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Author
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Topic: Space publications: hard copy or digital?
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Philip
Member Posts: 5952
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 01-08-2010 04:01 AM
   
Well sooner or later it will finally happen; no moore books, everything online or digital on an E-reader. What do collectors think of this trend?Last year, the readers of "ESA Bulletin" and "ESO Messenger" were asked if they still wanted to receive a hard copy of the magazine as those were available online. Moreover, other magazines struggle as almost everything is available online nowadays (correct of not correct information). An example is BIS Spaceflight magazine, which sells for a higher price at bookstores. Personally, I prefer to hold a book or magazine in my hands, feel it and collect it in a hard copie book/magazine collection. |
minipci
Member Posts: 365
From: London, UK
Registered: Jul 2009
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posted 01-08-2010 04:08 AM
It will be a sad day indeed if all publications go "digital only" in the future. I much prefer a real book or magazine. Reading everything on an electronic device would be very tiresome. |
Tykeanaut
Member Posts: 2212
From: Worcestershire, England, UK.
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 01-08-2010 04:10 AM
It's easier to read a book in bed! |
Philip
Member Posts: 5952
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 01-08-2010 04:24 AM
Indeed, it's more dangerous falling asleep with a laptop besides you.  I guess most people aged between 25 and 75 think this way. The younger generation want everything digital. In the 1970s and 1980s, we had to live with hard copy magazines as we all know those were the only means for space enthusiasts to get information about spaceflight events. As a young boy, Spaceflight magazine was my main source. |
cspg
Member Posts: 6210
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006
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posted 01-08-2010 08:39 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Philip:
Well sooner or later it will finally happen; no moore books, everything online or digital on an E-reader. What do collectors think of this trend?
It's insane. E-readers (I suppose you refer to Kindle) is a closed system (last time I checked) so it looks like an earlier version of iTunes. The whole idea is dead. When open-source comes along, that's going to be a different story. But I'd rather have a hard copy of a document (not necessarily space-related books) than a digital one. You can skim online books but read them...no way. Printed books will still be around but maybe more and more expensive to acquire. You can see this in comics- a trend appears that will allow you to "read" comics on those "pseudo" smart phones...It's insane. And let's just wait for the internet to crash. It's a system that was never designed to be used the way it is- and since nobody wants to tackle a profound redesign of the architecture (like Windows) because of all sorts of reason (money and the short-term "visionaries" to name two), it will be a lot fun to witness- if it happens in my lifetime of course!  Techno-dependence will probably kill us before any asteroid does (see Air France A340 Rio-Paris crash). But I'm veering off course here!
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tegwilym
Member Posts: 2331
From: Sturgeon Bay, WI
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 01-08-2010 01:10 PM
My attention span when reading .pdf files for example, gets very short when reading on a computer screen. I do much better when reading a book. Those Kindle things do look good though, but I just like paper with text and no battery required when reading. I read when going to bed at night and on the bus to and from work every day. If the day comes when paper is gone, I hope it happens way in the future when I'm not around anymore. |
Kite
Member Posts: 831
From: Northampton UK
Registered: Nov 2009
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posted 01-08-2010 02:27 PM
Books are so much more personal, whether signed or not. I'm very proud of my space collection even if it is probably small compared to some enthusiasts. I enjoy after reading one refering to others to see if different accounts of the same event vary. |
xlsteve
Member Posts: 391
From: Holbrook MA, USA
Registered: Jul 2008
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posted 01-08-2010 03:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by cspg:
It's insane. E-readers (I suppose you refer to Kindle) is a closed system (last time I checked) so it looks like an earlier version of iTunes.
