Topic: July Moon (was: Renaissance Ent. "Lost Tapes")
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42981 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 03-05-2009 10:04 PM
The following release is inaccurate, if not misleading.
NASA has confirmed that the tapes in Mr. George's possession are not the lost tapes that made headlines in 2006, nor are they of better quality than the existing sources for the same footage
Renaissance Entertainment & Media Group Goes to the Moon and Beyond With Lost Apollo 11 Tapes
Renaissance Entertainment & Media Group, LLC has finalized an agreement with the owner of a set of Apollo 11 lost reels of tape which are believed to be the best quality broadcast video tapes of the Apollo 11 EVA.
Mr. Gary George of Las Vegas, Nevada had purchased the reels at a GSA auction sometime in June of 1976. The Apollo 11 EVA tapes were included in a total purchase of 1150 (one thousand one hundred fifty) tapes of assorted sizes for a purchase price of $217.77 dollars (two hundred seventeen and seventy-seven cents). Mr. George was an Engineering Intern at NASA at the time of the purchase.
Renaissance has formed Tranquility Pictures, LLC to produce a Documentary film based on the "Lost Tapes" and the Gary George story to be released for the 40th Anniversary of the Moon Walk.
The Apollo 11 Mission has been a source of mystery and disbelief since Neil Armstrong first set foot on the lunar surface on July 20, 1969 and is considered to be the most important event of the last century!
Renaissance will also contribute 3% of revenue to The Astronaut Scholarship Foundation, ASF, a 501(c)(3) Non-Profit Corporation established in 1984 to establish scholarships for college students who exhibit motivation, imagination and exceptional performance in the science or engineering field of their major.
About Renaissance: Renaissance Entertainment & Media Group, LLC is a Nevada Limited Liability Company specializing in the discovery and development of feature films, video, television and music productions along with ancillary products associated with each project.
In conjunction with the debut of the film and the 40th anniversary, Renaissance has formed a strategic alliance with MidAmerica Ice Cream Company of Lenexa, Kansas, to produce a special flavor called "Blast Off." MidAmerica is the exclusive distributor of Sqwish® Ice Cream, a Soft-Serve style made from a proprietary patented machine which dispenses each portion with no waste and no daily sanitizing.
Anticipating a potential question, there are no (public) updates regarding the real lost tapes.
Colin Anderton Member
Posts: 151 From: Great Britain Registered: Jan 2005
posted 03-06-2009 01:27 PM
Can I say I've always been a little puzzled by the subject of which is the best video available of the Apollo 11 EVA.
I know ABC — in their 1989 re-broadcast of their original coverage — didn't show all of the EVA, but this footage is by far the best I've seen in existence, as it's in it's original video format, and it's the footage I always watch. The NASA recordings are kinescope, and don't have that original "live TV" look at all.
Perhaps the pictures may be forthcoming from one of the networks...
Apollo11 Member
Posts: 84 From: Registered: Mar 2006
posted 03-06-2009 03:51 PM
I agree about the networks. To me, they have a valuable resource sitting in their video vaults just wasting away.
Those of us old enough to remember the glory days of Apollo remember it through the broadcasts of the networks (either ABC, CBS, or NBC). I would love to re-live those thrilling network broadcasts that exuded with the excitement in the voices of the commentators. The longer the networks wait to release these broadcasts, the more the pool of potential buyers diminishes, as time takes its inevitable toll on us.
I know that broadcast networks are all about the bottom line. I can only assume that they just don't believe they can justify the release of the space coverage broadcasts on a cost/benefit basis.
It might be somewhat beneficial for anyone wishing to see these telecasts released to contact the network honchos and make that request known.
Jay Chladek Member
Posts: 2272 From: Bellevue, NE, USA Registered: Aug 2007
posted 03-06-2009 11:46 PM
Well, the subject of better quality imagery is not the stuff that the networks have, but rather the original imagery transmitted from the moon to the three tracking stations on Earth.
A black and white slow scan camera was used to send imagery back and that in turn was shot by a video camera pointing at the monitor in NTSC format and transmitted out to the world (which the networks then transmitted out). A couple of still pictures were taken of the original signal feed from the moon and it appears to have much better contrast and quality to it. Things didn't look as ghostly or as blob like (contrast improved when one of the other tracking stations was able to begin receiving the signal from the moon).
