|
Author
|
Topic: Apollo 8 crew signed in person at Dayton
|
AKnoll
New Member Posts:
From:
Registered:
|
posted 07-25-2004 01:06 PM
   
Hi I attended the National Aviation Hall of Fame dinner at the Air Force museum in Dayton, OH on 7/16 and was very fortunate to obtain all three signatures of the Apollo 8 crew. Although Borman and Lovell signed with no problem, I had to ask Mr. Anders about 6 times while no one was around before he finally agreed and signed my litho. He made me swear I would never sell it. The only bad thing is he personalized it. I really don't care because I never plan to sell it anyways. But how much does it hurt the value and how much would it be worth?
you can see a picture of it athome.att.net/~l.x.knoll/Apollo8.jpg Thank you
Anthony Knoll |
nasamad
Member Posts: 2121
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Jul 2001
|
posted 07-25-2004 01:51 PM
Hi Anthony, Congrats on your litho, but didn't it tell you something that you had to ask about 6 (!!!) times before Mr Anders signed it for you ?
Considering you say you never plan to sell it, you seem very interested to find out how much it would have been worth without the personalization. Most other people on this forum would love to have Mr Anders sign something for them, and if he personalized it, then I'd consider that a bonus. Personally I would have savoured the time talking to the man and asked for a photo, than pressure him into signing something for me. Just my 2p........Adam [This message has been edited by nasamad (edited July 25, 2004).] |
dtemple
Member Posts: 729
From: Longview, Texas, USA
Registered: Apr 2000
|
posted 07-25-2004 07:18 PM
Here's my two cents... Considering how Anders signed your litho, the value was not increased by much. The signature looks like a bad forgery - probably just what Anders intended. The personalization across the faces doesn't do much for the pic either. Of course this is just my opinion. If you are happy with it, don't worry about its value. At least when you look at the litho, you will have good memories of meeting the Apollo 8 crew - something I, nor a lot of people, have not had the opportunity to do. |
Dan Lorraine
Member Posts: 373
From: Cranston, R.I.
Registered: Nov 1999
|
posted 07-25-2004 09:43 PM
The Anders signature looks like nothing I've ever seen ... serves you right (and I'll bet that it was intentional)! (and I do believe your story). Enjoy the fact that you had the opportunity to meet the boys ... and for the value ... I'll let others decide.Dan Lorraine |
Rob Joyner
Member Posts: 1308
From: GA, USA
Registered: Jan 2004
|
posted 07-26-2004 12:19 AM
I agree with the others. I don't mean that you have ulterior motives, but that you should feel VERY lucky to have had all three sign. I've asked Lovell to sign. Declined. I've asked Anders to sign. Declined.
I have a copy of Dick Lattimer's book, 'All We Did Was Fly To The Moon', which is a mini-encyclopedia of all manned spaceflights through Apollo-Soyuz. I have every Apollo page signed by at least one crew member...except for Apollo 8.
And to be honest, I've often wondered what that book would be worth. I, too, have no intention of selling it, but sometimes you wonder about that stuff and that's okay. At least knowing that it is valuable makes me take very careful precautions when I take it to any sort of autograph show.
Rob
|
mensclub10@aol.com
New Member Posts:
From:
Registered:
|
posted 07-26-2004 12:08 PM
My personal opinion is that I have no problem with you asking our members their views as to the value of your new Apollo 8 crew signed litho. I also own an Apollo 8 crew signed litho and Borman personalized the litho. I'm sure it would be less valuable to some of our fellow non-personalization collectors and in you case maybe more so because of the Anders signature style and it's placement on the litho but like you said, you don't plan on selling it. I would be thrilled with my accomplishment and if it took you 6 times to finally get Mr. Anders (I would have given up after two attempts) so be it. Maybe it was a little rude but when would you ever have a chance like that again. You own a piece of history now and it didn't cost you an arm and a leg. It was a once in a lifetime opportunity! CONGRATULATIONS!  Dave [This message has been edited by mensclub10@aol.com (edited July 26, 2004).] |
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
|
posted 07-26-2004 12:28 PM
quote:
Originally posted by mensclub10@aol.com:
...and if it took 6 times to finally get Mr. Anders (I would have givin up after two attempts) so be it.
