posted 06-08-2012 07:59 PM               

I also do take into account that he came to an autograph show to make money. What would people rather have, no Dave Scott or no photo without an autograph?

posted 06-09-2012 06:11 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by p51:
I'd say that if you cannot foresee that you'll likely have to pay for any kind of interaction with an astronaut, knowing that they often charge for everything, don't turn up.

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posted 06-09-2012 06:48 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Fra Mauro:
Like with athletes, astronauts should be glad people still remember them.

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I don't think you can answer for others, otherwise you risk being presumptuous.

I grew up with someone who became a well known movie actor. You'd probably call him a star. But he cannot go into a Home Depot or a burger joint without being mobbed. It's very unappealing to say the least.

This is someone who hasn't made a movie in 10-15 years (I don't follow his career). He has grown a beard and wears disguises to go out in public. He is not glad at all to be remembered by the public.

We should see this as an example of how lucky we are that most astronauts are approachable.

posted 06-09-2012 09:17 AM               

The problem I see here is the way Scott handled the situation. A bad choice of words, if you will. There seems to be a universal feeling among the posters that he could have handled it far better than he did.

posted 06-09-2012 09:33 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Tykeanaut:
Surely the very age group that should be enthused and encouraged?

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People have used kids to get autographs so they can turn them around for sale all the time, I've watched it happen before. You know astronauts know this, so why should their rules be any different based on age?

It's oh so easy for people to think that an astronaut should be a certain way, but as it's been well pointed out here already, they've earned the right to be as aggravating as they want. Considering some never show up for public things, would you rather pay for that photo with your kid, or would you rather wish that said person would show up in public someday so you could get the change to pay to interact with him?

posted 06-09-2012 01:32 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by DChudwin:
I do not think an unsigned photo of an astronaut with a child has any commercial value, so the argument about people using kids to get autographs in the past does not apply to this situation.

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posted 06-09-2012 03:07 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by DChudwin:
I do not think an unsigned photo of an astronaut with a child has any commercial value, so the argument about people using kids to get autographs in the past does not apply to this situation.

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Exactly. The photo would have no commercial value, just sentimental value.

Look at it this way. How would one feel if they ask to shake an astronaut's hand and are told "no hand shakes without an autograph purchase."

As stated previously, the astronauts reserve the right to refuse photos if they wish. But these events do contain a certain degree of public relations to them. Better PR often results in better profits.

posted 06-09-2012 03:13 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by p51:
No, actually, it very much applies. People know that kids are used to get stuff for adults all the time. People in the public eye KNOW this, so therefore often using the "but it's for my kid" argument often automatically falls on deaf ears because of the reason above.

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posted 06-09-2012 03:31 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by mjanovec:
The photo would have no commercial value, just sentimental value.

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Autographs and photographs are both personal mementos. Neither have an intrinsic value. It is only that collectors have decided to treat autographs as a commodity.

Who is to say that in the future, collectors won't also start treating photographs similarly? Other areas of historical collecting already pay for personal photos with famous people — vintage photographs of people posing with presidents and Wild West outlaws are bought and sold. Why not astronauts?

posted 06-09-2012 04:48 PM               

I'm not trying to be rude to scrpien in any way, but I can't help but wonder if perhaps the conversation about the photo could have been misconstrued? It seems that Scott was clear that he wouldn't do a photo without an autograph. Fine, that's his prerogative. Is it possible, perhaps, that his comment about the Scott house was an attempt at humor, to lighten what might be an awkward moment?

posted 06-10-2012 01:32 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
Other areas of historical collecting already pay for personal photos with famous people — vintage photographs of people posing with presidents and Wild West outlaws are bought and sold. Why not astronauts?

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I can see vintage photos of the astronauts at work (in training or during missions) having both historic and monetary value.

posted 06-10-2012 06:01 PM               

He was great at the first Spacefest, maybe because he did well. He greeted everyone cordially, especially kids.

