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T O P I C R E V I E WPaul78zephyrJust looking at the M-G-A era its interesting to see who commanded and who did not under these circumstances:Rookie commanders (no previous flight):McDivitt G4Armstrong G8(See would have commanded G9)Two missions, no commandCollins G10, A11Aldrin G12, A11Bean A12, SL2Gordon G11, A12Flew as non commander after commandingLovell G7, G12(C), A8, A13(C)Please add if you have any commentsPaulPowerCatOne other astronaut to add to the Non-command after commanding a flight would be John Young: G3, G10 C, A10, A16 C.Good list and very interesting. I had forgotton about a couple of these.nasamad I think Collins was offered a Command (IIRC it was Apollo 14), if you include Skylab as an Apollo flight (well it was Apollo hardware) then Bean did command a mission. Plus Gordon did have command of Apollo 18 until cancellation.Borman was also a rookie Commander on Gemini 7AdamWAWalshAlong with the correction for Alan Bean, if Skylab is included, then Gerry Carr gets added as a first-time commander. The early shuttle missions would also add to the list.FFrench quote:Originally posted by WAWalsh:The early shuttle missions would also add to the list.I can't think of who - all of the early shuttle commanders had flown in space before. The only one there is possible debate about is Joe Engle, who flew a suborbital X-15 flight.Aztecdoug quote:Originally posted by Paul78zephyr:Rookie commanders (no previous flight):McDivitt G4Armstrong G8(See would have commanded G9)Please add if you have any commentsPaulI think it would be safe to add Borman here too on GT-7.------------------Kind RegardsDouglas HenryEnjoy yourself and have fun.... it is only a hobby!http://home.earthlink.net/~aztecdoug/star61Think Collins was offered A17?mjanovecWhere do the Mercury Astronauts fit into this equation? Do the solo flights that six of them flew in the Mercury era count as "commands." TomYes...Collins was offered the back-up CDR slot on "14" which would have put him in line to command "17".WAWalshSo much for my memory. I was working off Engle for STS-2 and did not think through the next group of launches. A quick check confirms my error, not a rookie in the lot otehr than Engle.TomAnd to take it one step further, only 2 astronauts in history were only chosen as mission commanders...can you name them?[Hint...it wasn't any of the Mercury astronauts.]Duke Of URLArmstrong and Borman. Right?But if you include Mercury as above, add the old Dynamic Pioneer, Scott Carpenter. And his pal Gus Grissom along with his fellow swabbos Wally Schirra and Al Shepard[This message has been edited by Duke Of URL (edited August 01, 2006).]Paul78zephyr quote:Originally posted by Tom:And to take it one step further, only 2 astronauts in history were only chosen as mission commanders...can you name them?[Hint...it wasn't any of the Mercury astronauts.]I must not understand the question correctly (commanded ALL missions flown): Shepard M1, A14Grisson M2, G3Schirra M5, G6Cooper M6, G5McDivitt G4, A9Borman G7, A8Armstrong G8, A11Also when I started this thread my intention was to not label M7 astronauts as 'commanders' for those missions, include Skylab, and exclude the shuttle. 'Only M-G-A astonauts need apply' KC Stoever quote:Originally posted by Paul78zephyr: I must not understand the question correctly (commanded ALL missions flown): Shepard M1, A14Grisson M2, G3Schirra M5, G6Cooper M6, G5McDivitt G4, A9Borman G7, A8Armstrong G8, A11Also when I started this thread my intention was to not label M7 astronauts as 'commanders' for those missions, include Skylab, and exclude the shuttle. 'Only M-G-A astonauts need apply' Er, Um. I'm confused. Glenn commanded MA-6. Carpenter commanded MA-7. It's kind of a Navy-Marine thing (see Schirra, Wally).Omissions about commanders and missions with respect to these facts (about commanding and missions) upthread are notable. IMHO. But perhaps I don't understand the framing question.[This message has been edited by KC Stoever (edited July 31, 2006).]TomI didn't mean to make it confusing, but I was using the term "commander" in reference to having a crew assigned to them...that is why I hinted that it wasn't any of the Mercury astronauts.The correct answer would be McDivitt and Armstrong.All of their flight assignments (both prime and back-up) were as mission commander.Borman was originally assigned as back-up pilot with Grissom for the first Gemini flight.Elliot See was back-up pilot on Gemini 5.Joe Engle was back-up LMP on Apollo 14.KC StoeverShips have commanders. They need no crew. They need only missions.[On edit: Sorry: unclear pronoun referent. "They" in this context refers to commanders not to ships. Commanders generally have a mission--to survive the passage. To bring back new knowledge, etc. Commanders, as it happens, achieve missions with no crew aboard but themselves. Commanders are the crew.][This message has been edited by KC Stoever (edited July 31, 2006).]TomI stand corrected...there are 7.Shepard, Grissom, Carpenter, Schirra, Cooper, McDivitt, and Armstrong.KC Stoever quote:Originally posted by Tom:I stand corrected...there are 7.Shepard, Grissom, Carpenter, Schirra, Cooper, McDivitt, and Armstrong.And John Glenn?ejectrThat's why in the aviation community they use the term "Pilot in Command". As long as he/she is in that left seat, either alone or with a plane full of people...he/she is "in command".As far as the Mercury spacecraft is concerned, they were DEFINITELY in command with one seat. All six of them....!Tom quote:Originally posted by KC Stoever: And John Glenn?When John was assigned to STS-95 as Payload Specialist, he was no longer assigned as CDR only.Same can be said for Deke who was DMP for Apollo / Soyuz mission.KC StoeverJohn?You mean John Glenn, as in godspeed, or the honorable?Duke Of URL quote:Originally posted by KC Stoever:John?You mean John Glenn, as in godspeed, or the honorable?Or, in my case, the faintly disreputable.
