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Author
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Topic: Why Neil Armstrong no longer signs
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robsouth
Member Posts: 769
From: West Midlands, UK
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted 01-23-2008 08:46 PM
  
Can anyone explain to me the main reason(s) why Neil Armstrong gave up signing his autograph? |
stsmithva
Member Posts: 1933
From: Fairfax, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 01-23-2008 08:46 PM
I believe the two most commonly cited reasons are: - Seeing how many people were selling his autograph online (he stopped signing in about 1993, just as online sales took off); and
- Reaching his limit after signing for thousands of people over 30 years. Some of the in-person requests were probably quite inappropriate - during meals, for example. It became easier to just turn everyone down.
But perhaps someone else will post something I'm omitting. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42981
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 01-23-2008 08:51 PM
Vivian White, Armstrong's long-time personal assistant, answered this question in an interview with James Hansen, author of "First Man," Armstrong's authorized biography: For the first twelve to fifteen years [since she was hired], he would sign anything he was asked to sign, except a first-day cover. Sometimes a letter would come in and I would think, 'That name looks familiar. I think this guy has asked before.' So I would go back through the files and check to see if Neil had signed for the guy before. If so, I would just send it back unsigned. Then about 1993, he realized his autographs were being sold over the Internet. Many of the signatures, he found, were forgeries. So he just quit signing. |
gmt295
Member Posts: 35
From: Waretown, NJ USA
Registered: Jul 2007
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posted 01-23-2008 10:43 PM
It's so unfortunate for my generation to not be able to obtain his autograph because of the greed of those before me. I wonder if he'll ever be open to signing again? |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 01-24-2008 03:49 AM
Don't count on it. The commercialization of Neil's autograph from 1993 to present has only gotten MUCH worse. In some sort of irony, Neil's decision to stop signing only made the market for his signatures (and forgeries) much larger.The demand for Neil's signature is now so great that Neil could probably never catch up from where he left off in the early 90s. I think another factor behind his decision was to reclaim that part of his life back. He routinely spent 30 minutes a day signing stuff. Add that time up over the 30+ years he signed, and you can see how much of his life he devoted to signing autographs. Now that he's in the autumn of his years, I think he wants to keep as much of his remaining time doing the things he wants to do. Signing autographs just isn't a priority for him anymore. |
nasamad
Member Posts: 2121
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 01-24-2008 03:07 PM
It would be nice if he would do a commercial signing just once though, maybe for an organisation like the Astronaut Scholarship Foundation, 1000 signatures at $1000 each would provide 100 scholarships! (And provide 1000 of us with solid Armstrong signed photos.) But I can also fully appreciate why he had to stop. |
gmt295
Member Posts: 35
From: Waretown, NJ USA
Registered: Jul 2007
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posted 01-24-2008 08:41 PM
Don't get me wrong, I understand it must have taken up some of his time. But to completely stop... and continue not signing for anybody all these years later. I don't think I'd have it in me to refuse someone who wanted my autograph, especially a kid. I guess I'm just complaining. |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 01-25-2008 12:21 AM
Problem is, if he did sign for kids, there are some low-lifes out there who would employ children to hound Neil for his autograph. In fact, I believe it's already been done. So, since Neil can longer distinguish who is honest and who isn't, he figures the best (and fairest) policy is to sign for nobody. Don't blame Neil. Blame those who have exploited him and his generosity. |
1202 Alarm
Member Posts: 436
From: Switzerland & France
Registered: Nov 2003
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posted 01-25-2008 03:33 AM
A good idea would have been a limited edition of, let's say 5000 official prints or SPs, all with numbers and CoAs, signed each year and sold for a good cause (or for himself, after all).But since I've got my own signed 8x10, I can't complain. The dream would be his sign on my 'Moonwalker' print. It seems that each time I look at it, I don't see the 11 other signatures but just the empty space below his name! |
jam1970
Member Posts: 310
From: Chillicothe, Ohio, usa
Registered: Mar 2004
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posted 01-25-2008 06:30 AM
5000 prints at $1000 - wow that is 5 million dollars. I can't see why anyone would turn that kind of money down just to spend a few days to sign their name. When someone asks him for his autograph - he could just hand them a business card with the website for his prints.What would be smart (and maybe he is doing this) is to sign thousands of items and put it into storage for his family as a type of insurance policy. Just imaging if he has a storage pod buried in the backyard and all these years he has been signing limited books, covers, pictures, and maybe saving hair clippings (not my thing) etc. Who knows maybe we could all get a chance to have a unconditional guaranteed autograph in the future. Then again, maybe he really is turned off by all of us and will never do any more autographs. |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 2912
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 01-25-2008 07:14 AM
quote:
Originally posted by jam1970:
Then again, maybe he really is turned off by all of us and will never do any more autographs.
