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Author
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Topic: Thoughts on the end of the space shuttle era
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Fra Mauro
Member Posts: 1587
From: Bethpage, N.Y.
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 07-06-2011 06:32 AM
   
Now that it's almost over, how do we feel inside about the program ending? For we space enthusiasts, it's more than just the science -- how about it? |
jimsz
Member Posts: 616
From:
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted 07-06-2011 06:39 AM
I am sorry to see US manned spaceflight ending but am in no way sorry to see the space shuttle program ending.I hope NASA can regain some sort of vision once again. |
ejectr
Member Posts: 1751
From: Killingly, CT
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 07-06-2011 07:08 AM
Sorry to see the end of its unique capability, but happy to look to the future and what it may bring us. Hopefully good things regarding space exploration. |
issman1
Member Posts: 1042
From: UK
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted 07-06-2011 08:50 AM
quote:
Originally posted by jimsz:
I am sorry to see US manned spaceflight ending
I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. Even the shuttle's final commander has said the next Americans to launch from the US won't necessarily be NASA employees. They shall probably wear the emblem of a commercial US company. I'll be the first to admit that following NASA's fortunes has been just as painful as the brutal demise of Kane in Alien. But just be grateful you don't have the succession of shortsighted and witless governments we've endured in the UK, where human spaceflight is non-existent. The shuttle has been the space programme of my generation the world over - and has involved the world. But now NASA astronauts must once again be given the chance to leave this world for another. So try being optimistic. |
Fra Mauro
Member Posts: 1587
From: Bethpage, N.Y.
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 07-06-2011 09:12 AM
Many feelings for me -- pride in the shuttle program for one. Some sadness, maybe a little bitterness, in the fact that this might be the beginning of the end of U.S. manned spaceflight. I understand that the shuttle is at the end of its' lifetime but there isn't a clear program, with a clear goal coming on the horizon. |
jimsz
Member Posts: 616
From:
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted 07-06-2011 09:54 AM
quote:
Originally posted by issman1:
I think that's a bit of an exaggeration. Even the shuttle's final commander has said the next Americans to launch from the US won't necessarily be NASA employees. They shall probably wear the emblem of a commercial US company.
I don't look at commercial space fliers as explorers. Actually, the shuttle has been doing for 20 years what commercial space travel should have been doing. Go up, deliver a repair crew to fix a toilet, add a module, perform pay to play experiments and come home. An important job but not one for NASA. That's not the same to me as an explorer on the level of M-G-A.Commercial space fliers have a future. NASA's manned space program is shortly going to be a thing of the past. |
alanh_7
Member Posts: 1252
From: Ajax, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 07-06-2011 10:01 AM
A feeling of great success mixxed with sadness. Unlike the end of Apollo where there was another program in the pipeline to look forward to, it will be many years before another manned launch occurs from U.S soil and one has to ask the question. Why did did it have to come to this? A friend of mine who has worked with the program since the Apollo days (and continues to do so)pointed out the lyrics from the old Brooks and Dunn song that Bob Crippen applied to the shuttle program "Your gonna miss me when I am gone." We sure will. |
Fra Mauro
Member Posts: 1587
From: Bethpage, N.Y.
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 07-06-2011 10:11 AM
If the American program is coming to an end, then Americans have no one to blame but themselves and history will show that malls, sports, reality TV and insincere politicians became more important to us than space exploration. |
spaceman1953
Member Posts: 953
From: South Bend, IN
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 07-06-2011 10:14 AM
I watched "We Do All We Can Do" this morning on the Internet. I could not believe the sadness "I" felt at the end of the program, a sadness I just don't remember feeling at the end of Apollo. Probably because I thought at the end of Apollo, we would be moving on to bigger and better things! Heartfelt thanks to every worker who gave us 30 years of history. |
issman1
Member Posts: 1042
From: UK
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted 07-06-2011 10:15 AM
There haven't been any real space "explorers" since Cernan and Schmitt. What NASA has being doing since 1981 is fanning the flames in the hope that a US administration would come along and definitively lay plans for sustainable human exploration of the planets.That has not happened, including the Vision for Space Exploration, and thus NASA's shuttle was the-be-all-and-end-all. Ever since the end of Apollo, US politicians can't seem to grasp the idea that meaningful space exploration by humans cannot be done on a shoestring. If the fledgling US commercial sector was to find a way of easing NASA's burden then you should be supportive. Taking over low earth orbit activities and forging public-private partnerships is a start. Unless you wish for STS-135 to be the end? |
BNorton
Member Posts: 150
From:
Registered: Oct 2005
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posted 07-06-2011 10:25 AM
I too am proud of the shuttle program and the US space program in general. History will be kind to the space shuttle. Every flight in the shuttle program is a great time for America, and the flight of STS 135 will be no different. What will be different will be at wheels stop: no second or third generation orbiter waiting, no clear path, only some “ideas” based on false premises. I cannot find anything to be optimistic about, and my level of pessimism raises with everything I read about the future. However, at this point in time, the shuttle, and especially those who had the dream and made it happen, should be celebrated.