Rookie commanders (no previous flight):McDivitt G4Armstrong G8(See would have commanded G9)
Two missions, no commandCollins G10, A11Aldrin G12, A11Bean A12, SL2Gordon G11, A12
Flew as non commander after commandingLovell G7, G12(C), A8, A13(C)
Please add if you have any commentsPaul
Good list and very interesting. I had forgotton about a couple of these.
Borman was also a rookie Commander on Gemini 7
Adam
quote:Originally posted by WAWalsh:The early shuttle missions would also add to the list.
I can't think of who - all of the early shuttle commanders had flown in space before. The only one there is possible debate about is Joe Engle, who flew a suborbital X-15 flight.
quote:Originally posted by Paul78zephyr:Rookie commanders (no previous flight):McDivitt G4Armstrong G8(See would have commanded G9)Please add if you have any commentsPaul
I think it would be safe to add Borman here too on GT-7.
------------------Kind Regards
Douglas Henry
Enjoy yourself and have fun.... it is only a hobby!http://home.earthlink.net/~aztecdoug/
But if you include Mercury as above, add the old Dynamic Pioneer, Scott Carpenter. And his pal Gus Grissom along with his fellow swabbos Wally Schirra and Al Shepard
[This message has been edited by Duke Of URL (edited August 01, 2006).]
quote:Originally posted by Tom:And to take it one step further, only 2 astronauts in history were only chosen as mission commanders...can you name them?[Hint...it wasn't any of the Mercury astronauts.]
I must not understand the question correctly (commanded ALL missions flown):
Shepard M1, A14Grisson M2, G3Schirra M5, G6Cooper M6, G5McDivitt G4, A9Borman G7, A8Armstrong G8, A11
Also when I started this thread my intention was to not label M7 astronauts as 'commanders' for those missions, include Skylab, and exclude the shuttle. 'Only M-G-A astonauts need apply'
quote:Originally posted by Paul78zephyr: I must not understand the question correctly (commanded ALL missions flown): Shepard M1, A14Grisson M2, G3Schirra M5, G6Cooper M6, G5McDivitt G4, A9Borman G7, A8Armstrong G8, A11Also when I started this thread my intention was to not label M7 astronauts as 'commanders' for those missions, include Skylab, and exclude the shuttle. 'Only M-G-A astonauts need apply'
Er, Um. I'm confused. Glenn commanded MA-6. Carpenter commanded MA-7. It's kind of a Navy-Marine thing (see Schirra, Wally).
Omissions about commanders and missions with respect to these facts (about commanding and missions) upthread are notable. IMHO.
But perhaps I don't understand the framing question.
[This message has been edited by KC Stoever (edited July 31, 2006).]
[On edit: Sorry: unclear pronoun referent. "They" in this context refers to commanders not to ships. Commanders generally have a mission--to survive the passage. To bring back new knowledge, etc. Commanders, as it happens, achieve missions with no crew aboard but themselves. Commanders are the crew.]
quote:Originally posted by Tom:I stand corrected...there are 7.Shepard, Grissom, Carpenter, Schirra, Cooper, McDivitt, and Armstrong.
And John Glenn?
As far as the Mercury spacecraft is concerned, they were DEFINITELY in command with one seat. All six of them....!
quote:Originally posted by KC Stoever: And John Glenn?
When John was assigned to STS-95 as Payload Specialist, he was no longer assigned as CDR only.Same can be said for Deke who was DMP for Apollo / Soyuz mission.
You mean John Glenn, as in godspeed, or the honorable?
quote:Originally posted by KC Stoever:John?You mean John Glenn, as in godspeed, or the honorable?
Or, in my case, the faintly disreputable.
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