That reminds me of what Armstrong's crewmate, Michael Collins, said in one of his books. I don't have the exact quote in front of me, but Collins said something like there is a special "autograph hell" waiting for autograph collectors. Apparently, long ago, he was turned off by some autograph hounds. After his GT-10 mission, he also tells about a woman that kept asking him to sign many pieces of scrap paper and ordering him to "sign your name so that I can read it." Ha, can you believe some people like this arrogant woman. Perhaps she was never a true space fan as many of us are today. And that was in 1966 when ebay, autograph dealers, etc. were practically non-existent.One of my early encounters with Collins was in 1976 at Kennedy Space Center. He was doing a function here and afterwards I approached him for an autograph. He turned around and I kindly, but shyly, asked if he would sign two of my Apollo 11 postal covers. He said "sure thing" and scrawled "M Collins" on both of them. I thanked him and that was my first in-person Collins encounter. And perhaps his recent signing opportunities with Novaspace are indeed encouraging for many fans and collectors. |
nasamad
Member Posts: 2121
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Jul 2001
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posted 01-25-2008 09:02 AM
I don't imagine Neil to be money motivated, if he was I would imagine he could have put his face and name to hundreds of products over the years and made a mint.I know he put his name to Chrysler a number of years ago but didn't he say something about him only putting his name behind something he believes in. Something to be said for that kind of integrity I think. |
Apollo14LMP
Member Posts: 291
From: UK
Registered: Nov 2007
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posted 01-25-2008 09:16 AM
After hearing Neil Armstrong in person describe the sale of a signature (an autograph) an unsavoury business, I wouldn't hold your breath on him ever signing anything EVER again... no matter what the financial offer may be.I don't think he is ever going to change his mind on that score... |
garymilgrom
Member Posts: 1966
From: Atlanta, GA
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 01-25-2008 09:20 AM
I think the people who suggest Neil change the way he lives his life out of greed (that is, to be paid large sums) have no idea of the downside and true cost of being famous.I was lucky enough to know a comedian growing up and remain friends to this day. This guy went on to become a well known movie star. He cannot enter a restaurant or go to Home Depot without being swamped. Flying with this guy on a commercial flight is a real lesson in lack of privacy. He has suffered the ups and downs of life like anyone else, including terrible personal tragedy, yet the public thinks he has been put on this earth to make them happy. This is for a mid-level entertainment star. Neil is arguably the most famous person in the world, and the demands and intrusions into his life would only be worse. I don't fault Neil in the least for living his life on his terms. Remember, entertainment people start out wanting fame and fortune, but (most) astronauts start out as military pilots, trying to help their country. Given that most entertainment stars detest fame once they've earned it, think how it would bother a more private individual. To the person who suggested Neil sign more things as a way to become an American hero, I think Neil's demand of privacy adds to the lustre on his reputation as a hero, not diminishes it. |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 01-25-2008 12:51 PM
Plus, imagine what would happen if Neil started selling $1000 autographs. It wouldn't take very long at all before someone would write a story about how Neil is content to sell his autograph for $1000, but turns down a request from a child. |
KSCartist
Member Posts: 2896
From: Titusville, FL USA
Registered: Feb 2005
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posted 01-26-2008 02:41 AM
I'm sorry to say that in today's world there is no such thing as "a kid who would want the autograph for themselves."I arranged a space day at a local school a few years ago. It was a huge success. Lots of participants and presentations, fantastic day. One engineer brought in pieces of the recovery parachutes along with pieces of insulation from the shuttle SRB's. He handed them out to the students and within 48 hours one of those kids (who will probably become a billionaire) sold his little packet on ebay for $50.00. Kids today are a lot more savvy then us old foks were when we were kids. If Neil were to be approached for an autograph by a kid (and no doubt was in the 1990's) the kid or his parents would think nothing of selling it even for something as noble as the kids college fund. I think Neil Armstrong is a man of integrity, a true American hero and if greed hadn't overtaken his signature would still sign today. I don't fault him at all for his decision and wish him only the best. |
stsmithva
Member Posts: 1933
From: Fairfax, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 01-26-2008 06:18 AM
quote:
Originally posted by KSCartist:
I'm sorry to say that in today's world there is no such thing as "a kid who would want the autograph for themselves."