Six times over six different occasions is one thing. Six times over the course of one evening is another, in my opinion. The latter is just being a nuisance, and one reason why people (not just astronauts) don't sign anymore. Aldrin signed for a few people at the Moon-Mars Commission in NYC; when I was able to approach him, he said, "I appreciate what you want, but I can't sign anymore." That was fine. I didn't continue asking him or follow him around the room or find out where he was going just to ask him again. Neither did I throw myself in front of Mike Melvill's limo after I saw it but not him after his speech because I wanted his autograph. Sorry to come out so harsh on this - but this is a hot button topic of mine, especially after reading "Ok Dad, You Can Take the Picture," by Blake Levine. (Do an amazon.com search for my review and you'll see why....) And why is it a bad thing for it to be personalized, especially if you're going to keep it? I don't have a preference - I'm used to unpersonalized photos simply because I want to keep the line moving and I know there are other people waiting for their chance at an autograph.
[This message has been edited by Hart Sastrowardoyo (edited July 26, 2004).] |
Bob M
Member Posts: 1744
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
|
posted 07-26-2004 02:41 PM
Hart, I checked your "OK, Dad" review & it's very apt for this thread. I'm afraid that Mr. Kroll got just what he asked for, or deserved, from the infamous autographer Bill Anders. Perhaps his multi-approach would have worked with some astronauts, but not likely with the autograph-sensitive Anders. In the right situation & carefully done, decent autographs are possible from Anders (see Robert Pearlman's Anders in-person example here on cS), but he's the kind of guy that when he says no, he means no. He's ultra sensitive about his autograph being sold & to prevent this, he often applies a signature that is intentionally distorted & (very) atypical. And Gen. Anders won't have to worry about it being sold, as his large personalization & scribbled signature probably lowered the sale value and the Apollo 8 crew litho with only Lovell's & Borman's signatures on it would probably be more valuable. But it should be a good keepsake for Mr. Knoll. Just meeting the complete Apollo 8 crew should have been enough for about anyone. Plus also having the opportunity of seeing & maybe meeting Neil Armstrong as an extra! Bob Mc. |
jamato99
Member Posts: 147
From: Leesburg, VA USA
Registered: Apr 2003
|
posted 07-26-2004 03:18 PM
All I can say is... WOW.Asking the same person for an autograph six times is a lot for a lifetime, let alone a single evening. I'm a pretty blunt person and I'm not afraid to approach anyone to talk and request an autograph or a picture with them. At the same time, however, I realize that some people just aren't comfortable signing, especially if they think their autograph might be sold at a later date. I've never had an autograph request get turned down, so I don't know how it feels. But I'm pretty sure if/when that day comes, I probably would back off after only one try. In my humble opinion, asking more than once (or three, four or five times) is essentially badgering and is just bad taste. If a person says no the first time, we as collectors need to respect that regardless of how disappointed we might be. As was mentioned earlier, it's situations like that which make astronauts and other celebrities grow more and more hesitant about signing. Judging by that photo, it certainly looks like Anders went out of his way to make a point. The personalization (and its location) is very blatant and the signature leaves much to be desired, likely signifying Anders' displeasure at being asked to sign six times by the same person in one night. Just my opinion. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42981
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
|
posted 07-26-2004 03:44 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Bob M:
In the right situation & carefully done, decent autographs are possible from Anders (see Robert Pearlman's Anders in-person example here on cS), but he's the kind of guy that when he says no, he means no.