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Tykeanaut
Member Posts: 2212
From: Worcestershire, England, UK.
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 07-06-2011 10:56 AM
I too was sad when Apollo ended but at least there was something to look forward to. Skylab, ASTP and the shuttle were all up and coming. With the end of the shuttle though, which has been a tremendous US achievement I don't feel anywhere near as optimistic. |
nasamad
Member Posts: 2121
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 07-06-2011 11:17 AM
I don't remember Apollo ending so this is the first time I can remember a program ending, and I must say I feel really sad about it. I feel sad that probably thousands of people who spent endless hours checking and double checking the tiniest of details will be made redundant. Sad that KSC will sit dormant for however many years as a memorial to manned spaceflight until who knows when they launch a manned spacecraft again. And sad that those wonderful craft will never again launch into space, for me to sit in my back garden desperately trying to spot them flying over, towards or docked to the ISS, instead they will be looked at in museums as relics of a past spaceflight history. Many thanks to the women and men who built, maintained, and flew those great machines. |
Fezman92
Member Posts: 1031
From: New Jersey, USA
Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 07-06-2011 11:20 AM
Up until last year or so, when it really hit me that the shuttle program was ending, I never really thought about the fact that one day it might end. I was born 11 years after STS-1 so I've only known Shuttle missions. Yes I read about MGA, ASTP, Skylab, etc but that's just the thing. I read about them, I never saw them live. I've seen shuttle launches on NASA.gov launch live, and I grew up watching and reading about the building of the ISS. Never did I think that the shuttle would one day not fly. I've always had a bit of this somewhat romantic silk-scarf kind of view about the shuttle program, even knowing the risks. When Columbia happened, I was as everyone was devastated. When 114 launched, I was very proud, seeing Discovery launch (and it was the only time I saw a shuttle launch being showed live on the news). I still have that Tivoed DVD of the STS-114 launch (somewhere) and my STS-114 Return to Flight t-shirt and poster. Yes it is sad to see the end of a great era, but all good things must come to an end. As for the future, well I don't see it as the end of America sending Americans into space from America, I see it as in the words of Robert Frost "The road less traveled." Who knows, perhaps this "road less traveled" may indeed be the only way America and humanity can get beyond LEO for reasons other than politics. At any rate, I will follow whatever happens with as much interest as I have done with the Shuttle |
issman1
Member Posts: 1042
From: UK
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted 07-06-2011 11:35 AM
Pessimism clearly outweighs optimism on this discussion. What NASA needs is a lobby or perhaps a more informed, more interested and more intuitive general US population. There's no doubt apathy has played its part but so has politics.Insist that your politicians come to a consensus about what NASA should do. It's all well and nice to order the NASA workforce to build a big rocket and fancy crew capsule, to replace the shuttle, but how about a destination for them Mr. President (and the same can be asked of those wanting his job)?  |
ea757grrl
Member Posts: 729
From: South Carolina
Registered: Jul 2006
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posted 07-06-2011 12:03 PM
I'll miss this supremely capable vehicle, and I have a lot of memories I will cherish (notably of watching Discovery lift off, in person) but I won't miss the tension I always felt every time I watched a launch or re-entry. The memories of Challenger and Columbia are still too keenly felt, and every time I watched, it would be with fingers crossed and a prayer sent skyward that the wonderful old machine would work one more time. It's a great machine, but it's time.If I have regrets, they're centered around the fact that, for two decades and change, our next direction in spaceflight has been something that's been kicked down the road for later -- and that has now culminated in the huge question mark we now face. And if I have hope, it's that private enterprise, which isn't constrained by the winds of political whim, will get a chance to start carrying the torch. |
Michael Davis
Member Posts: 528
From: Houston, Texas
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 07-06-2011 01:01 PM
A little relief since I believe we have pressed our luck too many times with this design. If we can get through that initial 9 minute climb to orbit, I will be grateful that we can move on to other options somewhere down the line. I feel that there will be better and safer ways to get to LEO in the next few years. But I will forever remember the Hubble repair flights - those are what I will think of when I see the Shuttle in museums. |
SBIV-B
Member Posts: 47
From: Dacula, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2008
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posted 07-06-2011 01:55 PM
I am going to throw this out there - knowing it may not be a popular view - that I have felt for years that the whole shuttle program from it's inception derailed the direction that I wanted the space program to go after Apollo.Which is of course beyond earth orbit to... somewhere. Fully acknowledging the engineering and scientific accomplishments of the program, and the brave crews that flew it, in some thought processes the shuttle set back the space program the corresponding number of years of it's existence. I think those that wanted more from NASA after Apollo know what I am trying to articulate. I think maybe after 30 plus years, we at least now know reusable does not mean cheaper, or better. Space flight of whatever means will always be fascinating to me, but I really never got fired up for the shuttle. The destination was always part of the allure! |
Tykeanaut
Member Posts: 2212
From: Worcestershire, England, UK.
