posted 07-23-2005 10:59 PM               

All I can say is ---OH MY GOD -- WHAT A WASTE OF TIME. Only a handful of tables. No patches at all -- one dealer (and there weren't many) stated that "there are just too many to bring" !! This show was a joke. One dealer had a display of commerative coins but when asked about them stated they were'nt for sale. Now I realize there has to be exhibits etc--but come on now. If you advertise that this is a memorabilia show with dealers, some (more than a handful) should at least show up. If there were more than 10 I would be amazed. And what these dealers did have was crap.

Myself and another collector waited all summer for this show hoping to see some dealers with autographs, patches, lithos etc and only one dealer had autographs and these were mainly covers.

Collectspace -- you need to start over on organizing this show if you expect anyone to come to the next one. This was more than disappointing --this was embarrasing!!!

posted 07-23-2005 11:18 PM               

Unfortunately, that can be the way these things go sometimes. I think Collectspace did all it could do to make all of us aware of this event. I guess not many of us attended. I didn't, so I guess that makes me a guilty party. If anything, this speaks to what many of us have been saying for quite sometime now. If we don't spread the hobby- and fast- it may be in for a sad decline in future years.

Instead, I applaud Robert for being what has become the international banner carrier for this hobby. Don't you think he must have felt pretty bad that he did all the work he possibly could and then it didn't turn out as well as may have been intended? I think you're shooting the wrong guy here. He tried.

Many of us here in Georgia have tried as well, and the best we've been able to pull off is maybe six or seven guys at Russ Still's house and two at my house- even when Gen. Bob Scott had been scheduled to appear and sign his book and aviation memorobilia for free! Embarassingly, we had to cancel the poor guy because no one besides Jimmy Brown and Gilbert Huey were willing to come.

And Al Hallonquist and Steve Zarelli threw a fabulous Air & Space show at the cape a couple of years ago- even brought in big names- and the turnout was lower than all of us had expected.

So hey, some people are at least trying to promote the hobby. Don't shoot Robert. Why don't you ask your dealer friends why they didn't attend? From your post, it seems like that's what you are mad about.

Sometimes you can build it, and they still won't come. That's life.

Hang in there. Hopefully, the New Jersey show next month may make you feel better.

posted 07-23-2005 11:31 PM               

The majority of the feedback I received talking to many of the 500 people who came through GRC's Visitor Center on Saturday was positive. Some kindly offered their ideas, which I was very glad to hear. Many expressed their enjoyment having the chance to meet and talk with other collectors and see the items others collected.

We listed the dealers and collectors who were confirmed to attend weeks prior to the show. I am assuming by your comments, that you did not have a chance to see that information.

posted 07-23-2005 11:34 PM               

I was the person who exhibited my coins today. You have to understand that this show was done more to attract new people to the hobby and educate them about collecting space memorabillia.

I HAD A GREAT TIME educating young kids and adults about commemorative and flown medallions. I gave out around 40 items for the raffle in order to get people, both kids and adults, interested in Collecting Space Stuff. This was NOT an Autograph show, which I think is what you are looking for. You should go to the New Jersey Show.

I think the show was great and most of us had a WONDERFUL time. It was EDUCATIONAL, and I got to meet many of our fellow CS collectors and I made NEW FRIENDS.

This, Mark, is the most important thing about this Hobby, which is to develop a Culture of Respect, Friendship, and Learning.

Take Care, and don't be sad or mad, because you have a lot to Learn

posted 07-24-2005 08:04 AM               

The event was a great beginning. I was able to meet some wonderful people and discuss some great topics just like we do here on this board. I believe that is what the hobby is about and what these gatherings are about. The event was free, the people were great, and we got to see the NASA Glenn displays. I for one would go again and if I would have had more time I would have stayed the whole day.

posted 07-24-2005 03:36 PM               

From my limited perspective (this was my first show) I thought the turnout was reasonable and the displays interesting. I enjoyed meeting people and seeing new items. I'm not into the patches corner of the hobby, but I held up my part of the hardware corner as well as I could with one table and too much to bring. Some of us have collections that could have filled half the room. So we as dealers/display-ers compromise, blindly guessing at what might interest the public today.

Zee (I hadn't realized you were zee_aladdin when you introduced yourself as Zee), you clearly enjoy your coin corner of the hobby, and made a magnificent display. Thanks for lugging all that stuff to the show.

Robert and the folks at Glenn didn't have to do this. But I'm glad they did, and I'm glad I went and displayed. They deserve applause for their efforts, and any help we can give them to make the next one even better.

posted 07-24-2005 08:49 PM               

One of the most important things for me that happened at the show was quizing the little kids on some space history, such as who was the first man to land on the moon, who was the first american in space, and on naming all of our solar system planets.