It seems as though all indications are pointing to the tapes which captured that footage were recycled. As such, apparently all we have are the images as they went out over the airwaves.
All things considered, I wouldn't fault NASA for losing that tape as indeed TV was still a new thing to them in 1969. It took a lot of lobbying to even get a camera onboard the LM and they were learning along with the rest of us about just how much of an impact TV would have on the world's psyche. If anything, it just goes to show even the best and the brightest in the world are still human beings in the end and prone to mistakes sometimes.
Colin Anderton Member
Posts: 151 From: Great Britain Registered: Jan 2005
posted 03-07-2009 04:28 AM
Jay, I understand where you're coming from regarding those original tracking station video tapes, and I of course — like everyone else here — hope that these tapes will turn up (although I very much doubt they were kept).
But in many ways I enjoy seeing the broadcast as we saw it at the time — and that was like the original video, as broadcast by ABC in 1989. (NBC showed their coverage, but much of the later part of the EVA — at least as far as audio was concerned — was mucked about with!)
I'm just making the point that the network video remains the best footage we have.
Blackarrow Member
Posts: 3118 From: Belfast, United Kingdom Registered: Feb 2002
posted 03-07-2009 05:27 PM
I always assumed that the live TV from the Moon which we saw on this side of the pond was of inferior quality to what America saw, if only because it had to reach us via another satellite link, and the quality of the transatlantic satellite link in 1969 was not great compared with pin-sharp HD transmissions nowadays.
Those of us old enough to have watch the transmissions live from 1969 to 1972 will remember that there was a big improvement in picture quality between Apollo 15 and Apollo 16 by the introduction of an image enhancement process developed by a North Hollywood company. Even NASA didn't know exactly how the process worked, but when the company showed what it could do with video-tapes of the Apollo 15 transmissions, NASA gave them a contract. (Source: press-cutting from the London "Daily Telegraph" a day before the launch of Apollo 16.)
This raises an interesting question: computer enhancement techniques are much better today. Has anyone ever used such a process to "clean up" the Apollo 11 video? Or to restore the original quality of the TV from the later missions? Or to let me see the level of quality I would have seen if I had been watching in Australia with a live feed from Parkes on a good TV?
Dwight Member
Posts: 576 From: Germany Registered: Dec 2003
posted 03-08-2009 08:51 AM
Without breaking confidence (thereby being somewhat vague in my response) I can say all options are being examined which would yield the best quality image from the Apollo missions.
Colin Anderton Member
Posts: 151 From: Great Britain Registered: Jan 2005
posted 03-08-2009 09:52 AM
You must remember that, although many people had TV sets inferior to those around today, any recordings retained in their original video format by the TV networks will look pretty much the same as todays "normal" (i.e. not HD) transmissions.
Many programmes now look vastly inferior to how they looked during their original broadcast, because they've been transferred to telecine (or kinescope, as the Americans call it).
I think some people are assuming that TV in the 60s and 70s was way below the quality of today's non-HD, and that just simply wasn't the case. But in any case, material saved by the networks was recorded directly from the studio, not from a normal TV set.
Blackarrow Member
Posts: 3118 From: Belfast, United Kingdom Registered: Feb 2002
posted 03-08-2009 01:49 PM
The point is that TV transmissions from the Moon, although literally "...TV in the 60s and 70s," was not the same as ordinary TV broadcasts.
I agree that if a TV documentary was recorded on film in, say, 1970, and is shown again today, the quality should be excellent if the film was stored properly, but TV from the Moon had fewer scan-lines and had to travel a long way, bouncing off several satellites, to get to my screen. Inevitably the picture was low-definition and noisy, even by the standards of the day. But to the best of my knowledge, no-one has used the "clean-up" techniques (at least not commercially) used for Apollos 16 and 17 to remove the noise from the Apollo 15 lunar surface video, or to restore the colour to the impaired parts of the lunar surface transmissions for any of the J Missions. It would be great to see the Apollo video the way it could have been seen live.