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 07-06-2011 03:30 PM
I agree, a destination is of great importance and interest. I too was hoping and thought that humankind would have by now visited Mars for example.This may too be controversial, but as good as the shuttle programme was, for me after a while it merely marked time until a direction was established. Sadly that direction is still unknown. |
dogcrew5369
Member Posts: 750
From: Statesville, NC
Registered: Mar 2009
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posted 07-06-2011 04:08 PM
Whether you were for or against Constellation, at least it had goals set forth. We don't need goals for those of us whole follow the space program, but for the youth of America who yearn for something to grasp onto and give them hope. I love the shuttle and ISS, but they don't inspire our school children like M-G-A did. If the youth are excited they get adults excited and support will follow. We need a goal of the Moon or Mars to keep our young people grasping. |
issman1
Member Posts: 1042
From: UK
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted 07-06-2011 04:45 PM
There are no shortage of destinations but they're out of reach because of no funding and no will.  I think the recent close pass by the asteroid 2011 MD, and the upcoming approach by 2005 YU55, should have persuaded politicians in major spacefaring nations of the utmost urgency in ensuring we possess the means of protecting humankind from rogue objects. And to begin rudimentary colonization of low earth orbit, high earth orbit and near earth space. Constellation need not have ended in its entirety: by all means get rid of Ares I and put less emphasis upon replicating ISS on the Moon. A reorganized Constellation (even today) could form the integral part of a methodical and sustainable strategy of colonization involving commercial entities and global space agencies. The shuttle era is over, so respectfully I ask people to get over it, and start lobbying the powers-that-be if you really want something for the youth to grasp onto and give them hope. |
BNorton
Member Posts: 150
From:
Registered: Oct 2005
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posted 07-06-2011 07:54 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SBIV-B:
I have felt for years that the whole shuttle program from it's inception derailed the direction that I wanted the space program to go after Apollo.Which is of course beyond earth orbit to... somewhere.
The plan with the shuttle all along was to go somewhere out of earth orbit. NASA requested a shuttle and a space station, and only got the shuttle initially. The shuttle had nowhere to go. The station, the shuttle's destination, was to be a departure point for Mars and other destinations.When NASA finally got the station, along came another unplanned event: making the Russians station partners (i.e., international cooperation), which placed the station in a useless orbit and limited the payload capability of the shuttle to station. Besides international cooperation, a big thing got in the way of going beyond earth orbit, something that is still around to this day: not enough money. |
DChudwin
Member Posts: 1096
From: Lincolnshire IL USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 07-06-2011 08:25 PM
While I am very pro-space, I think it is time for the shuttle program to end with STS-135. The shuttle was sold in 1972 as being a safe, low-cost, routine way to get into space. It has not been safe (Challenger, Columbia), and is inherently risky with SRBs and no escape system. It is not low cost ($450 million per launch, or $1.3 billion per launch including developmental costs). It is not routine (flights every 2 weeks were promised but 9 missions in 1985 was the max). The $2 billion a year is better spent on exploration beyond low earth orbit and not on a flawed, expensive-to-maintain system. |
Orthon
Member Posts: 144
From: San Tan Valley, Arizona 85143
Registered: May 2002
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posted 07-06-2011 11:13 PM
As Lyndon Johnson said back in the late 60's, regarding the Apollo infrastructure - "knowing the American people and the way they are, they'll probably piss it all away". By not planning and funding a follow on program to to shuttle, that's exactly what has happened - again. Maybe they just don't deserve it.