I do think that little eBay tycoon is the exception, not the rule. I teach elementary school, and year after year I've seen students excited to get the autographs of guests, from authors to basketball players who come to the school on Dr. Seuss's birthday to read aloud. These signed cards and papers usually get slid into their 3-ring binder covers to get looked at for the rest of the year. On Thursday I told them that our next "unofficial field trip" (something fun and educational after school or on a weekend; parents must stay) will be to the Udvar-Hazy Center on February 9. My class learned just a month ago about the Tuskegee Airmen, and some of them will be there that day to answer questions and shake hands. The first question any student asked was "Can we get their autographs?" |
Rizz
Member Posts: 1208
From: Upcountry, Maui, Hawaii
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 01-26-2008 12:55 PM
quote:
Originally posted by KSCartist:
I'm sorry to say that in today's world there is no such thing as "a kid who would want the autograph for themselves."
Well, rare as it may be, they do exist. I've seen them, and I am the parent of one.When I told my son that I was going to Burbank, basically to meet and converse with the guests, he begged me to take him with me. When I asked him why, he explained (at 10 years old at the time), that he wanted to meet them and ask them questions also. When I explained that it was an autograph show, his eyes lit up, and he asked if we could get a Saturn V signed by the guests he was going to meet. How could I say no? Burbank and Spacefest are two events that he will always remember. With regards to Armstrong not signing any more, I know for a fact that he has, and it was for a young kid, not too long ago, whom by the way, will NEVER sell the artifact. And no, it's not my kid. Armstrong is the only living moonwalkers signature that we don't have, and quite honestly could care less about. I respect his decision. His choice to no longer sign, will be debated until the end of time. |
albatron
Member Posts: 2732
From: Stuart, Florida
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted 01-26-2008 05:27 PM
And don't forget the hair fiasco, the guy who paid his barber to sweep it up and sell it to him. Sad as it makes us he won't sign, he signed enough for every single astronaut when he did. His heroism isn't weighed on his signature. He is the true definition of a hero. |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 01-26-2008 05:40 PM
And don't forget the people who followed him around golf courses or wrote to him from multiple P.O. Boxes.About half a year ago, someone called me out of the blue - at work - to ask me for a favor. During the call this person, who I think has to be one of the most obnoxious people I've ever talked to, laughingly told me how a dozen or so years ago he had followed Armstrong around a golf course all day with someone else, sneakily getting signed photos out of him. He explained to me in detail how it worked: He and this other person would approach a couple and offer the couple two lithos to get signed by Neil, if the couple would give one signed litho back to them. He told me, "At end end of the day, we were just exhausted". The lack of class was astounding. No wonder Armstrong doesn't sign anymore. It's a miracle he signed for as long as he did. |
collocation
Member Posts: 383
From: McLean, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2004
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posted 01-26-2008 07:43 PM
Can anyone verify that Lindbergh advised all three Apollo 11 astronauts that they should not sign autographs because sooner or later it would become a burden, or is this just an urban legend? Thank you. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42981
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 01-26-2008 07:50 PM
Armstrong recounts in First Man that Lindbergh told him "never to sign autographs" at a Society of Experimental Test Pilots banquet in 1969. Said Armstrong, "Unfortunately, I didn't take his advice for thirty years, and I probably should have." |
MrSpace86
Member Posts: 1618
From: Gardner, KS, USA
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted 01-27-2008 02:00 AM
This subject has been debated for years and getting old. I just got back from the Cosmosphere event that featured Walt Cunningham. They also presented the film "The Wonder of it All" (amazing film, highly recommended) and the director spoke on how he managed to get 7 of the 9 living moonwalkers. Scott refused and Armstrong just never really replied and has turned similar projects down. Neil has the belief that ALL the people involved with the moon landing should be a part of such project from the command module pilot down to the janitors. Goes to show that the man while being noble and great and all the things you want, he is just another example of someone that just does not know how to handle celebrity. Yes, he did sign for 24 years after his historical voyage, but it has been 15 years since he stopped. He has not only helped ruin parts of the hobby, but I also think that his whole privacy issue is just damaging overall. He, out of all people, should try to help promote the return to the moon and the exploration of Mars. He did not even promote his own autobiography! The 60 minutes segment was a farce and seemed like something he just absolutely had to do. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42981
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 01-27-2008 03:05 AM
quote:
Originally posted by MrSpace86:
He, out of all people, should try to help promote the return to the moon and the exploration of Mars.
