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Topic: Regency-Superior May 2008 auction
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andrewcli Member Posts: 328 From: La Jolla, CA, USA Registered: Jul 2007
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posted 03-22-2008 04:50 PM
Just received my catalogue for Regency-Superior's May 2-3 space auction today. Amazing. Not like HA's flown stuff but more affordable for me. ![](http://collectspace.com/ubb/wink.gif) Decisions, decisions, decisions... |
GerryM Member Posts: 244 From: Glenside PA Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 03-22-2008 10:59 PM
quote: Originally posted by andrewcli: Decisions, decisions, decisions...
This is a really sweet auction with really nice items, however there were so many Armstrong forgeries (among others) I lost count... so the buyer should be aware.Overall, this is one of the best Regency's space auctions. Gerry Montague |
SpaceSteve Member Posts: 428 From: San Antonio TX, USA Registered: Apr 2004
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posted 03-22-2008 11:17 PM
Anyone know when their online catalog will be available to look at?Steve |
Alan Lipkin Member Posts: 78 From: Beverly Hills, CA USA Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 03-26-2008 03:09 PM
Gerry, thanks for the "heads-up". We are in the process of pulling some items that were unfortunately put in the catalog before I proofed them. Please email me off list (alipkin@regencysuperior.com) with the numbers that you determine as problems and I will take care of them.Sorry they got in, please do not let them detract from the overwhelming majority of good stuff. Alan |
Alan Lipkin Member Posts: 78 From: Beverly Hills, CA USA Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 03-26-2008 03:11 PM
Catalog is now online at www.regencysuperior.com will be up on eBay in a few days.Alan |
mjanovec Member Posts: 3811 From: Midwest, USA Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 03-26-2008 05:33 PM
quote: Originally posted by Alan Lipkin: Catalog is now online at www.regencysuperior.com will be up on eBay in a few days.
Does anyone at Regency-Superior currently have the responsibility to review the autograph submissions with regards to authenticity? I see numerous examples of autographs in the catalog that either appear to be atypical, at best, or appear to be forgeries, at worst. While I also see many examples that appear to be perfectly authentic, I am a bit worried by what appears to be a growing trend of "buyer beware" auctions. I can understand one or two well-done forgeries occasionally slipping through the cracks, but some of the apparent forgeries I'm seeing in the latest catalog appear to be very crudely done (such as Lot 2180). In other instances, well known autopen patterns appear to be represented as authentic autographs (such as Lot 2138). I have been quite supportive of the Regency-Superior auctions in the past and have purchased items for myself at some of the previous auctions. But sadly, I think the quality of the item review is lacking with this current auction. My recommendation to Regency-Superior, if they wish to remain credible seller in this marketplace, is that they employ an authenticator who is knowledgeable in astronaut autographs. My recommendation for potential bidders in this auction is to seek a second opinion on any autographed lot you are interested in. |
Alan Lipkin Member Posts: 78 From: Beverly Hills, CA USA Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 03-27-2008 10:13 AM
Thank you for your comments & input!First of all, let me take responsibility for any inclusion of autopens or dubious autographs in the sale. With deadlines all over the place here, and very late receipt of consignments it was impossible to have all items checked before the catalog went to print. We will, of course remove items from sale as they are proved to be mis-described or not genuine. We have already pulled Lot # 2058, 2138 and 2180. There are others we are checking on at the moment. We accept the need for autograph authentification before the next catalog goes to print. Does anyone have any suggestions at to whom we can trust to evaluate autographs in our next sale? We will try to get them all checked beforehand next time. For this auction, rest assured, we will deal with any questions as they arise. If you judge any lots to be a problem, please email me off-list at: alipkin@regencysuperior.com I will be attending the Smithsonian Conference in Washington, DC for the next few days so my responses may be a bit delayed until I get back, but I will respond to all. Thank you all for your patience & loyalty. Alan Lipkin |
NAAmodel#240 Member Posts: 312 From: Boston, Mass. Registered: Jun 2005
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posted 03-27-2008 12:49 PM
Am eager to bid on Regency-Superior lots in their May auction. Does anyone have any concerns about whether cancels on embossed envelopes might have come from Charles Riser? Also interested in opinions on the second Lake Champlain. |
Alan Lipkin Member Posts: 78 From: Beverly Hills, CA USA Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 03-27-2008 02:04 PM
The embossed covers are being checked out right now. It appears that almost all of them are Riser forgeries. The second Champlain cover, has some characteristics of the Riser forgeries byt the letter "Y" on "MAY" does not shoe the shortening of the upper arm tyopical of Riser.Riser forgeries will either be noted and sold as such or withdrawn within the next few days. Alan Lipkin |
Michael Member Posts: 309 From: Brooklyn New York Registered: Jun 2002
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posted 03-27-2008 02:12 PM
quote: Originally posted by Alan Lipkin: We accept the need for autograph authentification before the next catalog goes to print. Does anyone have any suggestions at to whom we can trust to evaluate autographs in our next sale? We will try to get them all checked beforehand next time.