Gary George New Member
Posts: 2 From: Las Vegas, Nevada, USA Registered: Mar 2009
posted 03-16-2009 11:47 AM
This is pretty much the first time I have ever done a posting to a bulletin board. Please excuse the overly wordiness but that is how I am.
I am a retired Mechanical Engineer that worked as a Project Engineer / Project Manager in assorted Industries such as Aerospace, Pulp & Paper, Petrochem & even Residential Construction. My career started out as a Co-Op Student or what is now known as an Intern at NASA's Johnson Space Center in Houston, TX.
First off I want to say that with reference to NASA, I have nothing but the highest admiration for those people working there now or in the past. It was an absolute privilege to be allowed to work there for even a short 4 years as a student trainee. I still have a number of friends that work there and all that come to mind are tops in their respective fields. These are truly amazing people doing amazing things.
While there at the Space Center I was paid essentially minimum wage and as a starving college student I had to do a number of odd jobs to help make money for my college expenses. One such entrepreneurial endeavor was buying and selling different things in auctions and at flee markets. Remember this was a time before EBay. This is how I acquired the magnetic tapes of the Apollo 11 EVA. I had purchased a huge pile of magnetic tape of assorted types and sizes in a closed bid GSA auction which I sorted through and sold when I could (2" wide tape to TV stations near my college). In several other cases I was able to donate tapes to my university and even a church in the area that had its own television show. Tax deductions are good to.
There were just a few tapes in the lot that I decided to hang on to under the assumption that with time they might become valuable. This included 3 reels of 2" High Band tape that were labeled Apollo 11 EVA. Now, I always assumed that these were just one set of many backup copies of that event that NASA had in its possession. I had never actually seen what was on these particular tapes but was pretty sure they did have video on them and it was as labeled. After all I had seen what was on many of those similar reels that I sold and they were as labeled.
In January of 2008 I was talking to one of my friends that works there in Houston for NASA and found out there was a search underway to locate the "Lost Apollo 11 EVA Tapes" to which I responded, "Oh, I Have Those". After the silence ended we talked a little more and exchanged more detailed information and I agreed to e-mail him pictures of what I had. I had not seen any of the news reports that came out in 2006 so I was very surprised that there was any interest on NASA's part in what I had. The following week I got an e-mail from my friend that gave many more technical details as to what NASA was searching for and in one of the first of probably more than a hundred phone calls it was explained to me that, what I had were not the original Slow Scan Data type tapes. The Slow Scan Tapes were on 1" media and that what I probably had were actually Broadcast tapes that were recorded there at the Johnson Space Center as the signal was sent there from one of the receiving stations in California or Australia. So I have known since that time that what I have are not the Lost Slow Scan Tapes that were being searched for. None the less NASA was still quite interested in seeing what I had. They explained that even though these were defiantly not the Slow Scan Tapes, they needed to view them in order to exhaust all possible sources of a better quality copy of the EVA Video than what they already had.
With out going into a lot of detail, myself and NASA were not able to come to an agreement on several things including, but not limited to, how to transport the tapes to one of the few places left where the 2" Tape Machines still existed. I guess I should mention that no money was ever offered by NASA or ask for by me. There negotiations were directed at me donating the data on the tapes if they decided they wanted it.
From the months of calls and hundreds of e-mails I gathered that even though NASA and I didn't come to an agreement, there probably was still significant historical significance to even a lost copy of the Broadcast Video Tapes so I located a company, on my own, with the equipment and "know how" to safely handle and view the tapes.
DC Video in Burbank California proved to be tremendous find and was where these tapes were spooled up and viewed for the first time, in at least 33 years (since I have been hanging on to them). Not only were they exactly what they were labeled, they were in surprisingly good shape. The picture quality though not hugely different appeared to be say 15% to 20% better than anything I have ever seen. The other people in the room all seemed to agree. Plans were made to come back and make digital copies of each of the 3 - 45 minute tapes. I figured that it would be worth the few thousand dollars to make sure that the Video contained on the tapes was preserved and that no further degradation would occur.
Prior to that return visit I entered into a licensing agreement with Renaissance Entertainment & Media Group, LLC for the production of a Documentary film about these lost tapes and my story as to how they survived.
With reference to Mr. Pearlman's posting on this site that Renaissance Entertainment & Media Group's press release is inaccurate if not misleading, I would like to respond.
