Space News
space history and artifacts articles

Messages
space history discussion forums

Sightings
worldwide astronaut appearances

Resources
selected space history documents

Websites
related space history websites

  collectSPACE: Messages
  Hardware & Flown Items
  [Discuss] Omega Speedmaster space watches (Page 9)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search


This topic is 10 pages long:   1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10 
next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   [Discuss] Omega Speedmaster space watches
Philip
Member

Posts: 5840
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 11-29-2016 11:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Certainly something to ask Stafford if he flew his golden tribute no. 13 Speedmaster in his PPK on board ASTP.

On the subject of a removed bezel on docking module pilot Slayton's golden tribute no. 27 Speedmaster, we might suspect that he was prepping the watch to be flown in his PPK? (NASA portrait S74-15240 shows Slayton wearing golden tribute no. 27 Speedmaster without bezel.)

Larry McGlynn
Member

Posts: 1197
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 11-29-2016 11:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Larry McGlynn   Click Here to Email Larry McGlynn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
God, I love good watch talk.

I will ask Stafford about flying his gold Apollo 11 Speedmaster. I do know that the watch was stolen out of his hotel at the Dallas airport many years ago. The watch community is on the look out for the watch. If it ever shows up at auction, it is wanted back by the General. He currently wears the 1980 German issued version of the gold Speedmaster with his name engraved on it.

As for the subject of the bezel on the gold Apollo 11 Speedmaster watches, many of them were worn and the burgundy bezel was lost.

Looking at past auctions, you see both red and black bezels on some of the gold Apollo 11 Speedmasters up for sale. I was confused by the difference, but in talking with several astronauts, they told me that they wore the watch regularly and one day they found that the bezel fell off.

One moonwalker told me that he was at the beach and when he was leaving he found that the red bezel had fallen off and was lost on the beach. In talking with one of the lead watch technicians at Omega NJ, they told me that the gold bezel and gold case was a problem for Omega back then.

Once the red bezel was gone, a local jeweler could only replace it with a black bezel. That is why some of those gold Apollo XI commemorative Speedmasters show up with black bezels. The original watches gifted by Omega at the Hotel Warwick on November 25, 1969 all had the red or burgundy bezel which is beautiful with the rose gold watch case.

What I don't remember without checking is whether the 1999 Superior auction catalog lot description stated that Deke's gold watch was flown on ASTP. I can check in my archives later. I don't remember that it did fly, but I will check.

TLIGuy
Member

Posts: 188
From: Virginia
Registered: Jul 2013

posted 11-29-2016 02:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TLIGuy   Click Here to Email TLIGuy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The bezels are first seen missing on the watches worn by Stafford and Schirra on Gemini 6.

The question regarding the missing bezels on the newly issued Speedmasters was addressed by James Ragan last year.

Ragan raised concerns about the Hesalite crystals being used in space. His concern was that when exposed to direct sunlight for prolonged periods of time the crystal might deform. His testing confirmed that exposing the watch to prolonged heat comparable to direct sunlight would result in the crystal deforming and on several occasions even popping off. He noted that when the crystal would deform or flex it would cause the bezel to pop off. He also said that it was not uncommon for them to proactively remove the bezels as "We traveled too fast to use them." He said they just didn't serve much purpose.

Philip
Member

Posts: 5840
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 11-30-2016 09:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Learned the same details in the Omega Museum, that's why the Alaska 1 red case was made to protect the watch from vibrations especially due to movement of the Lunar Roving Vehicle. Although the watch movement itself was amply protected by using different alloys for small axis and several oils for lubrication.

The January 2017 edition of the book "Omega Speedmaster Apollo Soyuz" by Marco Stanga will address some of these issues.

Although the bezel something came loose by "carelessness," seen that with watches of Borman, Cernan, Slayton and we would have to find out if these were ever removed by astronauts on purpose to avoid FOD hazard onboard the capsule but I think the probability is small. Let's wait what James H. Ragan will have to say on this issue.

Larry McGlynn
Member

Posts: 1197
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 11-30-2016 06:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Larry McGlynn   Click Here to Email Larry McGlynn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TLIGuy:
He noted that when the crystal would deform or flex it would cause the bezel to pop off.
That would explain what happened to Dave Scott's Omega watch while on the lunar surface.

As for the bezels, I was referring to the gold commemorative watches. Those bezels came off occasionally due to over use.