There is no question in my mind... Scott!!!! |
Michael Member Posts: 309 From: Brooklyn New York Registered: Jun 2002
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posted 03-27-2008 03:13 PM
Are any of these items authentic?2245 2321 2322 2336 2337 2338 2340 |
NAAmodel#240 Member Posts: 312 From: Boston, Mass. Registered: Jun 2005
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posted 03-27-2008 03:30 PM
I contacted Alan Lipkin off line concerning possible Riser forgeries. He replied within minutes and promised to ensure that anyone bidding was aware of that potential. My hat's off to him. Would that all auction houses were as responsive to the cS community. |
stsmithva Member Posts: 1933 From: Fairfax, VA, USA Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 03-27-2008 05:02 PM
I was about to write something similar, since I e-mailed Mr. Lipkin about lot 2058, described as Shepard's actual flown Randall knife, and within hours it had been pulled. By coincidence the Goldberg auction featured an identical advertising acrylic, also incorrectly described. They also changed the listing within hours of my letting them know. I was able to e-mail them both NOT because I am an expert when it comes to flown items, but because I recognized the photo from this interesting cS thread. Steve |
Ken Havekotte Member Posts: 2915 From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 03-27-2008 05:42 PM
Michael -- In answer to your posted questions, Lot #2245 is most curious. While the signatures of the Apollo 1 crew appear to be authentic, why would White inscribe a date of "12 April '65" when in fact the official NASA crew portrait of the first manned Apollo crew wasn't possible until 1966! I've also noted "good-looking" autographs of White with notations of, "Capt. USAF," when in fact he was a major at the time such photos were snapped of him and McDivitt as the GT-4 prime crew.Other lots referred to; #2321 of Armstrong I would certainly pass on, #2322 -- Nope, one of the known forgeries, #2336-38 a German forgery as with the next two lots, #2340 another bogus attempt of the Apollo 11 crew. Others that should be mentioned, based on my opinions, would be #2051 -- a classic Mercury 7 signed forgery of all the Project Mercury astronaut team, #2058 -- This "First Knife Flown in Space" lucite is a miniature copy and not the original flown Randall knife, #2063 a possible unknown secretarial, #2064 is a later SDH-Shepard secretarial, #2110 is a fake Schirra signature with bogus inscription, #2116 could be a Cooper autopen as I can't see it too well from my scan, #2169 -- fake GT-6 crew signatures along with Lovell on the next lot, #2180-81 are both bogus GT-8 crew signed cover attempts, #2269 needs a better scan, #2263-91 may be better German forgeries as they need closer examinations, #2293 -- Don't like the Scott on this Ap-9 cover, I'll stop here for now and perhaps as time permits we'll look at some others. |
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-27-2008 07:04 PM
quote: Originally posted by stsmithva: ...and within hours it had been pulled.