Two years ago I predicted that we wouldn't return to the Moon. It will be quite a while before the commercial companies get up to speed. |
DJS
Member Posts: 23
From: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Registered: Jun 2011
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posted 07-07-2011 10:55 AM
I am sad to see the shuttle program end. I feel that the program would have been better if NASA had been given funding to build the shuttle that they had originally wanted. Originally the shuttle was to be fully reusable with a fly back booster. NASA was not able to get funding for it. If they had, the shuttle would never have had the problems of O-rings and foam falling off the ET. |
Jay Chladek
Member Posts: 2272
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 07-07-2011 12:17 PM
When we discuss pessimism vs. optimism, I prefer to take the approach of realism. Sure the shuttle program is ending, but at the same time even if shuttle was to continue, it certainly wouldn't be flying at the level of even two years ago now that ISS construction is essentially done. So all shuttle would essentially be doing is what it is going to do on 135, send supplies up and bring stuff down. Granted in a couple years, NASA is going to miss the down mass capability of one shuttle flight versus several ATV, Progress and H-2 flights, but essentially shuttle is now a flying 18 wheeler just hauling stuff and not much else.While it would be nice to have a firm program further in development, those arguements in my opinion are for another thread. I am here to honor what shuttle was and help try and write what its legacy will ultimately be. At least I can look back fondly on shuttle and marvel that it did perform as well as it did, in spite of its budget and mission limitations. And it certainly has capabilities that will be fondly missed. At the same time though, I believe the time has come to move on to the next step because one of the problems with drawing board programs has been that they all got cancelled partly because shuttle WAS flying. Without shuttle to fall back on, it is my hope that it will light a fire under the next program to get far enough along for hardware to be built since there is NOTHING otherwise. |
SkyMan1958
Member Posts: 867
From: CA.
Registered: Jan 2011
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posted 07-07-2011 02:12 PM
Thank God for the end of the Shuttle program! It has been a horrific boondoggle from day one. As mentioned previously, it was neither cheaper nor safer... and the reason for that is that the politicians hadn't a clue as to what the shuttle was for except as a jobs program. I'm reminded of the old "Fram" oil filters ads, "You can pay me now, or you can pay me later". By trying to do things on the cheap the politicians ensured that in the long run the shuttle would be much more expensive. The same thing has occurred with the ISS, which in my opinion is another useless waste of taxpayers dollars. Both of these programs have sucked tens of billions of dollars out of the unmanned scientific exploration of the solar system and the development of an inexpensive ground to orbit capability. As far as I'm concerned the only useful information produced by the shuttle and the ISS has been how to construct items in space. Essentially all the other information could have been found out by robotic probes at far less cost. Let's also be honest about one other thing. The Russian manned program essentially ended with the end of the Soviet Union. The main reason the Russians are still flying people into space is because the US taxpayer is subsidizing them. I don't see the politicians getting a clue anytime in the near future. I believe that in the long run the incremental increase in capability caused by technology and the resultant decrease in cost will allow humans to return to space to really explore and colonize the solar system. Therefore I'd much rather see NASA funding being used to try out different sorts of technology... to be used as a testbed to see if some hypothetical theory has a valid real world end result. In the end everything comes down to dollars and cents as far as the space program goes. We must lower the cost of a kilo to orbit. Once that drops significantly everything else becomes viable. Therefore we should be focusing our money on technologies that allow a significantly lower cost for launching objects from the Earth into orbit. |
APG85
Member Posts: 306
From:
Registered: Jan 2008
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posted 07-07-2011 07:00 PM
I think its a sad state of affairs that the space shuttle, at it's peak operating efficiency and capability is being retired. Just because it is 30 years old doesn't mean in any way it has exceeded it's usefulness. Our aerospace industries will suffer horribly from this and it's another indication of our nation slowly becoming less of a superpower. I certainly never imagined that we would end this program without a discernible replacement... |
Aztecdoug
Member Posts: 1405
From: Huntington Beach
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 07-08-2011 10:08 AM
How do I feel? Strangely I find that the song Bye Bye Miss American Pie seems to resonate my feelings about now. |
jimsz
Member Posts: 616
From:
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted 07-08-2011 10:56 AM
quote:
Originally posted by APG85:
I think its a sad state of affairs that the space shuttle, at it's peak operating efficiency and capability is being retired. Just because it is 30 years old doesn't mean in any way it has exceeded it's usefulness.