Why don't we ask the guys who wore them? While they may not remember, it is worth a shot. I can get to a few of these guys. We can also look at photos too. I have seen many photos, but I have looked hard enough to see if the bezels were not on the watches in space.

TLIGuy
Member

Posts: 188
From: Virginia
Registered: Jul 2013

posted 12-01-2016 02:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TLIGuy   Click Here to Email TLIGuy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It does explain what happened to Scott's watch and also Duke's. I can't put my hands on it now but there is a report addressing the anomalies with the crystal concluding that no additional action is required.

I should have been clearer that I was only referring to the stainless steel flight issued watches. The problem with the gold Speedmaster bezels might be due to the soft nature of the gold.

I hope one day more light will be shed on the watches by the astronauts themselves but I think the kind of details we are looking for have sadly been lost to time. I hope I'm wrong.

My favorite Speedmaster recollection so far came from Walt Cunningham when I asked if there was a checklist item reminding them to wind their watch.

His reply:

We were all pretty bright guys back then. In the good old days all watches needed winding and we were smart enough to wind them everyday.

Dr. Mitchell's reply to the same question with a bit of his sense of humor coming through.

I wore a Rolex. I didn't need to wind it.

Philip
Member

Posts: 5840
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 12-03-2016 05:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TLIGuy:
The problem with the gold Speedmaster bezels might be due to the soft nature of the gold.
Correct!

moorouge
Member

Posts: 2433
From: U.K.
Registered: Jul 2009

posted 12-07-2016 12:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for moorouge   Click Here to Email moorouge     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by TLIGuy:
...reminding them to wind their watch.
I own an automatic Omega Speedmaster. Last year I had the pleasure of showing it off to Jim Lovell. He expressed surprise that there was such a thing as an automatic version of the "astronauts'" watch.

TLIGuy
Member

Posts: 188
From: Virginia
Registered: Jul 2013

posted 12-08-2016 01:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TLIGuy   Click Here to Email TLIGuy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Captain Lovell is also a fan of the Rolex 1675 GMT. The well worn GMT he still wears today can be seen in photographs going back to Apollo 8. His Rolex is truly unique as well having the coat of arm of the United States Naval Academy printed on the dial.

moorouge
Member

Posts: 2433
From: U.K.
Registered: Jul 2009

posted 12-08-2016 10:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for moorouge   Click Here to Email moorouge     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Further to my previous post - covering up the watch he was wearing I asked Jim if the six was Arabic or Roman. Much to his amusement, he eventually confessed that he wasn't sure. Of course, the watch didn't have a six as such.

Philip
Member

Posts: 5840
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 12-14-2016 07:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
44 years ago Apollo 17 LM Challenger took off and left the moon... tribute on MoonWatchUniverse.

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 41171
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 01-10-2017 05:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Omega has introduced a new limited edition Speedmaster Professional, the "Speedy Tuesday," available only by pre-ordering online.
For half a decade, an online community of #SpeedyTuesday fans has been steadily growing around the world. In tribute to these chronograph devotees, OMEGA is proud to introduce a new Limited Edition model that blends some of the Speedmaster's most popular design features.

The "Speedy Tuesday" takes its first design influence from the original 1978 "Speedmaster Alaska III" model. This watch was produced for NASA, who insisted on a watch that was anti-reflective and easy-to-read in space. For that reason, the "Speedy Tuesday" has stayed true to these qualities with a brushed matt-finish stainless steel case and radial subdials with enlarged numerals...

TLIGuy
Member

Posts: 188
From: Virginia
Registered: Jul 2013

posted 01-10-2017 08:28 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for TLIGuy   Click Here to Email TLIGuy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well done RJ and Omega. This watch strikes the perfect balance between honoring the rich history of the Speedmaster that a collector can appreciate and also has great crossover appeal to the modern watch buyer.

If this is any indication where Omega might be heading towards 2019 than I'm excited to see what comes down the pike.

Philip
Member

Posts: 5840
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 01-12-2017 11:17 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
At 31:15 onwards, nice time lapse of the Omega Speedmaster 861 chronograph at work in the Apollo 17 heat flow experiment.

LM-12
Member

Posts: 2880
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010

posted 01-13-2017 02:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LM-12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I guess you missed it, but the same footage was mentioned back on page 6.

Philip
Member

Posts: 5840
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 01-13-2017 04:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LM-12:
This photo shows several Omega Speedmaster watches in storage where the qualification testing was done. Can you match names to those numbers?
In fact those photos date much later then the October 1964 to February 1965 test period. Look carefully, that Speedmaster has a Professional dial, while the Speedmaster chronographs that were tested were 105.003, the last Speedmaster series with straight lugs!

