best call possible to satisfy the involved parties while preserving our historical artifacts (yes, OUR artifacts) for posterity.

Soap Box Mode: OFF

posted September 14, 2005 03:26 AM               

To answer your question - I think it is very likely that Scott's suit was (from a conservators point of view) damaged by being used again for Cernan to train in. However, the attitude amongst the astronauts, Crew Systems Division and ILC was far more utilitarian at the time. If a suit could be reused it was, and as such several suits were reassigned from one similarly sized individual to another (always for training use only). I've seen a Cernan lunar glove (from his Apollo 14 backup suit) that had been reassigned to Scott, so it could even be two way traffic.

Regarding the ILC sale - I believe there were no flown suits or pieces, mainly mock-ups and quality control failed items. You might enjoy this photo from the sale, makes me smile/wince every time.

I paid just shy of $1,000 in the last Aurora for one of the boots the kid is trying on, and the Apollo Prototype helmet he's wearing (which would fit my ILC prototype suit just beautifully) is identical to the one that fetched about $5K last year.

The price of a complete suit at the ILC sale was $200.

Helmets were $5...

Cheers,
Matt

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www.spaceracemuseum.com

posted September 14, 2005 01:28 PM               

Regards,