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Author
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Topic: Messages beneath "Old 66" helicopter
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ea757grrl
Member Posts: 798
From: South Carolina
Registered: Jul 2006
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posted 04-19-2007 09:42 PM
   
Through a rather odd set of circumstances, I had the good fortune to watch a few minutes of the Apollo 11 recovery network pool feed that I hadn't seen before. It shed some light on something I'd heard, but hadn't been able to confirm in detail, and I'm hoping maybe some of you know where something is that can help me.The star of the recovery was "Old 66," the SH-3 from HS-4 that recovered the crews of Apollo 8, 10, 11, 12 and 13. I'd heard that, for each mission, a special message was applied to the bottom of the helicopter to welcome the Apollo crew back to Earth. During the recovery, pool reporter Ron Nessen (the same one that went on to work for Gerald Ford, and hosted "Saturday Night Live" once) mentioned that "Old 66" had the message "HAIL COLUMBIA" applied to its belly. He also mentioned that a couple nights before, he'd sneaked a look beneath the helicopter and saw that the message from Apollo 10 was still there: "HEY THERE CHARLIE BROWN" (or "HEY DERE CHARLIE BROWN" -- that's how he pronounced it, with the "d" sound). Now my question: Do pictures exist -- or has anyone otherwise seen evidence -- of how this was applied to the helicopter, and how it looked? I've heard theories that it was done with tape (i.e., electrical tape), or that it was something somehow stuck on. I'd love to find pictures that show how this was done, and how it looked. Also, does anyone know what the "messages" were for the other Apollo missions? |
Obviousman
Member Posts: 438
From: NSW, Australia
Registered: May 2005
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posted 04-20-2007 03:26 AM
Unsure if any photos exist, though such messages have been detailed in various autobiographies.How they were applied? Depends. Something like "thousand mile an hour tape" might have been used... but then again, it may have been spray-painted on the fuselage. Possibly related, you may or may not be aware of a time-honoured tradition of "zapping" aircraft. When aircraft visited 'away' bases, squadrons would often "zap" the aircraft with some type of insignia or message in spray-paint (to record their visit, and say 'this is OUR turf'). When aircraft go in for respray, the "zaps" are most often removed / painted over. Perhaps the HS groundies spray-painted the messages on, keeping them there as a 'badge of honour' until the next respray?
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Dwayne Day
Member Posts: 532
From:
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted 04-20-2007 09:05 AM
quote:
Possibly related, you may or may not be aware of a time-honoured tradition of "zapping" aircraft. When aircraft visited 'away' bases, squadrons would often "zap" the aircraft with some type of insignia or message in spray-paint (to record their visit, and say 'this is OUR turf').
Quite common with carrier aircraft during Vietnam. When a plane landed on a carrier on which it was not based, it would often get the name of the new carrier unceremoniously spray-painted on it. I've heard that in a few cases, when a plane stayed on the ship for a longer period of time, they acquired a lot of graffiti.
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Dwayne Day
Member Posts: 532
From:
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted 04-20-2007 09:08 AM
I don't have an answer to the original question, but wanted to add a little story. In December I went aboard the USS Midway Museum in San Diego harbor. It is a beautiful museum ship, lovingly preserved, with many fine aircraft. Onboard is an SH-3 painted as the famous "66" aircraft from the Apollo recoveries. This prompted me to wonder if this was the actual aircraft.Some websurfing revealed that it is NOT the original aircraft. The original actually was lost at sea. It sank off the coast back in the 1970s. However, a website claims that some divers have located the wreck and want to recover it. I did some surfing and managed to get in contact with the Apollo era pilot of "66." He said that he is unaware of the wreck being located and he doesn't believe it. I have not followed up with the people who created the original website to see what information they have about the original aircraft. I'm a bit of a naval buff and plan on visiting the Midway again next month and hopefully the USS Hornet Museum later this summer, which also has an SH-3 painted like "66." |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 50525
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 04-20-2007 09:54 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Dwayne Day:
Some websurfing revealed that it is NOT the original aircraft. The original actually was lost at sea.