Larry McGlynn
Member

Posts: 1197
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 01-13-2017 03:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Larry McGlynn   Click Here to Email Larry McGlynn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you are talking about the photo of the Speedys in the white tray, that photo was taken after 1976. As mentioned on page 6, the watches included the one that Stafford used on ASTP.

Philip
Member

Posts: 5840
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 01-18-2017 03:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Did we already discuss the extra bit at the velcro strap near John Young's Speedmaster? Clearly seen in Apollo 16 lunar EVA photos such as AS16-109-17804...

Philip
Member

Posts: 5840
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 01-18-2017 04:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A tiny mirror worn by both Duke and Young... with thanks to John (TLIguy).

Panther494
Member

Posts: 335
From: London UK
Registered: Jan 2013

posted 01-18-2017 05:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Panther494   Click Here to Email Panther494     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Weren't they also worn on Apollo 17, but on separate Velcro straps on the opposite wrist to the Speedy?

Philip
Member

Posts: 5840
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 02-08-2017 03:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Probably, check Apollo 17 magazine 134/B.

Philip
Member

Posts: 5840
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 02-15-2017 03:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This year (2017) marks 60 years of the Speedmaster. Omega's press kit.
Celebrating the past six decades of the Speedmaster, OMEGA proudly presents this tribute to the chronograph’s lifetime. These 60 memorable models each tell a unique story and whether they are rare editions, special tributes or significant for their technology or design...

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 41171
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 02-15-2017 06:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Omega video release
How did the Speedmaster get qualified for NASA's manned missions? NASA engineer Jim Ragan describes the extreme testing in 1964 and the surprising results.

Philip
Member

Posts: 5840
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 02-26-2017 08:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Question concerning the Mir-flown Speedmaster chronographs. Respectively 90 days and 365 days on Mir. Wondered if these were taken to the Russian space station on manned Soyuz missions or on unmanned Progress supply missions?
  • December 1990: 10 Speedmasters (Soyuz TM-11)?
  • July 1993: 35 Speedmasters (Soyuz TM-17 return TM-18)?
As there were no Progress missions for those months, the answer is clear, but during which mission did the first bunch of 10 return to Earth in March 1991? Progress M-6?

Philip
Member

Posts: 5840
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 02-27-2017 01:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The caseback of those ten "90 Days Flight Qualified" Speedmasters has the inscription "Spacelab MIR Dec. 90-Mar. 91."

For a marketing person there's probably no difference between Spacelab (a reusable European laboratory flown in the shuttle's cargo bay) and the Mir space station. So let's guess that these were flown on Soyuz TM-11, stayed on board Mir for six months, but were unpacked for testing during 90 days...

Philip
Member

Posts: 5840
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 03-08-2017 10:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
60 years Omega Speedmaster video

Philip
Member

Posts: 5840
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 03-20-2017 03:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A quick walk in the current Omega museum, which will be relocated across the street into the new Omega HQ building in Bienne CH:

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 41171
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 03-22-2017 09:51 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Omega is introducing several new Speedmaster chronographs at Baselworld this week, but they do not appear to include any space-related models. The novelties include: Update: I spoke too soon: Omega will be introducing a Speedmaster "Apollo XVII" Limited Edition in tribute to the late Gene Cernan. The details are not yet on their site, but it can be seen here (thanks to John [TLIGuy] for the heads-up).

Larry McGlynn
Member

Posts: 1197
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 03-22-2017 06:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Larry McGlynn   Click Here to Email Larry McGlynn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This Cernan watch is a little too soon. We just buried the man in January.

Panther494
Member

Posts: 335
From: London UK
Registered: Jan 2013

posted 03-22-2017 07:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Panther494   Click Here to Email Panther494     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I agree, too soon. Not very impressed by the watch either. Tend to prefer the simplicity of the original, black and white. A nicely engraved caseback would have been fine, as the Apollo XVII 30th anniversary model.

Philip
Member

Posts: 5840
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 03-23-2017 10:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Indeed, an Apollo 11 Limited Edition commemorative watch should resemble the classic 105.012 and 145.012 reference Speedmaster chronographs!

