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Author
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Topic: Of commanders and not
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Paul78zephyr
Member Posts: 678
From: Hudson, MA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 07-31-2006 12:39 PM
  
Just looking at the M-G-A era its interesting to see who commanded and who did not under these circumstances:Rookie commanders (no previous flight):
McDivitt G4
Armstrong G8
(See would have commanded G9) Two missions, no command
Collins G10, A11
Aldrin G12, A11
Bean A12, SL2
Gordon G11, A12 Flew as non commander after commanding
Lovell G7, G12(C), A8, A13(C) Please add if you have any comments
Paul
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PowerCat
Member Posts: 196
From: Herington, KS, USA
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 07-31-2006 12:46 PM
One other astronaut to add to the Non-command after commanding a flight would be John Young: G3, G10 C, A10, A16 C.Good list and very interesting. I had forgotton about a couple of these.
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nasamad
Member Posts: 2141
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 07-31-2006 12:52 PM
I think Collins was offered a Command (IIRC it was Apollo 14), if you include Skylab as an Apollo flight (well it was Apollo hardware) then Bean did command a mission. Plus Gordon did have command of Apollo 18 until cancellation.Borman was also a rookie Commander on Gemini 7 Adam |
WAWalsh
Member Posts: 809
From: Cortlandt Manor, NY
Registered: May 2000
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posted 07-31-2006 01:46 PM
Along with the correction for Alan Bean, if Skylab is included, then Gerry Carr gets added as a first-time commander. The early shuttle missions would also add to the list. |
FFrench
Member Posts: 3165
From: San Diego
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 07-31-2006 02:14 PM
quote:
Originally posted by WAWalsh:
The early shuttle missions would also add to the list.
I can't think of who - all of the early shuttle commanders had flown in space before. The only one there is possible debate about is Joe Engle, who flew a suborbital X-15 flight.
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Aztecdoug
Member Posts: 1405
From: Huntington Beach
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 07-31-2006 03:54 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Paul78zephyr:
Rookie commanders (no previous flight):
McDivitt G4
Armstrong G8
(See would have commanded G9)Please add if you have any comments
Paul
I think it would be safe to add Borman here too on GT-7. ------------------
Kind Regards Douglas Henry Enjoy yourself and have fun.... it is only a hobby!
http://home.earthlink.net/~aztecdoug/ |
star61
Member Posts: 294
From: Bristol UK
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 07-31-2006 04:26 PM
Think Collins was offered A17? |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 07-31-2006 04:41 PM
Where do the Mercury Astronauts fit into this equation? Do the solo flights that six of them flew in the Mercury era count as "commands." |
Tom
Member Posts: 1610
From: New York
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 07-31-2006 04:43 PM
Yes...Collins was offered the back-up CDR slot on "14" which would have put him in line to command "17". |
WAWalsh
Member Posts: 809
From: Cortlandt Manor, NY
Registered: May 2000
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posted 07-31-2006 05:13 PM
So much for my memory. I was working off Engle for STS-2 and did not think through the next group of launches. A quick check confirms my error, not a rookie in the lot otehr than Engle. |
Tom
Member Posts: 1610
From: New York
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 07-31-2006 05:49 PM
And to take it one step further, only 2 astronauts in history were only chosen as mission commanders...can you name them?
[Hint...it wasn't any of the Mercury astronauts.] |
Duke Of URL
Member Posts: 1316
From: Syracuse, NY
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 07-31-2006 06:59 PM
Armstrong and Borman. Right?But if you include Mercury as above, add the old Dynamic Pioneer, Scott Carpenter. And his pal Gus Grissom along with his fellow swabbos Wally Schirra and Al Shepard
[This message has been edited by Duke Of URL (edited August 01, 2006).] |
Paul78zephyr
Member Posts: 678
From: Hudson, MA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 07-31-2006 07:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Tom:
And to take it one step further, only 2 astronauts in history were only chosen as mission commanders...can you name them?
[Hint...it wasn't any of the Mercury astronauts.]