This old thread started in 2000 and continued through 2004, discusses the potential for 66's location and recovery. The Yahoo group to which the thread links was last updated in September 2006, when the status of the effort was reported: The effort lost much of its momenteum, for a number of reasons.Most importantly, however, was an eyewitness account from the rescue crew stating that the helo 66 broke up on impact, and thus would be extremely difficult to pinpoint, and near impossible to salvage. |
Dwayne Day
Member Posts: 532
From:
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted 04-20-2007 05:24 PM
Thanks for that info. I'm curious as to how "broken up" the aircraft would actually get, however. If she slid back and hit the water I imagine that the tail rotor shattered, then she would have spun over and the main rotor hit and smashed apart. With the possible exception of the tail breaking off, I cannot see how the main fuselage would have broken up. The fact that all four crewmembers made it out successfully (although the pilot later died of his injuries) indicates that the helo must not have sunk immediately.Although the SH-3 had a boatlike hull and two sponsons on either side, the helo is not capable of landing on water. A big problem is that the heavy engines are above the fuselage and it will tip over as soon as there is no lift from the rotor. The sponsons might have allowed it to remain upright for a short period of time. I conversed with a former SH-3 pilot on the net and he pointed out one serious vulnerability for a water landing with that model--there was a big hole cut in the floor of the fuselage for lowering the dipping sonar, meaning that water would poor in as soon as it settled on the ocean. That pilot also doubted the report that the helo was "pulled" back and down to the water by the dipping sonar cable. He said that it is more likely that the pilot lost altitude and control while in a hover and backed it into the water. He said that this was actually rather common for the SH-3 and he had done it himself. |
moorouge
Member Posts: 2486
From: U.K.
Registered: Jul 2009
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posted 01-13-2013 01:54 AM
An old thread, but an answer.Under the astronaut recovery helicopter for Apollo 10 and under a pair of large eyes were the words "HELLO DE'RE CHARLIE BROWN". As far as is known, this was the only time such messages were applied to the recovery helicopters. |
ea757grrl
Member Posts: 798
From: South Carolina
Registered: Jul 2006
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posted 01-13-2013 03:27 PM
"Hello Dere Charlie Brown" was still painted on the bottom of "Old 66" up until a day or two before the Apollo 11 splashdown. It was pointed out to some of the HS-4 crewmen (IIRC, by NBC correspondent Ron Nessen, part of the TV pool aboard Hornet) that the reference to Apollo 10 was still there. The HS-4 guys then painted out the Apollo 10 message and replaced it with the words "Hail Columbia." Nessen talked about this during the live broadcast of the Apollo 11 recovery. Additionally, I was able to verify some information about the messages and their application with "Hornet Plus Three" author Bob Fish, who double-checked the information for me with 66's co-pilot on the Apollo 11 recovery. (Edited to clarify the latter sentence.) |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3782
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 05-26-2023 09:28 PM
The Naval Helicopter Association Historical Society website here has a photo of the Charlie Brown message under Helicopter 66: |
Andy Anderson
Member Posts: 118
From: Perth, Australia
Registered: Dec 2009
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posted 05-27-2023 07:16 AM
I have some slides taken by a crewmember of USS Iwo Jima and had to "overexpose" this somewhat blurry Apollo 13 image of "66" to highlight the underside of the fuselage. Unfortunately, from the angle that the photo was taken it does not fully show in any detail the area that the Apollo 10 message was applied. It must have been just post Apollo 13 recovery as there are five Command Module mission marks on the nose. However, on the sliding hatch just beneath the winch, this little tag was applied.  And here is another image of "66" on the way to recover Apollo 13.  ... and with its three companions.  |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3782
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 05-27-2023 08:03 AM
That fifth CM recovery marker (for Apollo 13) was already on the side of Helicopter 66 when it landed on the Iwo Jima with the Apollo 13 crew onboard.The helicopter crewman in the right seat had reached out the side window and uncovered the marker on the side of the helicopter before it landed on the deck of the Iwo Jima. |
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