I gave every kid that came to my booth space shot cards after quizing them, and they really appreciated them. Some other kids were disappointed that they didn't win any coins in the raffle, so I gave them some of my coins and you should have seen the looks on their faces.

Another kid was desparate to get a coin, and he was so interested in discussing the Apollo 13 movie. He wished he could have an Apollo 13 coins. I looked around in my collection and I found a vintage bronze Apollo 13 coin that I don't have a duplicate of. I thought about it for a minute and then I decided to give it to the kid (his name is Kyle and I will post his picture once I get them out of my digital camera), and he was extremely happy that he now has an Apollo 13 Medallion.

I think kids remember and retain such experiences much more than adults do, and all the good we do for kids will definitely influence their future.

Another grandfather that brought his kid was very disappointed because he wanted to buy a patch for his grandson so that he can put it on his shirt. They were both very sad. I looked around in my bag and I remembered bringing an Apollo 15 patch. The grandfather wanted to pay me for it, but I told him it was for free and I encouraged his grandkid to continue collecting space memorabillia. It is moments like these (and many others) that makes coming to the show worthwhile.

posted 07-25-2005 02:41 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by nelyubov:

Collectspace -- you need to start over on organizing this show if you expect anyone to come to the next one. This was more than disappointing --this was embarrasing!!!

Mark

---

I think what confuses me the most here is your tirade against collectSpace, like it was Rob's show. It was NASA's - not collectSpace's so you should rant to them.

In any event, it was good to read about folks having a good time, like the "Geekniks" of old, that is near impossible to organize anymore. Maybe with the momentum it'll be possible again in the future. Some tremendous deals made, items swapped, sold, and just shared - not to mention the friendships that were made way back when.

Cheers,

Al

posted 07-25-2005 04:12 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by albatron@aol.com:
I think what confuses me the most here is your tirade against collectSpace, like it was Rob's show. It was NASA's - not collectSpace's so you should rant to them.

---

posted 07-25-2005 10:20 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
As the show was presented in collaboration with collectSPACE - it was planned and executed as a partnership - I have no problem with Mark taking up his grievances with us. I just wish he had done so in person, so that we could both help to make the next show that much better.

That said, I know that the staff at GRC are reading this as well, and so Mark is getting his message across to both parties.

---

OK - they didnt present it to me that way when they contacted me. But hey - now youve got lots of folks calling for YOU to do shows all over (not NASA)! Im sure NASA will be calling you for each center now - so hop to it!

posted 07-25-2005 10:31 PM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by albatron@aol.com:
Im sure NASA will be calling you for each center now - so hop to it!

---

posted 07-25-2005 11:16 PM               

Check it out

The word is out

posted 07-27-2005 07:21 AM               

Our hobby is in its infancy as far as having shows are concerned. Usually we are an "add on" to other autograph or memorabilia shows. But for it to work, we need to attract more than just the same people that communicate through the forums etc. Its great that everyone at the show was able to talk first hand to those they only know by the forum but that should not be the point of the show. The point should be, to attract new and future collectors. Without them your memorabilia will not have any value. I realize most of us do not collect for the monetary value of an item but unfortunately that is what keeps the hobby alive.

Children are our most important collector. Kids and most adult collectors do not have the money to buy $15,000.00 moon gloves or $400.00 shuttle tiles. To attract kids and keep them in the hobby we must present to them, items that will be of interest yet cheap enough for them to want to continue in the hobby and spark their interest in the space program. With video games etc out there to take up their time and with Star Wars and Star Trek, the real space program seems boring to them (how many people hought the best thing there was the flight simulation?). However, these items such as patches, decals, models, etc. are a way for them and the common adult collector to connect with the space program and yet still cheap enough to buy and collect. I did not see any or very little patches or any of the others items either.

I have been a collector for 40 years and have dabbled in other areas such as Baseball cards, military memorabilia, stamps and coins and I can say that what has damaged these hobbies is that they became too elitist and did not attract the common everyday collector and kid. How many baseball card shows do you still see ?? How many shops are still around ?? Why ? The dealers priced themselves right out of their major collector base --kids and the average buying "joe". The same can be said for coins and stamps -- see any kids collecting stamps and coins anymore ???

My point is, what really attracts people to a hobby are items of memorabilia that everyone can afford and collect. There will always be those that will be able to buy the joy stick to the apollo 15 command module and thats great --but to keep a hobby going and I mean "collecting memorabilia", the shows need to gear up towards these common collectors and not the "heavy hitters".