I must not understand the question correctly (commanded ALL missions flown): Shepard M1, A14
Grisson M2, G3
Schirra M5, G6
Cooper M6, G5
McDivitt G4, A9
Borman G7, A8
Armstrong G8, A11 Also when I started this thread my intention was to not label M7 astronauts as 'commanders' for those missions, include Skylab, and exclude the shuttle. 'Only M-G-A astonauts need apply'  |
KC Stoever
Member Posts: 1012
From: Denver, CO USA
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 07-31-2006 07:45 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Paul78zephyr:
I must not understand the question correctly (commanded ALL missions flown): Shepard M1, A14
Grisson M2, G3
Schirra M5, G6
Cooper M6, G5
McDivitt G4, A9
Borman G7, A8
Armstrong G8, A11 Also when I started this thread my intention was to not label M7 astronauts as 'commanders' for those missions, include Skylab, and exclude the shuttle. 'Only M-G-A astonauts need apply'
Er, Um. I'm confused. Glenn commanded MA-6. Carpenter commanded MA-7. It's kind of a Navy-Marine thing (see Schirra, Wally). Omissions about commanders and missions with respect to these facts (about commanding and missions) upthread are notable. IMHO. But perhaps I don't understand the framing question. [This message has been edited by KC Stoever (edited July 31, 2006).] |
Tom
Member Posts: 1610
From: New York
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 07-31-2006 08:08 PM
I didn't mean to make it confusing, but I was using the term "commander" in reference to having a crew assigned to them...that is why I hinted that it wasn't any of the Mercury astronauts.
The correct answer would be McDivitt and Armstrong.
All of their flight assignments (both prime and back-up) were as mission commander.
Borman was originally assigned as back-up pilot with Grissom for the first Gemini flight.
Elliot See was back-up pilot on Gemini 5.
Joe Engle was back-up LMP on Apollo 14. |
KC Stoever
Member Posts: 1012
From: Denver, CO USA
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 07-31-2006 08:20 PM
Ships have commanders. They need no crew. They need only missions.[On edit: Sorry: unclear pronoun referent. "They" in this context refers to commanders not to ships. Commanders generally have a mission--to survive the passage. To bring back new knowledge, etc. Commanders, as it happens, achieve missions with no crew aboard but themselves. Commanders are the crew.] [This message has been edited by KC Stoever (edited July 31, 2006).] |
Tom
Member Posts: 1610
From: New York
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 07-31-2006 08:26 PM
I stand corrected...there are 7.
Shepard, Grissom, Carpenter, Schirra, Cooper, McDivitt, and Armstrong. |
KC Stoever
Member Posts: 1012
From: Denver, CO USA
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 07-31-2006 08:47 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Tom:
I stand corrected...there are 7.
Shepard, Grissom, Carpenter, Schirra, Cooper, McDivitt, and Armstrong.
And John Glenn? |
ejectr
Member Posts: 1758
From: Killingly, CT
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 07-31-2006 09:12 PM
That's why in the aviation community they use the term "Pilot in Command". As long as he/she is in that left seat, either alone or with a plane full of people...he/she is "in command".As far as the Mercury spacecraft is concerned, they were DEFINITELY in command with one seat. All six of them....! |
Tom
Member Posts: 1610
From: New York
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 07-31-2006 09:22 PM
quote:
Originally posted by KC Stoever:
And John Glenn?
When John was assigned to STS-95 as Payload Specialist, he was no longer assigned as CDR only.
Same can be said for Deke who was DMP for Apollo / Soyuz mission. |
KC Stoever
Member Posts: 1012
From: Denver, CO USA
Registered: Oct 2002
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posted 07-31-2006 10:01 PM
John?You mean John Glenn, as in godspeed, or the honorable? |
Duke Of URL
Member Posts: 1316
From: Syracuse, NY
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 08-01-2006 10:26 AM
quote:
Originally posted by KC Stoever:
John?You mean John Glenn, as in godspeed, or the honorable?
Or, in my case, the faintly disreputable. |
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