While I am glad to read of such a quick turnaround, I have to question why the lot was pulled in its entirety? While it is not a flown knife, it still could be of interest as a piece of space program-related memorabilia. Couldn't the description be revised and a notice be published in an errata sheet?I am just concerned that in our desire to have everything be proper, that we do not start junking good items because of a mistake in a lot description. |
Ken Havekotte Member Posts: 2915 From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 03-27-2008 07:32 PM
Yes, Rob, I also agree that the MR-3 Randall knife lucite presentation makes a great collectible associated with America's first man-in-space shot. It should be advertised as a vintage-era reproduction by the Randall knife company in commemoration of Shepard's epic space feat in 1961. |
stsmithva Member Posts: 1933 From: Fairfax, VA, USA Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 03-27-2008 08:03 PM
quote: Originally posted by Robert Pearlman: While I am glad to read of such a quick turnaround, I have to question why the lot was pulled in its entirety?
When I wrote to Mr. Lipkin, I didn't demand that it be pulled - that hadn't even occurred to me. But when he wrote back he said that just changing the description online would be confusing. He thought it was safer to pull it completely - I guess they'll list it again in a future auction with the correct information right off the bat.Steve |
Ken Havekotte Member Posts: 2915 From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 03-27-2008 08:56 PM
In continuation of my prior post here, at the urgent request of two cSers tonight, I'll comment on other auction lots past the Apollo 11 section. Perhaps it should be noted that there are numerous Apollo 12 crew signed photos and covers. While most appear to be genuine, it shouldn't go unnoticed (with the death of Pete Conrad) that German forgeries may be a real or concerned possibility here. Hopefully many of the crew-signed lots were obtained during commercial signings as all 3 crewmembers were known to participate, many times all together, in numerous signings throughout the 1990s. Lot #2402X does depict an autopen of Gibson, #2438 could be a possible German forgery, #2468 and #2470 are crew forgeries, another possible German-related forgery for #2490 as the Mattingly isn't vintage-era, #2512 just not too crazy about despite rough autograph appearances that were later common with this particular crew (mostly Cernan), #2532X depicts a Gordon autopen, #2537X highlights an autopen of Pogue, #2568X-2570 could be possible Leonov/Kubasov forgeries as I just don't care for them of what I can see, #2591X illustrates autopens of Engle and Truly, #2597X is crew autopens of STS-75, #2615--don't like the Young, one of the shown STS-33 crew-signed covers features a Musgrave autopen, #2676--Crew autopens of STS-51B with the only exception of Lind, #2679 needs a better look at the Garn, #2989 is a Bean autopen, #3012X is a Schirra autopen, #3010--be careful of this "early" Young, #3016X is an Ap-15 crew autopen with "In appreciation of your support --," That should do it for now. If I missed any others, as I am in need of a major eye-glass change soon, please let me know.
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4allmankind Member Posts: 1043 From: Dallas Registered: Jan 2004
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posted 03-27-2008 09:04 PM
Ken, all I can say is THANK YOU for taking the time to type all of that. Sharing of expertise is not something all experts do. Again, thanks. Jay
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Scott Member Posts: 3307 From: Houston, TX Registered: May 2001
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posted 03-27-2008 10:07 PM
Thank you for that, Ken.I'll add 2324, 2325, 2335 & 2339. Lot 2343 is a German fake IMO. I would personally take a pass on 2320. Just my opinion of course, but I am not sure 2340 is bad. I would like to get a better look at it. Lot 2319 is incorrectly described in the catalog. It is actually signed by all 3, not just Aldrin. I am familiar with this item as I gave the gentleman who owns it advice on whether to have Aldrin sign it. It is signed (authentically IMO) by all 3 crew members, though the Armstrong and Collins are very very light. The recent authentic Aldrin is signed over a faded example of one of the recently discussed NASA "secretarials/forgeries" (of Aldrin in this case). An unusual item, but authentic IMO.