This show we are discussing was more along the lines of a "space museum exhibit" instead of a buy, sell and swap trade show.

This was my concern with the show and I was not trying to criticize anyone's hard work or motives.

posted 07-27-2005 03:07 PM               

If you are interested in just collecting space memorabillia, then you go to
http://www.collectspace.com/sites/sites-dealers.html

Which shows you all the dealers with price ranges from $1.00 to $20,000.00. You can also go on Ebay and find thousands of space items for sale.

The Ohio show was just the beginning, and the more the word goes out, the more it will attract people, including many young kids and new adults.

Take Care

- Zee

posted 07-28-2005 12:48 PM               

Just wondering what you have done to help promote the hobby or the idea of space exploration?

posted 07-28-2005 02:51 PM               

Well I can see that some just can't take the truth here. I am sorry that my unvarnished statements are not accepted. I am telling you what I saw and what I heard. I am also trying to describe what I have seen happen to other hobbies over the years (read my second posting above). I was not trying to pick on Robert and his attempt to start a show. But when an event is publicized as a "Memorabilia Show" and there is very little memorabilia there for new collectors I thought I would post this.

Are there positives --absolutley -- there was a show !! And hopefully there will be more --but for it to catch on with the general public and new collectors, changes need to be made. And I was not going to "sugarcoat" the situation. I have been collecting space memorabilia for 40 years and it isn't a hobby that is growing heaps and bounds as many would believe. Young collectors need to be attracted to this hobby or it will die. Talk to some young people and ask them to name the original seven astronauts -- or who was with Armstrong on the moon? Ask them to name one shuttle astronaut --and not one up there now!
If you get one correct answer you will be lucky. Most young people are not interested in the space program --they are more interested in their video games. Real space is boring compared to Star Wars. If you want this hobby to grow, the only way it will grow is with young people, then you need to make these shows attractive to them. This was a "collectors memorabilia" show --hence you need memorabilia that is affordable to THEM !!! And not just the advanced collectors, like many of us who belong to this website. That is all I am saying. If you can't see that --then this hobby will be lost as so many others.

I will give you an example -- many years ago an older collector friend of mine wanted to sell his large collection of Lindbergh memorabilia --there was nothing owned by Lindbergh -- just stuff about him and things that were sold around the time of his flight. This collector had hundreds of items-- and guess what -- no one wanted it because Lindbergh was a far gone memory to most people -- name the second man to fly the Atlantic?? If people didn't want Lindbergh memorabilia and he was first ! --do you think that they wanted stuff from the second man?? Already people can't name the second man on the moon!! GET MY POINT !! If there aren't younger collectors -- all you will have in this hobby are old men who grew up in the sixties relieving their fantasies of space travel.

posted 07-28-2005 02:52 PM               

Met a number of you there and have established new friends.

Took the time to take some of my important, unique, scarce covers and signed photos out of the safe deposit box for display for all to see.

Apollo 8, 11 and 15 (signed photos and covers) were presented along with a SIEGER cover taken to the moon on Apollo 15 by Dave Scott (one of 300). Quite a history on that one (check the collectSpace archives:
http://www.collectspace.com/resources/profiles/profiles_a15sieger.html

To me, this was a great experience. It was my first visit to GRC and met with a number of the staff there. A number of the collectibles I have came from the Ed Huston estate (he worked at Lewis Research center in the 60's and 70's.

Count me in for next year!

My special thanks to Mike Blair, GRC and Robert Pearlman for setting this up, and allowing me to participate. The hospitality was, in a word, fantastic!

By the way, there was no charge for tables or entrance fees as it was a NASA facility.

Again, thank you to everyone who participated.

posted 07-28-2005 03:33 PM               

Just out of curiousity, you said you have been a collector for 40 years. What are some of your most important collectibles of space memorabillia?

I would like to know.

Thank you

posted 07-28-2005 03:49 PM               

I would have to say that the following are my most prized items:

signed NASA 8x10's of Ed Givens, Ted Freeman, CC Williams, Elliott See, Charlie Bassett -- 8x10 signed photo of Mike Adams.

And a STS-51D Jarvis/Walker crew patch with a signed letter from Jarvis sending me the patch.

Regards,

posted 07-28-2005 05:00 PM               

I can understand where you're coming from, it would have been nice if everyone was walking around with rare artifacts, but give it another chance. As the show becomes well known in the area, it will attract more people.

While I didn't have the chance to attend, it sounds like there wasn't much buying, selling or trading of space artifacts among the people without tables. As more & more people get to know about this show, it will attract many more NASA workers with stuff to sell or trade and bring in ex-workers who have stuff that they're looking to sell.