We only pay for astronaut travel, lodging, banquet, and some meals, normally. Some speakers won't even consider coming (for a hour) without a handsome honorarium, or five-figure fee.

posted 06-10-2012 06:54 PM               

Fortunately we were able to do some sightseeing while we were in Arizona and made it into a family vacation. This past April we returned to Arizona with our daughters, and I was surprised when neither of them remembered visiting the Grand Canyon. We started taking about the trip in 2007 and do you know what they did remember? They both remembered how Alan Bean got down on one knee to take a photograph with them, and our oldest daughter remembered how Gene Cernan talked about driving the 'moon buggy' on his mission. It made a big impact on them, and I am thankful for time that all of those men gave to my daughters.

More recently one of them had to do a report on an astronaut. She chose Charlie Duke, and front and center on her poster was a photo of her and her sister with him at Spacefest. The other kids asked her all sorts of questions about meeting him, and there was a lot of excitement about what our space program has done. And will do.

posted 06-11-2012 11:02 AM               

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Originally posted by MrSpace86:
I don't consider myself lucky by any stretch of the imagination that these guys appear and sign.

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posted 06-11-2012 11:28 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by schnappsicle:
Buried somewhere deep below the obvious "No" answer is an absolute "Yes".

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They're entitled to retire, just like anyone else. They are not obligated to sign autographs or get in photos with people who see them in grocery stores, lines at the post office, etc. They should do a polite, "thanks, but I am not comfortable with that," to anyone who interrupts their private time.

I do, however, think something like Spacefest is a different matter. That weekend, those who elect to come are sort of volunteering to be "in the barrel" again, and are getting handsome fees for those autographs.

Photo ops are not included specifically, yet I think a lot of people, particularly locals, who come and pay the nominal fee to get into the autograph/art show area ARE expecting to get photos. If it is going to be fee only, or if some astronauts are going to charge for photos, or not allow them except with an autograph, I think the public needs to know that.

posted 06-11-2012 01:48 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by schnappsicle:
After all, we're the ones who paid for their trip into space. We're the ones who give them the glory and attention they earned by risking their lives by putting themselves on top of a rocket.

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Which is it...did they have the glory given to them or did they earn it? You can't have it both ways. If they earned it, then there is no obligation for them to repay anything.

Let's count the ways they earned it:

• Risking their lives for their country's space program. There's a wall in Florida that lists many who paid the ultimate price.
  
• Countless hours of training, away from their homes and families...often missing out on seeing their children grow up.
  
• Hard work and long hours developing their careers prior to becoming an astronaut, which often included combat assignments in defense of their country.
  
• Successfully meeting Kennedy's goal to put man on the moon and inspiring the nation (if not the entire world)
  
• Public relations work carried out while on duty as active astronauts.

Nowhere was there any obligation (written or implied) for them to carry out public relations for the remainder of their lives, after they retired from the space program. Granted, many astronauts (Armstrong included) chose to give our free autographs for years (or decades) after retiring. They did that out of their own generosity, not an obligation. Most stopped when they saw their generosity being abused.

posted 06-11-2012 04:59 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by mjanovec:
But modern images of the retired astronauts attending an autograph show are neither rare or terribly unique... and have almost no historic value.

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posted 06-11-2012 07:39 PM               

Sorry, but that admittedly ridiculous scenario makes as much sense as some of the other theories written here so far.

posted 06-12-2012 06:12 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Spacefest:
Consider yourselves lucky.

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posted 06-12-2012 06:23 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by mjanovec:
Which is it... did they have the glory given to them or did they earn it? You can't have it both ways. If they earned it, then there is no obligation for them to repay anything.

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posted 06-12-2012 06:51 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Spacefest:
Unless you're really old, you didn't pay much in taxes to send these guys up.

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Don't misunderstand me, I'm not complaining in the least. I just want to clarify my earlier comment. We all paid for the rides these guys took and to that extent they do owe us, but I believe their debt was paid in full by the time they retired from NASA.

posted 06-12-2012 09:53 AM            

The astronauts I have met have always been wonderful about talking to folks and taking pictures. It should be mentioned that the general population does not have the means to pay hundreds of dollars for an autograph from their hero so in some cases the photo with them maybe all they ever get. It is not unreasonable to charge a small fee for a photo if your not getting an autograph but I think inspiring kids should be a consideration as well.

I will say Dave Scott also refused a photo with my Granddaughter but she forgot all about it when Buzz told her she touched the moon and Dick Gordon picked her up and danced with her. Those are the priceless ones for our family.

posted 06-12-2012 01:16 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by schnappsicle:
There's a huge difference between a taking a photo with a couple of kids and signing one that has the strong likelihood for future resale.