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GerryM Member Posts: 244 From: Glenside PA Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 03-27-2008 10:14 PM
I would add these Apollo 11 autographs to Ken's list. Lot #2324... lot #2325 and lot #2343. I am not at all comfortable with any of these.With the Apollo 12 crew signed lunar photos, I would give them thumbs up. I don't think they could be German forgeries, rather they more than likely were consigned by that mega collector in Houston. Gerry Montague Astronaut Archives |
Ken Havekotte Member Posts: 2915 From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 03-27-2008 11:08 PM
For Scott and Gerry--Yes, I did "miss" or not see some of the Ap-11 lots, and overall, I agree with those observations noted here. Two of the Ap-11 cover lots with Collins and Armstrong may indeed have a good provenance, even though I am not too crazy about both signatures (#2333 & 2325). But a long-time Space Unit veteran collector used a bunch of Ap-11 cachet covers like this in 1969, with added Cape hand cancels affixed to Ap-8 postage stamps, and secured many pioneer astronaut autographs before his covers were rubber stamped with Whitney cachets and posted mainly for man's first lunar landing. Certainly, yes, #2335 (did I miss this lot beforehand?) are definite signature forgeries as all were done in the same hand, Nixon included. Lot #2339, as noted, certainly not with vintage signatures as they look more like forgeries of a later style. Since Armstrong and Collins were the first to stop signing postal covers shortly after their lunar voyage, their signatures are not from that era, as with Aldrin, as well. Conclusion--they're not good! |
Scott Member Posts: 3307 From: Houston, TX Registered: May 2001
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posted 03-28-2008 08:55 AM
quote: Originally posted by Ken Havekotte: I am not too crazy about both signatures (#2333 & 2325)...
I don't like those two, either. IMO Lot 2333 looks like either an unknown autopen pattern or a forgery based on a known autopen pattern (Pattern #1 on Chris Spain's page). |
mikeh Member Posts: 147 From: Registered: Feb 2008
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posted 03-28-2008 09:03 AM
Quite frankly, I am very disappointed in the apparent lack of due diligence here. As a novice with limited expertise, I look to the major houses like R-S to provide a certain level of expert authentication to help protect their bidders (i.e., me) from fraud. That is why I am willing to pay a premium price. Otherwise, the risk is no different than bidding on ebay to me. I'm crossing R-S off of my list until I see a significant turnaround. |
Kevmac Member Posts: 267 From: College Station, TX Registered: Apr 2003
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posted 03-28-2008 09:59 AM
I recieved an invitation from Alan Lipkin to the Regency-Superior Space Memorabilia Appraisal Clinic in Washington DC tomorrow (Saturday). He will be "accepting material for auction as well as puchasing material outright". Alan, if you're reading this, are you also appraising value on items even if they're not being submitted for auction? I didn't call ahead to attend as requested but am still thinking about attending (No appt is necessary). Was wondering if any other locals are going? It's gonna be a mob scene downtown tomorrow with a marathon, Cherry Blossoms, and Nationals new stadium opener against the Orioles. Looks like a Metro-riding day! Thank you. KM |
mjanovec Member Posts: 3811 From: Midwest, USA Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 03-28-2008 10:51 AM
Here are some other lots that I presonally find to be questionable:Lot 2136 - poor-looking Grissom signature Lot 2137 - don't care all that much for either signature Lot 2148 - very poorly done Ed White Of course, these are just my opinions. But I believe that any potential bidder on these lots should get second (or third) opinions before proceeding. |
cosmos-walter Member Posts: 691 From: Salzburg, Austria Registered: Jun 2003
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posted 03-28-2008 11:23 AM
A few words to "Space Mail" items:The depicted Soyuz T-6 cover ex lot 2852 and lot 2878 are not flown. Lot 2874 would need closer examination. 1982-88 twice flown covers exist, but look very different. The Soviet Salyut-7 postmark was not used in space with 260682 date. |
spaced out Member Posts: 3110 From: Paris, France Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 03-28-2008 11:41 AM
quote: Originally posted by Scott: IMO Lot 2333 looks like either an unknown autopen pattern or a forgery based on a known autopen pattern...