Regardless, it was a wonderful opportunity for space folks to get together, meet, look at all the cool exhibits brought in by Robert, John Fongheiser and others. John is one of the most knowledgable people in the space hardware business, so you'd be hard pressed not to find something to talk about. It was very nice of Robert and the Glenn center to set up this show, it's never easy, especially for the first of any type of new show.

Zee, it was very nice of you to give your coins away, it's only going to pay off down the road by creating new collectors and to build interest in the space program among the kids.

posted 07-28-2005 05:03 PM               

I'd love to see your Ed Givens signed photo. Any chance you could post a copy of it here? I've never seen one before. Thanks.

posted 07-29-2005 09:46 AM               

Great idea about the BSA & GSA.

How about a local astronomy club display area setting up their scopes. Or letting high school science & astronomy teachers know about it, then offering kids extra credit for attending. If the Glenn center has a news letter, they could advertise the show there to attract NASA employees.

posted 07-29-2005 10:56 PM               

I would like to thank Robert Pearlman and his collegues at collectSPACE.com and Countdown Creations for taking the chance to hold a space memorabilia show at the NASA Glenn Visitor Center. The collaboration that we received from them was truly beyond what we expected and we are very impressed by all that they did to make this first show a success. I am looking forward to working with Robert again during the year in planning next year's show. I would also like to thank the 15 exhibitors who volunteered to display and sell their space memorabilia and other collectibles at this show. I really give them credit for taking the time out of their schedules to come to NASA Glenn to put on a good show and for donating memorabilia for the free door prizes that were given out. I would like to thank Woody Witt, one of our exhibitors, who not only came to the show, but also met with our GRC History Office and donated a number of important items that he had obtained from a former Glenn employee's estate sale. You should have seen the real joy on the faces of our History Office people in receiving these items. That is what our interest in the space program as collectors is all about!! Preserving and sharing the knowledge of our history in space. Finally, I made a number of new friends at the show and I thank each of you for your participation.

The Space Memorabilia show we recently held is part of our free "Third Saturday" program series to the general public to bring the latest scientific information to our visitors and with hope of drawing members of the public who would not normally think that NASA has an impact on their lives. We thought that this kind of event would be great in that the public would get a chance to see items from the space program that they would not normally see at the Visitor Center and if they choose, they could even purchase an item as well. We also wanted to hold a memorabilia show for collectors in this part of the country who would not normally be able to go elsewhere to see and purchase space memorabilia.

With respect to Mark's comments, both Robert and I would agree with you that their is a real need to get kids involved in space memorabilia and the space program. We want to see this field of memorabilia collecting grow as well. For this show we did have a free digital photobooth set up for kids to have their faces place on an astronaut's image. This has been hugely popular in the past ( and with many adults as well)! We have been changing the backgrounds fairly frequently, and as a result we have many kids come back on a monthly basis to have new photos taken. The kids have told us that they are collecting them like baseball cards!!! Normally, we also have a kids make & take crafts activity area for each event, but we at the Visitor Center made the mistake in not planning a craft for this event. Again, our mistake and one that we will have next year. I talked with Robert after the show and agreed that we would like to add more kids events to draw them to this particular event. We would of course welcome any ideas for kids activities relating to this memorabilia show that you have. You can either call me at the Visitor Center or email me (Michael.Blair@grc.nasa.gov) and I would be happy to discuss them with you.

With regards to getting kids in general interested in the space program and sciece we have held a number of popular events targeted towards them, that we encourage all to attend in the future. With respects to having a local astronomy club bring their telescopes to this event, I would like to let you know that we already offer an annual "Astronomy Day" event at the Visitor Center where we stay open from 10 a.m. to 11 p.m. I think Mark and many of you would be pleased to hear that this year's Astronomy Day event at NASA drew 4,500 people, predominantly kids and families who heard the latest in astronomy, the Deep Impact mission, Cassini and MER. We are planning to hold this again in 2006. I would encourage you to check out our events calendar for other kid friendly events.

With regards to pricing of space memorabilia to draw in kids, we are hoping to work with exhibitors to make sure that we have items that are affordable to them as well. Robert and I will be discussing this more in the future.

Overall, we think that our first venture into hosting this show was a good one. Yes, their can and will be improvements to the show, but I would like to thank all of those who participated in or visited us during this first annual memorabilia show. Just to let you know we had 512 people visit us during the day's event. Not to bad for our first show. I look forward to reading more of your comments and I encourage you to let Robert or myself know your ideas for next year's show. Thanks.

Mike Blair