Armstrong, to his credit has been rather active in NASA's PR and planning efforts to promote going to the Moon, Mars and beyond. For example, the first moonwalker has hosted an interactive NASA website dedicated to the topic, recorded at least one program (if not more) that has aired on NASA TV, lent his name and foreword to NASA's official 50th anniversary book and spoken on the subject of continued space exploration at numerous events since the Vision was announced in 2004.And that's above and beyond being an active participant in NASA's Advisory Council, which has taken him to various NASA centers, where he's toured and met with those working on designing and building the next generation of Moon/Mars-bound vehicles. |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 01-27-2008 03:38 AM
quote:
Originally posted by MrSpace86:
Yes, he did sign for 24 years after that historical voyage, but it has been 15 years since he stopped. He has not only helped ruin parts of the hobby, but I also think that his whole privacy issue is just damaging overall.
Wow, I really can't believe someone actually feels this way. Armstrong probably signed hundreds of thousands of autographs between 1962 and 1994, never charging a penny. Indeed, he invested many hours of his life to reply to autograph seekers. How exactly did that hurt the hobby? Is it because he didn't sign an autograph for you? Neil has probably signed 10 times more autographs over the years than John Young ever did. Not to put him down, but Young has never really liked signing autographs. Sure, people received free autographs from him over the years when he worked at NASA. But he never signed to the extent that Neil did. quote:
He did not even promote his own autobiography! The 60 minutes segment was a farce and seemed like something he just absolutely had to do.
When did Neil Armstrong write an autobiography? Or are you referring to the authorized biography by James Hansen instead? If so, I believe the author of that book (Hansen) did a lot of promotional work. And Armstrong graciously made an appearance on 60 Minutes to support the author's work. |
robsouth
Member Posts: 769
From: West Midlands, UK
Registered: Jun 2005
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posted 01-27-2008 04:18 AM
I can understand the fact that after so many years he got tired of signing. Shame for the genuine space enthusiast that would want one for their collection. The price for one has also become out of the reach for many. |
albatron
Member Posts: 2732
From: Stuart, Florida
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted 01-27-2008 08:33 AM
quote:
Originally posted by MrSpace86:
He has not only helped ruin parts of the hobby, but I also think that his whole privacy issue is just damaging overall.
And thus sums it all up. Need anyone ask further. |
Lunar rock nut
Member Posts: 911
From: Oklahoma city, Oklahoma U.S.A.
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 01-27-2008 11:07 AM
Leave Neil alone, waaah, boo hoo. Stop picking on him. Some one put on a wig and make a video clip for YouTube like the one for Spears. |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 01-27-2008 11:22 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Lunar rock nut:
Leave Neil alone, waaah, boo hoo. Stop picking on him. Some one put on a wig and make a video clip for YouTube like the one for Spears.
Actually, for some people, I think it goes like this: "I didn't get an autograph from Neil, waaah, boo hoo. Poor me. A better autographer should have walked on the moon first. Nevermind that he signed for so many years and I was too late to the party. He should still sign again for me, because it's all about me. Me. Me. Me."(At this point, it is appropriate to throw a tantrum and fling your sharpies against a wall.) |
MrSpace86
Member Posts: 1618
From: Gardner, KS, USA
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted 01-27-2008 12:40 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
Armstrong, to his credit has been rather active in NASA's PR and planning efforts to promote going to the Moon, Mars and beyond.