Other than trucker missions to the ISS the shuttle serves no purpose.The sooner NASA rids itself of the shuttle albatross the sooner they can find some competent leadership that can form a vision to move forward. 30 years of the shuttle was 20 years too many. |
John K. Rochester
Member Posts: 1292
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 07-08-2011 11:22 AM
It's sad to see the Shuttle program come to an end. I was seriously looking forward to Orion/Constellation to ignite greater interest in Manned Spaceflight other than LEO, but alas... I wish the next program had goals closer to space exploration. From the Wright Brothers first flight in 1903 to the first man in space in 1961... a mere 58 years! Half a century! Eight years later we had a man on the moon! In the 42 years since then ...almost another half century, where are we? You would have thought that exploration of space would have progressed much more than it did. "We need to be a part of it... we need to LEAD it!" |
carmelo
Member Posts: 1047
From: Messina, Sicilia, Italia
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 07-08-2011 11:36 AM
How do I feel? Sad. And also more sad for the future of the manned program. |
Tykeanaut
Member Posts: 2212
From: Worcestershire, England, UK.
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 07-08-2011 11:45 AM
As I posted before very sad, this has left an awfully large void until something else (hopefully) comes along.What really annoyed me today though was a BBC journalist talking about more money perhaps being spent here on Earth instead of space. Where does she think the cash tills are in orbit exactly? |
Spacepsycho
Member Posts: 818
From: Huntington Beach, Calif.
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted 07-08-2011 11:49 AM
Regardless if you were pro or anti shuttle, the fact remains the orbiters were incredibly well built machines that performed brilliantly and we learned volumes about working and living in space. Could we have done it cheaper? Sure. Were the orbiters too expensive to operate? Yes. Were they limited to LEO? Yes. But the program was all we were allowed to have in the 70's and it was an unqualified success. It's a sad day for America, but not just because it's the last flight of the shuttle, but for what it represents in the loss for the future of our country's vision and dedication for our kids. |
Aztecdoug
Member Posts: 1405
From: Huntington Beach
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 07-08-2011 01:19 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Spacepsycho:
It's a sad day for America, but not just because it's the last flight of the shuttle, but for what it represents in the loss for the future of our countries vision and dedication for our kids.
You put down in words what my heart feels is true. I also can not help but ponder if this how it felt to live in Rome in the 4th and 5th century.I just feel so much sadness for my children. |
David Carey
Member Posts: 782
From:
Registered: Mar 2009
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posted 07-08-2011 01:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by SkyMan1958:
As far as I'm concerned the only useful information produced by the shuttle and the ISS has been how to construct items in space. Essentially all the other information could have been found out by robotic probes at far less cost.
Without wanting to debate the overall pros and cons or your other points, learning how to build things in space strikes me as a task with merit. I also think the Hubble fix and subsequent life-extending upgrades were good examples of the Shuttle's value. I'm constantly in awe of what has been learned/imaged from HST and of course the vastness of unexplored territory revealed therein. Maybe I'm missing the alternatives but it seems like without the Shuttle, no HST. Overall the Shuttle at least kept us engaged in manned spaceflight activity. If I could allocate my own tax dollars I'd keep it going, warts and all, over any number of other government expenditures. Unmanned exploration should also continue - these efforts too bring real value (knowledge) with relative economy so no disagreement there. Either way and to the topic at hand, couldn't help get a bit of a lump in my throat when Atlantis (successfully!) lifted off the pad today... |
cspg
Member Posts: 6210
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006
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posted 07-08-2011 02:25 PM
As viewed by Swiss cartoonist Chapatte published in the International Herald Tribune. |
blue_eyes
Member Posts: 165
From: North Carolina, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 07-08-2011 02:28 PM
A couple years ago, someone on the JPL Mars Rovers team said a phrase: "super mega-bummer". Apparently they'd hit a major snag (which they triumphantly overcame)... but the words stuck in the back of my head.So today, upon seeing Atlantis STS-135 MAGNIFICENT launch, my heart swelled with pride... my eyes filled with tears... and I felt SO PROUD. Then I got a big lump in my throat... and all I could think was "super mega-bummer." This dream should not be ending. |
tegwilym
Member Posts: 2331
From: Sturgeon Bay, WI
Registered: Jan 2000
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posted 07-08-2011 02:53 PM
Sad. |
xlsteve
Member Posts: 391
From: Holbrook MA, USA
Registered: Jul 2008
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posted 07-08-2011 02:57 PM
"It is difficult to say what is impossible, for the dream of yesterday is the hope of today and the reality of tomorrow." -- Dr. Robert Goddard |
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