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  Hard-to-find and rarely seen NASA lithographs

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Author Topic:   Hard-to-find and rarely seen NASA lithographs
Mike Dixon
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Posts: 764
From: Kew, Victoria, Australia
Registered: May 2003

posted 03-19-2013 07:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike Dixon   Click Here to Email Mike Dixon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd really like the opinions from the cS community about rare NASA lithos, whether they pertain to the Mercury through the Apollo period or indeed, the shuttle era.

I suspect (indeed, I know) there's quite a few outside of those we often discuss... and some of them even harder to find than MSCL 1.

Beau08
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Posts: 140
From: Peoria, AZ United States
Registered: Aug 2011

posted 03-21-2013 08:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Beau08   Click Here to Email Beau08     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From my searching for these elusive lithos I have yet to see nor do I know anyone that has an actual MSCL-58 large moon version.

laz2001
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Posts: 20
From: St Albans, Hertfordshire, England
Registered: Aug 2002

posted 03-22-2013 11:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for laz2001   Click Here to Email laz2001     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Apologies for my ignorance but what is the 'large moon' version please?

rail3cards
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Posts: 92
From: Staten Island, New York
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 03-23-2013 12:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rail3cards   Click Here to Email rail3cards     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The MSCL-58 is the Apollo 13 litho with four views. In the middle view, on the right hand side of the litho, there is a picture of the moon. NASA made another variation of this litho with a larger moon.

Not many collectors know about this litho. I was fortunate to purchase this litho from Gene Cernan through Novaspace from his private collection many years ago. At the time, no one had interest in these lithos.

Of course, the MSCL-1 still remains the "Holy Grail" for most collectors. The MSCL and JSCL series from NASA really tell the history of the NASA. If collecting lithos, there are the MSCL, JSCL, JSCIL, JSCIL-a, JSCIL-b, the JSCIL 1000 series, HqL, and JSCCL.

Many of these lithos, especially astronaut portaits overlap with many going from one series to another. In many cases, exact portraits but different numbers. In addition, the lithos coming out of JSC today have the LG series. I hope this helps.

garyd2831
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Posts: 442
From: Syracuse, New York, USA
Registered: Oct 2009

posted 03-23-2013 01:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for garyd2831   Click Here to Email garyd2831     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
These are like the space equivalent of baseball cards.

Thanks for the helpful information.

lunarrv15
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Posts: 1295
From: Cincinnati, Ohio, Hamilton
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 03-23-2013 06:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lunarrv15   Click Here to Email lunarrv15     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have MSCL-58 with a distant moon. Could you post a picture of your NASA verison Railcard?

John Graham
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Posts: 15
From: Iqaluit, Nunavut, Canada
Registered: Feb 2003

posted 03-25-2013 03:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for John Graham   Click Here to Email John Graham     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I just noticed that I have two lithos numbered MSCL 13. One is the Gemini IV prime crew and the other one (which I just discovered) is the Gemini VI Schirra Stafford crew. All my other eight Gemini crew lithos have no numbers.

spaceman
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Posts: 922
From: Walsall, West Midlands, UK
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-25-2013 06:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaceman   Click Here to Email spaceman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry if I've missed this in an earlier post is there a list of MSCL or JSC numbered lithos please?

Beau08
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Posts: 140
From: Peoria, AZ United States
Registered: Aug 2011

posted 03-25-2013 07:10 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Beau08   Click Here to Email Beau08     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Spaceman. I have sent you an email with several attachments that detail all the MSCL lithos. Let me know if you receive it okay.

rail3cards
Member

Posts: 92
From: Staten Island, New York
Registered: Jan 2001

posted 03-26-2013 07:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for rail3cards   Click Here to Email rail3cards     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
John, there are a number of variations of the MSCL lithos and you have one of them. There are two variations of that MSCL-13 litho. In addition, there are many lithos that are not numbered and yet they fall into that MSCL category like the other lithos in the JSCL category. This was not unusual in the earlier days.

My biggest concern about bringing this to a public forum, is that people who have these lithos, market them as extremely rare and ask ridiculous prices and this only escalates the price of other lithos even higher. As collectors, we all have seen the price of astronaut autographs go up and now the steady increase in prices of these lithos. I guess it all comes down to supply and demand. Happy Collecting!

spaceman
Member

Posts: 922
From: Walsall, West Midlands, UK
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-27-2013 03:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaceman   Click Here to Email spaceman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Beau08:
I have sent you an email with several attachments that detail all the MSCL lithos.
Thank you. I never realised that there was a known numbered collection of these lithos. I should have guessed that my small collection was the tip of the iceberg. Prompt response and excellent attachments.Thank you.

Mike Dixon
Member

Posts: 764
From: Kew, Victoria, Australia
Registered: May 2003

posted 03-27-2013 05:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike Dixon   Click Here to Email Mike Dixon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As far as MSCL / HqL / JSCL / JSCCL and LG lithos series are concerned, I've been trying to establish the time span from the year when production of each of these series commenced and the year they finished.

My best guesses are;

  • MSCL - 1966-1973
  • JSCL - 1974-2004
  • HQL - 1980-1992
  • JSCCL - 1989-2000
  • LG - 1999-2013
Anyone care to comment?

Hart Sastrowardoyo
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Posts: 2123
From: Toms River, NJ,USA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 03-27-2013 06:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hart Sastrowardoyo   Click Here to Email Hart Sastrowardoyo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How many 41B lithos exist with the crew listed as assigned to Columbia? There should be three versions: the original, assigned to Columbia; an intermediate, with the text blocked out and corrected to Challenger; and the final with the correct assignment to Challenger.