On the point that the tapes in my possession are not the lost tapes that made headlines in 2006, Renaissance Entertainment's release states, in the first sentence, that these are the Broadcast Video Tapes of the Apollo 11 EVA. There is no claim that they are the Lost Slow Scan Tapes.
With reference to if they are not of better quality than the existing sources, I find it odd that NASA would confirm that, since they have not ever seen our final digitized copy. There was a former NASA employee present when we first viewed the tapes but he is the only person associated with NASA that has actually ever seen the Video. As to determining who's are of the highest quality, it seems pretty simple to me. We will let the public decide.
I hope a few people will actually take the time to read through this. I am just a regular guy in a somewhat irregular situation. It has been my hope through all of this to preserve the contents of these Tapes and make the Video available to those that want to work with it. I'm really not kidding. The picture quality on them looks better to me than anything I have seen.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42981 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 03-16-2009 12:10 PM
Gary, welcome to collectSPACE. I appreciate your taking the time to respond, however I still feel that the release was misleading. To respond to your direct points:
The headline prominently mentions "Lost Apollo 11 Tapes" and "lost" is used to describe your tapes throughout the text of the release. This seems like a move to elicit attention based on the story of the lost slow scan TV tapes.
While it is stated that yours were broadcast tapes, I would suggest that that is not enough, as it assumes that the media -- especially entertainment press to whom the release is partially directed -- would know the difference.
Further, technically speaking, your tapes were never lost; they were sold at a GSA auction, which means they were deaccessioned by the government.
Your tapes are, according to NASA, of the same quality, same type and same source as was recorded elsewhere and exists within the NASA archives. Unless you have proof to the contrary, the claim that your tapes of better quality is misleading. If you are re-mastering the tapes, applying digital restoration, by all means tout that -- but also know that you are not the only person to do that with the same quality source tapes.
Lastly, you mention that "the picture quality on [your tapes] looks better to me than anything I have seen." A question: how many different versions of the Apollo 11 footage have you personally screened?
spacecraft films Member
Posts: 802 From: Columbus, OH USA Registered: Jun 2002
posted 03-16-2009 12:15 PM
Mr George, it is my understanding that there are 3 reels - each with around 30 minutes of material, so they represent only about an hour and a half of the EVA, correct?
Also, there are existent other video copies of the Apollo 11 EVA, derived from 2" quad recordings made at that time, that have been digitized for preservation and for future work.
jimsz Member
Posts: 616 From: Registered: Aug 2006
posted 03-16-2009 12:18 PM
Gary, very interesting read! I for one look forward to seeing these tapes in the future.
If you were smart enough to buy these tapes, hold on to them and have now invested your own money, you deserve to make a profit and I hope you do.
3% to a charity (any charity) is generous. If the said charity does not want your money, give it to one that is more appreciative.
Gary George New Member
Posts: 2 From: Las Vegas, Nevada, USA Registered: Mar 2009
posted 03-16-2009 04:02 PM
quote:Originally posted by spacecraft films: Mr George, it is my understanding that there are 3 reels - each with around 30 minutes of material, so they represent only about an hour and a half of the EVA, correct?
The tapes that I have are each in excess of 45 minutes. When viewed the first time the retired NASA employee that was gracious enough to be in attendance, was the one that said they were 30 minute reels. Later when we did the digitization they were found to be non-standard and in excess of 45 minutes each. The first reel has a little less usable video because whoever actually did the recording changed from the first to the second reel at the time during the EVA when the Astronauts changed the lens on the camera and the video was out of focus. Reels 2 & 3 have a little more than 45 minutes each on them as we determined when we did the digital copy. I would need to check with DC Video to see what the exact times were. The other thing that seem most important to me is that reels 1 & 2 have the most important and historic activities on them such as the first steps of each Astronaut, the raising of the flag, the unveiling of the placket and President Nixon's phone call.
As to the other recordings that are out there I have looked at as many different sources as I have had time to, including some recommended by the person that must have told you the tapes are only 30 minutes long and the copy we have looks 10% to 15% better than any of them.
spacecraft films Member
Posts: 802 From: Columbus, OH USA Registered: Jun 2002
posted 03-16-2009 04:50 PM
quote:Originally posted by Gary George: The picture quality though not hugely different appeared to be say 15% to 20% better than anything I have ever seen.