I actually have a Kindle, and it's true you primarily access your content through Amazon. It does support DRM-free mobipocket and other formats, and there are a number of ways to get free materials to read outside of Amazon. I also prefer the small size of the Kindle to read and carry with me on the train versus a large book. The Kindle does support PDFs, but that is something that will require development as the formatting can be a bit dodgy. One advantage is that I've been able to read the Augustine report on the train using the Kindle without going to time or expense to print the whole thing out. That said, anything that has lots of illustrations or diagrams I am unlikely to read via the Kindle since the screen size is prohibitive. |
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 01-08-2010 04:54 PM
The problem I see is that e-readers are just that. If there was an e-reader/laptop (or netbook)/cell phone/digital camera combo, then fine, but I can't see getting an e-reader just for one task.As well, one has to consciously carry one. I may or may not buy a book or a newspaper on any given day, but if I do, I can do so easily. The Que e-reader is on the right track... but I still can't see lugging one of them around "just in case." It's like cel phones - unless you really needed it, would you have gotten one 20 years ago, with the battery the size of a brick, to be slung over your shoulder? Or more familiarly, like the Osbourne portable computers - if that were the laptop offered today, would you get one? |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 01-08-2010 06:03 PM
I can understand electronic books to a degree...especially for fiction readers who may never read the same book twice and don't want to carry around a collection of unwanted volumes. But for non-fiction readers who want a reference library, it's a mixed blessing. Perhaps searching for information would be easier/quicker in electronic format. But I wouldn't want to be one hard drive crash away from losing my entire reference library. Of course, back-ups are essential...but that adds another "maintenance" aspect to keeping the files. Books are tangible objects that will outlast most of us and are something future generations will enjoy. Electronic files we collect will most likely vanish once the technology is obsolete or the format changes considerably (or we eventually lose our files). I can't envision someone "unearthing" a PDF file in 500 years like they would a printed book. Perhaps the best option is to publish a hard copy of the book, but include a coupon in the back of the book allowing one to download the volume in electronic format. That way you have the best of both worlds. Something is similarly done for music collectors like myself who still buy new albums on vinyl LPs (yes, they still make them!). Inside the LP sleeve, we are often given a coupon to download the album on MP3 format for free. So we can play the record on the turntable (for maximum sound quality) AND listen to it on our iPods when we're not at home (for maximum portability). |
Dennis Beatty
Member Posts: 356
From:
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 01-20-2010 10:21 AM
Contrary to some opinions already expressed, I love my Kindle. I have an entire library at my fingertips... all in the size of a paperback book. |
Wehaveliftoff
Member Posts: 2343
From:
Registered: Aug 2001
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posted 01-20-2010 10:28 AM
Books will live on forever, and be read as well. |
Philip
Member Posts: 5952
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 01-20-2010 10:37 AM
Moreover, spaceflight related books, especially the early NASA SP-series, might one day become real antiques |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3118
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 01-20-2010 08:27 PM
Kindle....an interesting name. Throw them all into a big pile. Add petrol/gasoline. Strike a match...it's the only form of "book-burning" I could applaud. |
music_space
Member Posts: 1179
From: Canada
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 01-23-2010 08:21 PM
I have been collecting space-related, printed documents for a long while now, but since I prefer hand-written artefacts -- such as notebooks or annotated documents -- I tend to acquire printed stuff in .pdf's or other readable formats and save the money for the handwritten artefacts. I think all-digital reading is the future.In the other hand, I also collect spacecraft instruments, and I don't see as much interest in acquiring, say, a digital Soyuz clock as it is to get an electro-mechanical one. I cherish my Voskhod "Globus" instrument for its 100-plus exquisitly designed, machind and assembled gears -- and I have much less interest in, say, a PC laptop flown on STS and used with a earth-path-indicating software... ------------------
Francois Guay
Collector of litterature, notebooks, equipment and memories! |
Dennis Beatty
Member Posts: 356
From:
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 01-23-2010 08:35 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Blackarrow:
...it's the only form of "book-burning" I could applaud.
Sheesh!! I wonder if a few techno-phobic monks said the same thing about that darned old invention Johann Gutenberg came up with...
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Philip
Member Posts: 5952
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 01-29-2010 09:29 AM
Well our topic is just one month old and look; Apple iPad  |
gliderpilotuk
Member Posts: 3398
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 01-29-2010 02:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis Beatty:
I wonder if a few techno-phobic monks said the same thing about that darned old invention Johann Gutenberg came up with...
As I understood it Gutenberg marked the change from hand-written print to movable type ON THE SAME MEDIUM. Hardly a reasonable comparator for the hard copy to virtual transition. |
RPF09
Member Posts: 14
From:
Registered: Feb 2009
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posted 01-11-2011 12:05 PM
I am keen to obtain books in electronic format, simply due to space, ease of purchase and reading on an electronic device, i.e. Kindle etc.I recently down loaded the book Energiya-Buran, The Soviet Space Shuttle, by Springer Praxis Books for the Kindle. It was my first electronic text book and I was rather disappointed. The problem with it was, while a simple novel can flow well on the Kindle (you can resize the text and page width), the formatting of text books particularly with illustrations, references, index etc, is that the layout becomes rather disjointed. I therefore thought that a PDF of the book would be a good idea. However on the Springer Link website, you can buy chapters of the book (and many other similar space books) for 25.00 Euro per chapter, which is rather expensive to say the least! I have not downloaded a chapter to examine the layout of the PDF, but I would hope that it would match the book in terms of style and quality. I am not willing to pay £225 for a complete PDF of the book, and I don’t think anyone else is either. I hope to raise this issue with them as I think there is a strong future in selling books electronically, especially in the PDF format for text books. My questions are: - Any views on this subject (just out of interest)?
- More importantly, does any one know any publishers that sell PDF copies of their books (ideally books that would interest collectSPACE members, though from a broader perspective of publishing, anyone else at all)?
Editor's note: Threads merged. |
Fezman92
Member Posts: 1031
From: New Jersey, USA
Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 01-11-2011 01:16 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Philip:
I guess most people aged between 25 and 75 think this way. The younger generation want everything digital.