Well, I haven't seen much of it, but I guess that is being active. It just seems that I always see Aldrin and other Apollo astronauts pushing for these things. Maybe I am watching the wrong channels!! As for me crying "boo hoo, poor me" and throwing a tantrum, I really don't care if Neil sent me an autograph or not. What I have been enforcing here is his crusade for personal privacy is what led him to not sign autographs and such. And no, the hobby was not ruined because he did not sign for me. If I am not mistaken, the issue of Neil forgeries has been brought up countless times on this very forum. That is ruining the hobby. Forgeries floating all over the place. And as far as the authorized biography goes (sorry for forgetting the 'authorized' part), I honestly think that Neil could have helped a little. The 60 Minutes appearance barely even talked about the book. |
Crsh4Csh
Member Posts: 113
From:
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 01-27-2008 02:23 PM
I've posted this before but since we are rehashing this subject already, my son and I have been very fortunate to have met Mr. Armstrong on a few occasions. He has been so gracious as to spend a little time with my little boy and gladly posed for pictures. I'm also fortunate to have a few things signed by him, but I can tell you matter of fact, I'd trade all of the signed items in a flat second for those pics and memories with Armstrong. Watching your little boy smile when he is listening to him talk, or seeing the pics later over time... PRICELESS! |
Henk Boshuijer
Member Posts: 450
From: Netherlands
Registered: May 2007
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posted 01-27-2008 02:40 PM
I think people should just respect Mr. Armstrong's decision not to sign anymore. The reason he stopped signing has nothing to do with the young generation. He is willing to pose for a picture with his fans. Personally I would prefer a picture with Mr. Armstrong instead of an autographed picture. Collectors have a tendency to look at the value that a certain picture represents. If I ask for an autograph I always ask to have it dedicated (this decreases the value for collector/resellers but increases my personal value [and pride] for this piece. In other words I think a real collector should only be satisfied when an autographed picture is dedicated to the collector -- and I mean the real name -- not a nickname). |
Larry McGlynn
Member Posts: 1255
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 01-27-2008 03:38 PM
All Neil Armstrong autographs will be declared forgeries by 2014. It will cause a bigger crash then the Subprime debacle of 2008. Cash out now and buy gold. |
capoetc
Member Posts: 2169
From: McKinney TX (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 01-27-2008 04:00 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Larry McGlynn:
Cash out now and buy gold.
Now THAT's some great advice, Larry!  I remember one time Ken Griffy, Jr. was talking about signing autographs. He said, "I can stand there for four hours signing autographs, but if I then walk away and there are still people waiting, those people will think I'm a jerk because I didn't sign for them." (Not a direct quote -- but I think I captured the gist of the statement). |
gliderpilotuk
Member Posts: 3398
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 01-28-2008 08:11 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Larry McGlynn:
All Neil Armstrong autographs will be declared forgeries by 2014. It will cause a bigger crash then the Subprime debacle of 2008. Cash out now and buy gold.
Not as far-fetched as it sounds, Larry. We know of at least two "collectors" (aka speculators), who have hoarded Armstrongs (allegedly, well over 100) ...for a rainy and distasteful day. Maybe, in their greed, they will flood the market and burst the bubble that has built up around his signature. Maybe.In-person Neil is charming and affable. Why anyone has to question his desire for privacy is beyond me. |
OWL
Member Posts: 175
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 01-28-2008 10:43 AM
I realise that Neil has indeed signed thousands of autographs over the years but in the current climate of 6500 dollars why are not more coming on to the market? |
garymilgrom
Member Posts: 1966
From: Atlanta, GA
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 01-28-2008 10:57 AM
If you want a house or a car or a pair of sneakers that you cannot afford, most people would work hard, save harder and look forward to the day they can realize their dream of purchasing same.If you want an autograph you cannot afford why does that give you the right to complain about it in public? Why is the lack of funds on your part someone else's fault? These things may be expensive, but they're not necessary to life. If you want something you cannot afford you can work hard, sacrifice other things and eventually afford it. It's a little something called the American way! Personally, I have sold thousands of dollars of auto racing memorabilia so I can afford space memorabilia. I'm grateful for the opportunity to purchase same, not spiteful over what the purchase price was. |
Apollo14LMP
Member Posts: 291
From: UK
Registered: Nov 2007
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posted 01-28-2008 11:55 AM
I have to agree... the in-person photograph with the man himself cannot be beaten! Rather have a photograph to remember a meeting with the first man on the Moon, than a signed piece of paper (which could be a forgery).Neil did say when I met him, I will when time and circumstances allow... have my photograph taken with a person. He didn't seem to have a problem with that at all... the unsavoury business of selling a signature is something I felt he found distasteful. He signed for long enough and doesn't want to anymore, end of game perhaps! |
Rick Mulheirn
Member Posts: 4167
From: England
Registered: Feb 2001
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posted 04-18-2010 03:45 PM
A typed signed letter on eBay provides an added insight into Neil Armstrong's opinion of autograph hunters. I don't think it is anything we did not already know but interesting to see it in writing... As you probably know, celebrity events have become overrun with autograph dealers and their paid gang of Oliver Twists. It is one of the things that we just don't handle properly, and I'm not certain what to suggest. Do we have a Fagin amongst us?Editor's note: Threads merged. |
Tykeanaut
Member Posts: 2212
From: Worcestershire, England, UK.
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 04-19-2010 05:45 AM
I'd be happy if I could even get a photo just inscribed "With best wishes or Good luck" without his signature. But I guess there is no chance of that either?It would be great if he would sign for genuine space enthusiasts, such as folks on here. |
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