A very interesting signature that one. Shows the shakiness and slow execution of an AP but doesn't match the known patterns. I'd be extremely surprised if there was unknown Collins AP pattern and I'd consider the possibility that it's actually a very distorted Pattern 1.Covers are notorious for slippage under the AP machine, something can result in some very strange distortions of a pattern as the paper moves about. It looks to me like all the loops of the signature match those of pattern 1, as does the opening downstroke of the "C" of Collins. For me it's either that or a slowly-executed forgery based on that pattern. |
Ken Havekotte Member Posts: 2915 From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 03-28-2008 02:29 PM
For mjanovec--Very good and I don't know why I missed all 3 of those lots. It looks as though the Grissom is in the same forgery hand on both the GT-3 cover lots; and Young, too, I feel is bogus. The GT-4 crew signed cover is not authentic in my opinion, not just with the White, but the McDivitt as well. Thanks for pointing those out. |
mjanovec Member Posts: 3811 From: Midwest, USA Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 03-28-2008 04:10 PM
quote: Originally posted by Ken Havekotte: The GT-4 crew signed cover is not authentic in my opinion, not just with the White, but the McDivitt as well. Thanks for pointing those out.
Thanks for confirming my suspicions. I thought the McDivitt was likely bad, but the Ed White was the dead giveaway for me. |
spaced out Member Posts: 3110 From: Paris, France Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 03-28-2008 04:56 PM
Although this may seem like a lot of bogus signatures it's worth bearing in mind that the Regency sale has a far greater volume of signed material than the other space sales, which leaves lots of genuine material on offer.The percentage of forgeries here probably reflects fairly accurately their distribution in the collections of space enthusiasts. |
gliderpilotuk Member Posts: 3398 From: London, UK Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 03-29-2008 07:29 AM
quote: Originally posted by stsmithva: I was about to write something similar, since I e-mailed Mr. Lipkin about lot 2058, described as Shepard's actual flown Randall knife, and within hours it had been pulled.
Before we go too far in heaping praise...As the consignor, it's a pity that my consignment listing was not read by the auction house. It CLEARLY stated "NOT FLOWN". I am very disappointed that my items have been included amid so many forgeries and fakes AND that I hear about one of my items being pulled through this board, rather than via personal email. It would not have been hard to change the description as Goldberg have done with a similar item. I am far for being a large consignor as I have no aspirations to being a dealer, but those of you who have dealt with me will know that I pride myself in the authenticity of what I sell. This is demonstrated by the fact that none of my signed consignments are identified as dubious. I just wish other sellers and auction houses took the same care... Paul |
mikelarson Member Posts: 293 From: Port Washington, NY Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 03-29-2008 11:24 AM
I just finished looking at the catalog and reading this thread. Wow, there is absolutely no excuse for the high number of dubious items in this auction. You expect it on Ebay, but not in reputable auction houses like RS. Especially troubling is that many of the forgeries are so obvious.If I were a consignor or bidder with Regency, I would voice my displeasure loud and clear. It's not enough to pull just items in question and say you're sorry, you should consider postponing the entire auction and have every item reviewed. And blaming the high number of questionable items in the catalog on "deadlines" makes me wonder where Regency's priorities are. Regency and the other auction houses need to take the lead in helping to fight forgeries. Putting everything they receive in their catalog and then saying they're sorry after the fact isn't good enough. Even though there are some nice items in this auction that look authentic and are things I've been looking for I'm not going to bid on them out of principle. I'll keep my bids and money to Heritage and RR. Mike Larson |
machbusterman Member Posts: 1778 From: Dunfermline, Fife, Scotland Registered: May 2004
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posted 03-29-2008 06:19 PM
If I recall, there were quite a number of items in the previous Regency Superior auction catalog that were listed incorrectly... and not as per the consignors consignment listings. What's the point in having a consignor accurately describe a piece if that information is ignored/overlooked?Come on Regency, your auctions are usually first class... You need to get your act together otherwise you will lose consignors/bidders and that surely will not be good for business? As for pulling an item from the auction and the consignor finding out about it on cS BEFORE the consignor had been contacted.... that just seems unethical and unprofessional IMHO. - Derek |