...and the copy we have looks 10% to 15% better than any of them.
The quality went down 10% just today.
I would agree with Robert on the misleading nature of the release. Of course, if you were to remove "lost tapes" from your materials, that wouldn't be misleading and you would be much more accurate... and as you say, let the public decide.
The "lost tapes" is clearly an attempt to take advantage of the news stories about the slow-scan tapes. And as I have said before , there are other recordings of the very same type, that are of equal quality. And these have not yet been in wide circulation, so you wouldn't have seen them.
I wish you the best of luck. The market for this material is actually pretty small. Perhaps you'll enlarge it! But you should really do it honestly rather than through the "lost tapes" pitch.
jimsz Member
Posts: 616 From: Registered: Aug 2006
posted 03-16-2009 09:06 PM
quote:Originally posted by spacecraft films: I would agree with Robert on the misleading nature of the release.
I don't see his description as being misleading. Is it a stretch to say "lost", probably. NASA obviously had an interest in what he had as they appear to have expressed great interest.
quote:Originally posted by Robert Pearlman: The "lost tapes" is clearly an attempt to take advantage of the news stories about the slow-scan tapes. And as I have said before , there are other recordings of the very same type, that are of equal quality. And these have not yet been in wide circulation, so you wouldn't have seen them.
Building interest is business. That's what a press release is for.
The owner of these tapes may not have seen the tapes that are "out there" but neither have any of us seen the tapes that he has.
The attitude and public scolding being dished out is distasteful and a bit rude.
Let the gentleman release his tapes/disk, whatever form it will be and let the public decide. If the quality is not better, word will get out and people will not buy it. If the quality is better, many will buy.
spacecraft films Member
Posts: 802 From: Columbus, OH USA Registered: Jun 2002
posted 03-16-2009 09:32 PM
quote:Originally posted by jimsz: Let the gentleman release his tapes/disk, whatever form it will be and let the public decide.
I think that is what I said above. But heralding them as the "lost tapes" is a lie. It goes beyond puffery and is merely dishonest.
There's no "attitude" or "public scolding" involved in calling someone on a false claim. They are not "lost tapes."
Vintage Videotape New Member
Posts: 2 From: Burbank, California, USA Registered: Apr 2009
posted 06-16-2009 09:40 AM
Greetings! This is my first post. In regards to Mr. George's 2" videotapes of the Apollo 11 EVA, I thought the group would like to see some of the images. Please look at this link. I look forward to any comments or questions anyone might have.
paulus humungus Member
Posts: 400 From: Burton, Derbyshire, England Registered: Oct 2005
posted 06-17-2009 08:39 AM
Are these the new EVA tapes that will make it onto the Spacecraft Films new four-disc Apollo 11 set?
spacecraft films Member
Posts: 802 From: Columbus, OH USA Registered: Jun 2002
posted 06-17-2009 09:33 AM
No, they are not. That is all I can say at this time (concerning the specific question), except that there isn't anything exceptional about the tapes mentioned here, and they aren't complete.
jimsz Member
Posts: 616 From: Registered: Aug 2006
posted 06-17-2009 10:51 AM
Valid. But, I for one look forward to seeing them.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42981 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-17-2009 11:38 AM
quote:Originally posted by Vintage Videotape: Please look at this link.
On that page, the text in part reads:
...appear to exceed any known copies in existence, as per web discussions and conversations with Apollo 11 enthusiasts.
Can you point us to the web discussions and identify the Apollo 11 enthusiasts who were consulted? I would be interested in possibly including some of their comments in an upcoming article on the Apollo 11 footage and its distribution 40 years later.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42981 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 07-19-2009 09:03 AM
On the same day NASA revealed the fate of the "lost tapes", Tranquility Pictures (formerly Renaissance Entertainment) released the trailer for "July Moon":
aunique New Member
Posts: 1 From: IL Registered: Mar 2009
posted 08-15-2009 12:34 PM
Just to clarify... Renaissance owns the production rights to the tapes. Tranquility Pictures is a film company producing "July Moon". These are two separate entities.
posted 03-05-2009 10:04 PM
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