Mike Dixon
Member

Posts: 764
From: Kew, Victoria, Australia
Registered: May 2003

posted 03-27-2013 08:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike Dixon   Click Here to Email Mike Dixon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hart, I have images of all three headers and I'm almost certain you're right with the text / descriptions.

Hart Sastrowardoyo
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Posts: 2123
From: Toms River, NJ,USA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 03-27-2013 09:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hart Sastrowardoyo   Click Here to Email Hart Sastrowardoyo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I also seem to remember a 41D litho with the text blocked out - but the "corrected" text was the same as what was blocked out.

I know that 61E and 62A lithos exist; I would think they'd be more difficult to find than the 51E litho.

Were there any other pre-Challenger canceled crews who had lithos (not photos) made?

Mike Dixon
Member

Posts: 764
From: Kew, Victoria, Australia
Registered: May 2003

posted 03-27-2013 11:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike Dixon   Click Here to Email Mike Dixon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'll search for my 41D header thumbnails over the weekend and report back.

You're right on 51E... it's not exactly common, but more have surfaced recently, especially on eBay.

Can't say I've ever seen a litho for either 61E or 62A... glossies certainly (NASA worm) but not lithos. Nor have I ever come across any other cancelled crew lithos prior to 51L.

The only unflown (revised manifest) crew lithos across the entire shuttle program that I'm aware of are 51E / 101 / 114 / 117 / 121 and 133.

Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member

Posts: 2123
From: Toms River, NJ,USA
Registered: Aug 2000

posted 03-28-2013 09:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Hart Sastrowardoyo   Click Here to Email Hart Sastrowardoyo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Way back when, more than 25 years ago, the library where I used to live had some press material related to 61E. (I should have walked out with it, ha ha.) I remember a NASA Brief describing the payload (and maybe either a stamp or a notation that the flight was being postponed) as well as a crew litho. As it was eons ago, I could be wrong.

But I also seem to remember an article talking about the Vandenberg crew in which there was a 62A crew litho, and on it was written "never flown, last one," indicating that it was at one time issued by the Astronaut Office.

I also remember a 114 original-crew litho that was available at the 2003 NSTA convention in Philadelphia (shortly after Columbia.) No longer have it, though.

Was there an STS-86 sans Wolf litho or just a crew photo?

Mike Dixon
Member

Posts: 764
From: Kew, Victoria, Australia
Registered: May 2003

posted 03-28-2013 05:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike Dixon   Click Here to Email Mike Dixon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hart Sastrowardoyo:
Was there an STS-86 sans Wolf litho or just a crew photo?
As far as I'm aware, no. The original 114 crew lithos were common but I've seen comments from members regretting they let them go given their (relative) scarcity.

I certainly don't know anyone who has a 61E or 62A litho in their collection.

Now time to search for those 41B headers.

Mike Dixon
Member

Posts: 764
From: Kew, Victoria, Australia
Registered: May 2003

posted 03-28-2013 07:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike Dixon   Click Here to Email Mike Dixon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Hart Sastrowardoyo:
How many 41B lithos exist with the crew listed as assigned to Columbia? There should be three versions: the original, assigned to Columbia; an intermediate, with the text blocked out and corrected to Challenger; and the final with the correct assignment to Challenger.

... and this is the history of the 41B crew lithos ...

The lithos when first released were Hql 137 and the top border of the litho read “Space Shuttle Orbiter OV-102 – (Columbia) Crew Members”.

A second release (also HqL 137) simply had “XXXXX” typed over the Columbia / crew member text when it was known that Challenger would fly the mission.

A third release was identical to the second mentioned above, however on the top border, to the immediate left of the overtyped "XXXXX" info, new text read “Space Shuttle Orbiter OV-099 – (Challenger) Crew Members”

I’m not certain, but I believe the litho code by that time was JSCCL-111

A fourth release (definite that the code was JSCCL 111) simply had “Space Shuttle Orbiter OV-099 – (Challenger) Crew Members” with all the “XXXXX” / background text removed.

I believe I have three of the four releases.

dtemple
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Posts: 605
From: Longview, Texas, USA
Registered: Apr 2000

posted 03-29-2013 11:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dtemple   Click Here to Email dtemple     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by rail3cards:
The MSCL-58 is the Apollo 13 litho with four views. In the middle view, on the right hand side of the litho, there is a picture of the moon. NASA made another variation of this litho with a larger moon.
I have both versions. The rare version was signed in person by Gene Kranz several years ago during his book signing tour. Unfortunately, I didn't chose the best pen for the inscription and signature.

Here is the common MSCL-58. And here is another Apollo 13 litho without an ID.

Bull_Eckert
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Posts: 18
From: Cadiz, Spain
Registered: Jun 2008

posted 04-03-2013 03:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Bull_Eckert     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There is another (HqL-137) titled "Space Shuttle Orbiter OV-102 (Challenger) Crew Members". I think they forgot to change "102" to "099" in this one.

Mike Dixon
Member

Posts: 764
From: Kew, Victoria, Australia
Registered: May 2003

posted 04-03-2013 04:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mike Dixon   Click Here to Email Mike Dixon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Bull_Eckert:
There is another (HqL-137) titled "Space Shuttle Orbiter OV-102 (Challenger) Crew Members". I think they forgot to change "102" to "099" in this one.

Well, there you go ... interesting how these things come to light

Beau08
Member

Posts: 140
From: Peoria, AZ United States
Registered: Aug 2011

posted 04-03-2013 08:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Beau08   Click Here to Email Beau08     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Now the proud owner of a very nice Fred Haise signed MSCL-58 "Large Moon" litho... Yay. Thanks to one of the best guys in the business. Gerry with Astronaut Archives.

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