Alan Lipkin Member Posts: 78 From: Beverly Hills, CA USA Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 04-02-2008 05:50 PM
I just returned from the Smithsonian conference in Washington, DC and read the thread. Truthfully I am very disappointed in myself for allowing many of these items to slip by. I agree that apologies and withdrawal alone are not enough. I will promise to have the autographs in our next sale checked before publication. For the meantime the following lots have already been pulled from the sale: 2028, 2029, 2033, 2034, 2037, 2038, 2040, 2043, 2044, 5026, 2083, 2085, 2086 These have been shown to be Riser forgeries.We will be working for the next few days on the autographs and will remove items in that category as well. When the knife item came up, I was leaving for the Washington conference and neglected to contact the consignor. My fault and I apologize to him. With his permission, I will run it again described properly in October, otherwise He will get it back, his choice. I do appreciate th input from this list and will take your admonitions to heart. In slight defense, I will state that we try to have as broad a selection of space material as possible in our sales with much of interest for as many collectors as possible. Occasionally the breadth overwhelms us. We will do better in the future. Keep looking here for further withdrawals & corrections. Alan Lipkin |
mikelarson Member Posts: 293 From: Port Washington, NY Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 04-03-2008 09:01 AM
Hi Alan,Your presence in this forum and comments are appreciated. Best Regards, Mike Larson |
Alan Lipkin Member Posts: 78 From: Beverly Hills, CA USA Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 04-03-2008 02:45 PM
Just for your information, we are in the process of pulling several lots from the auction. These include lots: 2051, 2181, 2325, 2335, 2339, 2343, 2468, 2470, 2615.Also the following will have corrections added to their descriptions: 2852 and 2878 NOT FLOWN. The following will be noted as containing autopens: 2532, 2591, 2597, 2676, 2989, 3012, 3016. Now for some other items; several items were mentioned as questionalble or bad. I spoke with the consignor of some of them and here are the results: Lot #2321 Armstrong signature was an in-person signature obtained at the Doug Sanders Golf Tournement in Texas in the early 1990s. Lot #2340 was obtained at the same time with the Aldrin being added later at a public signing and the Collins added at a Kim Poor signing. Both of these are 100% genuine. Lot #2324, from the same consignor is also an excellent example of Armstrong's signature, but the source can not be recalled. Lots #2568, 2569, 2570 were also consigned by this well-known Texas collector. He purchased the Slayton signed covers at Superior years ago in a large lot, the Leonov and Kubasov signatures were acquired with the assistance of Ivan Kolotov of the Gagarin Museum who was in Texas and spent a good deal of time with this collector. While we can all agree that some items deserve to have been pulled from this auction, it would be to the benefit of the hobby as a whole if we didn't knee-jerk believe that every slightly atypical Armstrong is not real. It puts fear in the novice that everything is bad and we can lose future collectors who might become too wary to collect. I know that this has happened in the sports collecting area, we do not want it to occur in space. One more thing: there are a great many signed Apollo 12 items in this sale (as there have been before). Many are from this mega-collector in Houston. He has receipts for the autographs of all three members of that crew, who signed for him many times. These are NOT forgeries by any stretch, just seeing them in quantity maight make you think otherwise, but that is not the case. Please let me know if there are any other lots you would like me to check OFF LIST so we do not tarnish good items in the sale. If you still disagree or would like to discuss any items on list afterward that is fine. I do not seek to limit debate, but to be fair to the majority of our consignors. Alan |
Richard Stonely unregistered
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posted 04-03-2008 04:06 PM
This message has been removed at the request of its author. Further, the member has asked that his account be deactivated. |
collectSPACE Admin Administrator Posts: 627 From: Houston, TX, USA Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 04-05-2008 09:01 AM
This topic, which was established to discuss the May 2008 space memorabilia auction to be held by Regency-Superior Galleries, drifted to a tangential subject as a result of the preceding post, which has since been removed at the request of its author. As the subsequent posts did not directly apply to the upcoming sale, they have been archived and removed. If there are questions regarding this action, members may e-mail contact@collectspace.com. |
Steke New Member Posts: From: Registered:
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posted 04-06-2008 05:55 PM
Alan:You are to be commended on your handling of these lots. Keep up the good work! |