Not true. I'm 18 and I would take a bulky, cumbersome, heavy space book over a digital copy any day. For one, I don't have to worry about recharging it. Secondly, I can flip back to part of it without waiting for it to start up. Thirdly, I am a "book junkie" in that I want to hold a book because it makes it easier to read. Also, books last longer than digital copies and digital books can be lost, the data can be corrupted, while a book cannot. |
fredtrav
Member Posts: 1673
From: Birmingham AL
Registered: Aug 2010
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posted 01-11-2011 01:48 PM
I am an old fogey. I much prefer to hold a book and read it. Digital may be acceptable for some applications such as travel but I would much rather read a book in bed than turn on an e-reader.As far as files on e-books being corrupted or disc crashes that does happen. Unfortunately paper books can burn or be destroyed by water, though much less likely than a crash of a hard disc. If you have a long power outage you can still read a real book long after the e-reader loses its charge. |
Tykeanaut
Member Posts: 2212
From: Worcestershire, England, UK.
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 01-11-2011 02:46 PM
As I posted earlier, give me a book or magazine anyday. Once all us old fogeys have passed away they can do what they like!! |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3118
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 01-11-2011 06:16 PM
It's good to be able to access digital copies of rare or bulky documents for research purposes, but nothing beats the "feel" of the genuine book or report nestling in your hands. I pulled my copy of the Apollo 15 Preliminary Science Report from my book-shelves today to check something. The report is slightly scuffed on the front cover, but otherwise in great condition. It is a real, physical connection to the mission. I know it's nearly 40 years old because the publication date is on an inner page. The digital copy available on the Web is just text on a screen. |
cspg
Member Posts: 6210
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006
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posted 01-12-2011 12:16 AM
What guarantee do we have that a digital version will be compatible with future electronic devices? None. On a related topic, see this thread/post. |
1202 Alarm
Member Posts: 436
From: Switzerland & France
Registered: Nov 2003
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posted 01-12-2011 03:48 AM
The problem with digital is the need to convert or transfer everything on a regular basis, buy new hardware, just to keep music, photos and text readable and usable.No improvement there, just to be able to continue to use the same material. We hope pressed DVDs will probably last 20 years but homemade DVD-R's have a much more limited life. We'll have to take care of these soon. All our hardware have batteries or components with a limited lifespan. If they are not supported by new versions, our material, our databases, all our work will die when the gear is broken or the software is discontinued. And anyway, we'll have to convert and export all over again, and again. Worse, we are now pushed to adopt virtual music and soon movies libraries. The day we stop paying monthly subscription to access our collections, or if the company goes bankrupt or change its policy, everything we 'owned' will be gone. And now books? It's even sillier since, unlike music of films, books don't need electricity and hardware in the first place!
So the talk about being old-fashioned, Gutenberg blah blah, is rubbish. Being happy about this situation just because it means 'more space in the living room'? Oh dear... For decades, all we wanted was media support that could follow us during a good part of our lives. Negatives or slides, records or CDs, VHS or DVDs, books. Media that we paid to own and touch at our discretion, move location with, share, sell or give. Media that we owned without being obliged to ask permission, need to adapt licenses, obligation to pay each month for it, or to buy new hardware to watch it. Well, it's simply not the case anymore. And now books... |
capoetc
Member Posts: 2169
From: McKinney TX (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 01-12-2011 09:08 AM
The solution is simple and partly in your own hands. We live in a market economy -- if people demand books in hard-copy format, then those will be made available for sale. If the masses vote with their wallets for electronic data, then that will be the way of the future.Personally, I believe the news of the demise of the hard-copy book is greatly exaggerated. Both hard copy books and electronic books can continue to peacefully coexist. |
hermit
Member Posts: 186
From: Scotland
Registered: Jun 2009
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posted 01-12-2011 05:08 PM
Stuff is already becoming unplayable. See the posting by Sy Liebergot about the CD Apollo 13: A Race Against Time, produced by Arts&Letters, which won't play now that Windows 7 has been released. |
cspg
Member Posts: 6210
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006
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posted 01-13-2011 12:19 AM
quote:
Originally posted by capoetc:
If the masses vote with their wallets for electronic data, then that will be the way of the future.
That doesn't explain the vinyl's comeback! |
cspg
Member Posts: 6210
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006
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posted 01-20-2011 09:14 AM
I surely understand the practical aspects of digital media/books (if not that would be a bit odd! ) but, gee, I just received NASA's Contributions to Aeronautics (NASA SP-2009-570)! WOW! It's a two-volume publication 1,000 pages each, hardcover that comes within a box! Armstrong is next to the X-15 on the cover. Beautiful! |
Steve Procter
Member Posts: 1031
From: Leeds, Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 01-20-2011 09:50 AM
Have you tried getting an e-book signed? |
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