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I for one am sick to death of the "but it's for a kid" excuse to justify anything the parent wants. I see it at airshows all the time, parents often become children themselves because they want exceptions for their kids. A good example can be found among people who display airplanes or military vehicles at airshows, all of the owners of which can testify that they often get people demanding exceptions, parents can downright scary when they decide that junior MUST have a photo of himself sitting in the cockpit of a fighter plane (oddly, most of the time, you never hear the kid actually ask). Sorry, you say that you don't let people sit there? You monster! It's for a kid! How could you not make an exception? You charge for a photo or a signature? But it's for a kid!

I don't think that it being a kid is an issue, nor should it ever be. People can decide how they interact with other and under what conditions. I'm glad to live in the country where astronauts can make that call.

posted 06-12-2012 01:35 PM               

Nobody seems to have been asking for anything "special." Nobody's climbing into the cockpit of a show plane, or asking for a free signature when prices are posted, or anything else. I have to say when I attended Spacefest I was pretty impressed -- I am a morning person and was down in Starbucks every morning about 6 am, and I'd sit there and drink coffee and read the paper and check my e-mail and stuff, and when the astronauts were in line, or sitting with their wives drinking coffee, I saw no violations of privacy, no photo requests, no covert photography or any of that sort of thing. Just a smile and nod, and that was that. I was impressed. I think the astronauts in question were grateful.

posted 06-12-2012 02:06 PM            

As stated earlier as someone who frequently works with actors on the scale of Patrick Stewart and Vivica A. Fox I see first hand how they treat their fans in a controlled setting such as an autograph show. More directly, taking a photo with a kid, who may or may not be the center of someone's universe, is not on the same scale as a safety issue due to sitting in an airplane.

posted 06-12-2012 05:23 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by p51:
I'd say that if you cannot foresee that you'll likely have to pay for any kind of interaction with an astronaut, knowing that they often charge for everything, don't turn up.

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People have written here claiming that these photos have market value. I totally disagree. The only photo of a celebrity with a fan that I know of that has had any market value at all is the photo of John Lennon signing an album cover for Mark Chapman. The only reason that photo has value is because of the horror that happened a few hours later. Every other photo of a fan taken with a celebrity has had value only to the person standing next to the celebrity or their immediate family members. That value is strictly sentimental, not monetary. Not me, or anyone I know, would pay anything for such a photo, unless perhaps it's autographed. The purpose of such a photo is simply icing on the cake. It's advertising for friends and family. It gives common folks like me the chance to say, "Look who I met." Nothing more, nothing less.

Those of you who remember Carl Lewis might know that he had his picture taken with Jessie Owens when he was a small boy. That meeting and the photo his father took of the two of them inspired Carl to be like his hero. I don't want to use kids as an excuse, but for a young child to be photographed with someone who's been to the moon could very well launch that child a little further in life, just as it did for Carl Lewis. I know it worked for my daughter too.

posted 06-12-2012 08:45 PM               

I regret not starting the collecting of astronaut autographs decades earlier — "they will always be around." This idea of everything being a fee paid thing is something else.

I have been working since 1979 and still in 2012 cannot afford to travel to these shows, much less pay the current fees asked. If you live in the mid-west, appearances are extremely rare and frequently with little notice. Yet eBay has become the only source for the majority of my collection — through the mail has been the other.

I spent my birthday in 1982 flying on a DC-3 to four cities on a freight run courtesy of the owner price requested $0.00 — I flew aboard a B25 twice in 1975 in an airshow and in 1977 on a radio alignment flight price requested $0.00. They are priceless to me.

posted 06-16-2012 09:55 PM               

I also cringe when parents use their kids as weapons to get what they want. I am sure the three, four, five year old little girl has no idea who Buzz Aldrin (or Dave Scott) is and has no idea who the guy in the white suit is surrounded by grey dirt.

I don't have any kids so I may not know what it would be like to do whatever takes to satisfy your own child. However, my parents never tried to get me to like what they like. They let me do my own thing and like whatever I wanted. Times have changed though and I still feel a little weird paying for autographs sometimes.