328KF
Member

Posts: 1193
From:
Registered: Apr 2008

posted 03-23-2017 11:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 328KF   Click Here to Email 328KF     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I might give Omega a break on this. Cernan was a "brand ambassador" of theirs for years and they had a close relationship with him. Perhaps this was just their way of honoring him after his passing.

That said, I agree that this is a less than stellar effort on their part. It looks like a blue "racing" Speedmaster dial. Plus this now makes three commemorative Cernan models.

On the other comments, Omega has made some great strides since introducing the First Omega in Space in 2012. The vintage straight lug case design is very popular and every year they offer more models like that. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a straight lug "Ed White" model in the future.

The one thing they won't go for is a 321 movement. The 1861 is here to stay, as much like the bracelets, the company claims the 321 doesn't meet modern standards anymore.

TLIGuy
Member

Posts: 188
From: Virginia
Registered: Jul 2013

posted 03-23-2017 12:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for TLIGuy   Click Here to Email TLIGuy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 328KF:
I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a straight lug "Ed White" model in the future.
This is something I would love to see. I was disappointed that in 2015 Omega didn't use the FOIS case to produce a GT-4 50th anniversary piece. While a fantastic watch was produced for the 40th anniversary I think they missed the boat not recognizing the 50th anniversary that put their watch on the map.

328KF
Member

Posts: 1193
From:
Registered: Apr 2008

posted 03-26-2017 04:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for 328KF   Click Here to Email 328KF     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is the stainless steel Apollo XVII limited to 1972 pieces and now Omega has revealed a blue-faced, gold case version limited to just 72 watches.

Philip
Member

Posts: 5840
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 03-27-2017 08:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Preview of the "Speedmaster For Space" article celebrating 55 years Omega Speedmaster in use on NASA spaceflight missions. The article will appear on page 178 of the May 2017 issue of BIS Spaceflight magazine.

Philip
Member

Posts: 5840
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 04-13-2017 04:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Philip:
Certainly something to ask Stafford if he flew his golden tribute no. 13 Speedmaster in his PPK on board ASTP.
The new edition of Moonwatch Only states an amazing claim on page 32:
Further to the official count of 11 Speedmasters, LtGen Thomas Stafford wore his personal 18k gold Speedmaster Professional he had received after the Apollo 11 lunar landing in 1969.
(That's the gold tribute Speedmaster reference 145.022 with maroon bezel.) Something new?

minipci
Member

Posts: 336
From: London, UK
Registered: Jul 2009

posted 04-13-2017 07:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for minipci     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Spotted this article on CNN describing the upcoming sale of Winston Churchill's Lemania watch at auction. In the article it states that Lemania made movements for other manufacturers, especially Omega.

So this raises the question, was his watch a precursor of the Speedy?

Larry McGlynn
Member

Posts: 1197
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted 04-22-2017 02:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Larry McGlynn   Click Here to Email Larry McGlynn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Two items of note.

I talked with Stafford yesterday and he confirmed that he did not take him gold Speedmaster on the ASTP mission. He was very quick to say that he took two Speedmasters with one on each wrist.

Lemania has been linked with Omega for ages. Lemania manufactured the 321 and 861 movement from the beginning. The two companies allied into the SSIH in the early part of the 20th Century. Now Swatch Group owns both entities. Lemania made the base movements for the 321 and 861 movements and have slight differences from the Lemania movements of that time.

Omega had been making chronographs since 1898 as pocket chronographs. The first wrist chronographs made by Omega were the CHRO in 1913 with an 18 calibre.

It is interesting when one learns that the majority of all movements are made by one manufacturer. The Lemania 5100 being the base for almost all Swiss mechanical watches. But the Lemania movement is one of the granddads of all time.

But that is another long story.

In the end, the movements are similar with slight differences in parts, but the watch cases, dials, hands and crystals are unique to the watch manufacturer.

Philip
Member

Posts: 5840
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 04-25-2017 07:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
During the last few months our small cS discussion group could confirm one and the other about "flown" Speedmaster chronographs. Now we'll have to wait until we get an update with a replacement table, which will be provided by NASA, Omega and National Air and Space Museum representatives on the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal.

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 41171
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 04-25-2017 04:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From Buzz Aldrin on Twitter:
We've made it to London to celebrate the Omega Speedmaster 60th Anniversary. The best space watch and the one I wore on the moon.


This topic is 10 pages long:   1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  9  10 

All times are CT (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | The Source for Space History & Artifacts

Copyright 2019 collectSPACE.com All rights reserved.


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47a





advertisement