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Author Topic:   NASA red numbered 'A Kodak Paper' photos
dwager
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Posts: 110
From: Augusta, GA
Registered: Sep 2014

posted 05-27-2021 01:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dwager   Click Here to Email dwager     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What is the origin of NASA red numbered "A Kodak Paper" photos?

Could they be ordered by the general public (say via a magazine ad) or bought at the gift shop? Was the public even aware of their existence or availability? Or, were they only available within NASA to employees?

If only within NASA, were employees told how and where to order them? Or were they given out by request?

Robert Pearlman
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Posts: 48941
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 05-27-2021 02:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A reader of this site, Joe Wolenski, has written an article about the history of the red numbered photos and authenticating vintage NASA prints.

The whole thing is worth reading but here are the relevant sections to your questions:

In the beginning, all NASA photography came into existence at Building 8 at the Johnson Space Center in Houston, Texas. Building 8 housed the Photography Technology Lab (the "PTL") where original mission films were immediate sent after the mission's end. ...

...the PTL took the mission film — sold and marketed by Kodak under the brand name "Ektachrome" — and developed it by projecting it onto a 70mm piece of internegative film. The original film was too historic and too delicate to handle often, so this process allowed NASA to create a first set of master internegatives — or, perhaps better stated, to create a master internegative copy from the original film flown in space. The PTL then duplicated the "master" internegatives into additional copies. These duplicate internegatives (now twice removed from the originals) were then used to print images on photographic paper.

Through this process, the PTL used the internegative as an intermediate between what was exposed in the camera on the Moon, and the final print now sought by collectors. [Kodak global product manager Robert] Shanebrook estimates that NASA probably produced about 100 internegative copies and shared them with individuals or companies close to the mission's development. For instance, Kodak, a devoted supplier to NASA, received an internegative copy of the Apollo 11 images, which Shanebrook used in 1969 to create several prints as a memento of his time with Kodak.

With accurate internegative copies in hand, NASA was willing to share prints from those negatives with pretty much anyone who asked. Anticipating high demand, NASA's PTL sought to purchase and deploy several photographic finishing machines. The phrase "photographic printer" is a bit of a misnomer when compared to today's understanding of "something that prints." In 1960s parlance, a "photographic printer" was simply a machine that projected the image from the negative onto paper. From there, the exposed paper was fed into a separate machine that dipped the paper into a series of darkroom chemicals, thereby revealing the image through the magic of chemistry. With NASA, it is highly likely the PTL used a photographic printer called the Kodak Color Printer Model 5S-4, or something similar. ...

The presence of red lettering on the front of most vintage NASA photographic prints is often misinterpreted as being a significant factor to establish that photograph's authenticity. The serial numbers are part of the original print, keyed in by an operator using the internegative number as a reference to keep the print consistent with the official photograph designation given by NASA. Once keyed in, the printer reproduced the number on the photographic paper during production. While the meaning of the serial numbers tells us some about the image depicted in the photograph, it is important not to become too carried away with their importance.

According to at least two NASA offices and one retiree who worked in the PTL, the color of the lettering is not an indication of any significance. Red ink appears most often, but other prints with black or blue ink do not signify anything particularly special. The difference in color is typically attributable to one of two reasons: (i) the type or version of printer used (most likely reason), or (ii) an off-the-cuff decision by the printer's operator.

As to availability, NASA did not advertise that the public could request prints (though the agency did distribute a list of companies from which commercial prints could be ordered), but if the public wrote and asked for photos, they were often provided (along with cheaper, paper-quality lithographs). NASA distributed photo prints to the media and they were available to employees.

dwager
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Posts: 110
From: Augusta, GA
Registered: Sep 2014

posted 05-28-2021 09:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for dwager   Click Here to Email dwager     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Great info - many thanks, Robert!

Cozmosis22
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Posts: 1114
From: Texas * Earth
Registered: Apr 2011

posted 05-28-2021 02:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Cozmosis22     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This part, also from the article, explains how the handling of the onboard film was so critical that the paranoid folks at Eastman Kodak told NASA "Here, you develop your own film."
Naturally, at mission's end, NASA was eager to see the photographs. But the process of converting actual film to a negative and then using that negative to create a photograph was not without risk.

Traditional photography is perhaps best described as a series of chemical processes that involve the element silver and one of the halogens (chemistry fans know to look for these on the second-to-last column on the periodic table).

A lot can go wrong with development, such as inadvertent exposure of film to light, or improper immersion of negatives to darkroom chemicals. If a mistake was made processing the film, there was no mission do over.

To complicate matters more, the mission film was difficult to handle because, at only 2.5 mils thick, it was extremely thin, and was unable to handle too much stress like traditional film, which measured between 5 and 7 mils thick. The reason for such thin film was the limited storage space in the spacecraft: The thinner film not only occupied 40% less space but it increased the number of photographs per role by 40% as well.

In fact, the risk of mistake or error in the developing process was so high that the Eastman Kodak Company ("Kodak"), which manufactured the film itself, did not want the responsibility of processing mission film into negatives.

As a result, that responsibility fell to the PTL, and, by extension, to employees like Brinkmann and Holland.

This potential for failure in photography during the "film development' phase has fortunately been eliminated with modern digital technology. However, the maintenance of old film negatives and positives (slides) remains an issue that will not go away.

Blackarrow
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Posts: 3498
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 05-30-2021 11:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Blackarrow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Cozmosis22:
A lot can go wrong with development, such as inadvertent exposure of film to light, or improper immersion of negatives to darkroom chemicals. If a mistake was made processing the film, there was no mission do over.
I have never been able to find out why the quality of the Apollo 17 16mm movie footage of "Challenger" landing on the Moon is quite poor (noticeably grainy) compared with all of the other "landing films." Was this because the exposure was set wrongly by the astronauts (forgivable in a high-pressure setting); or because the film was wrongly processed (arguably unforgivable)?

Liembo
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Posts: 801
From: Bothell, WA
Registered: Jan 2013

posted 08-25-2022 01:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Liembo   Click Here to Email Liembo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is there a page that explains what the "Type I", "Type II" and "Type III" photos are?

Blackarrow
Member

Posts: 3498
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 08-25-2022 05:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Blackarrow     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Now that this thread has been resurrected, would anyone like to tackle my question of 30th May, 2021?

On the point about members of the public receiving NASA "red number" colour photographs, I remember writing to JSC in 1974 requesting pictures of the Skylab missions and being sent a batch of about eight "red number" colour photos, which I still have. These include two launch photos.

I also requested Apollo 15 information shortly after the mission and was sent two "red number" colour prints: a magnificent wide-angle view of the launch, and a classic shot of Jim Irwin standing by the rover with Mount Hadley (mostly in shadow) as a backdrop. I still have those, too.

The last time I looked at the pictures (which are stored in a folder in the dark) I had the impression that the colours have faded slightly in the last 50 years approximately, but they are still reasonably true.

Most holiday colour photos from the mid-1970s have now become very "orangey-brown" owing (I think) to changes in processing methods from the mid-1970s. Has that also happened to NASA "red number" colour prints from, say, 1975 onwards? That would likely include ASTP colour prints.

Philip
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Posts: 6170
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 08-27-2022 12:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Philip   Click Here to Email Philip     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I often wrote to NASA (dare I saw since 1971) and received lots of photos, both mission photos and individual + crew photographs. In those days most were Kodak paper photos, by the 1990s (due to the web) NASA only shipped crew lithographs.

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