That particular Anders' autograph can also be used to demonstrate the value of patience. When I asked Anders to sign my book (at the 1999 "Rendezvous in Space" Seattle Museum of Flight gala in honor of Pete Conrad) he declined and rushed out of sight. I could have chased him and asked again, but didn't want the autograph at the expense of annoying him. Not too much later, Anders was the one to seek out me and apologized for rushing off and asked if he could sign something for me. Had I pursued him earlier, both he and I would have been uncomfortable; instead we were able to part ways content with each other.Not that I am saying this will happen for everyone, but its not a unique occurrence either. I had almost the same experience with Jim McDivitt at the Reno Air Races in 2002, where he initially declined to sign and then, near the close of the evening, saw me and offered without my having to ask. Lesson learned: autograph collecting is far more enjoyable and rewarding when both parties are comfortable with each other. |
John K. Rochester
Member Posts: 1292
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Registered: Mar 2002
|
posted 07-26-2004 04:08 PM
Very well stated Robert.. asking half a dozen times is way out of line!! |
thump
Member Posts: 575
From: washington dc usa
Registered: May 2004
|
posted 07-26-2004 05:13 PM
Lucky that at least was a scribble, I've seen people in other fields when annoyed do such things as a big X, or even one time an athlete (who happened to be a friend of mine "personalized" an item with several expletives. Talk about devalueing |
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
|
posted 07-27-2004 02:29 AM
quote:
Originally posted by thump:
Lucky that at least was a scribble, I've seen people in other fields when annoyed do such things as a big X, or even one time an athlete (who happened to be a friend of mine "personalized" an item with several expletives. Talk about devalueing
I don't recall the title off-hand, but there's this science-fiction book that pokes fun at SF cons with every stereotypical con thing happening (e.g., the wedding in Star Trek uniforms.) What you wrote reminds me of this one scene where a "Big Fan" goes up to a Big Name Author with 20 copies of the same book. "What do you want with these?" asks BNA. "You have 20 copies of the same book?" "I figure they'll be worth more when you're dead," is the reply. The BNA has a legendary temper, and the hosts are cringing, but no books go flying. He signs all 20 copies, the Big Fan takes them and scampers away, and comes back five minutes later screaming, "You ruined them!" For the Big Name Author has signed all 20 copies with someone else's name: J. R. R. Tolkein.... |
RichieB16
Member Posts: 552
From: Oregon
Registered: Feb 2003
|
posted 07-27-2004 02:45 AM
Personally, I'd be happy just to meet the Apollo 8 crew-of I got their autographs I'd be even happier (but I wouldn't ask 6 times-I only like to ask once, if its no its no ans thats OK).What I don't understand is if your never going to sell it what does it matter if its personalized. I have never made effort trying to find values for my autographs (I have an idea-but I don't care) but I like the personalized ones better. I have an STS-107 crew signed litho which McCool inscribed to me-and that makes it so much more special. I perfer to have them personalized. |
Madon_space
Member Posts: 667
From: uk
Registered: Sep 2002
|
posted 07-27-2004 05:53 AM
I have to agree with what everyone else has said, i too would never ask more than once for anyones autograph no matter how desperate i wanted it.As for Hart Sastrowardoyo posting then all i can say is that Revenge Is Sweet LOL.
------------------
Best
ROB
http://hometown.aol.com/robc2412/madonspace.html |
mensclub10@aol.com
New Member Posts:
From:
Registered:
|
posted 07-27-2004 12:09 PM
After some thought, I agree that asking him 6 times was being very rude and must have made Mr. Anders very uncomfortable. Like I said earlier, I might have asked him twice. I'm sure that asking twice would be the limit and facing the situation that you may never have the chance to meet him again, many of us would have tried just once more, maybe in a quiet moment with no one around, for this elusive signer. I know that when I met Michael Jordan I asked him to sign our basketball (my kids wer with me) when he was leaving his car with a dozen people also asking him for his autograph. He refused but on the way into the door leading to practice, with no one around, I ask him once more and he was nice enough to sign our basketball with not a hint of distain. |
AKnoll
New Member Posts:
From:
Registered:
|
posted 07-27-2004 02:57 PM
Thank you all for your replies. But the fact of the matter is, Mr. Anders whispered in my ear that I should see him later after asking a couple times for his signature. There for I kept asking him as the night progressed when he finally agreed to sign, he seemed to be very happy. He even pated me on the shoulder and asked me if I wanted to have my picture taken with him. We even had a nice conversation about P-51's and his career. I don't think its a matter of being bothered to sign an autograph, but the fact that people sell them is what really bothers him. He asked me to promise not to sell it after he signed it. If no one sold them, just about everyone would sign freely. To add furthure, I don't sell any of my autographs there for I do not feel any guilt at all.Thank you all again,
Anthony Knoll |
AuthenticItems
Member Posts: 184
From: USA
Registered: Nov 2002
|
posted 07-27-2004 04:01 PM
Anders commented to me that he doesn’t like to sign when there are a lot of people around, and was happy to sign when the situation was right.
|
John K. Rochester
Member Posts: 1292
From: Rochester, NY, USA
Registered: Mar 2002
|
posted 07-27-2004 05:42 PM
None of us were there..but if William Anders told me to see him later when there was not such a crowd, I would have had enough trust to take him at his word and not continue to ask him. However, congrats about the autograph![This message has been edited by John K. Rochester (edited July 27, 2004).] |
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
|
posted 07-28-2004 12:55 AM
quote:
Originally posted by AKnoll:
Thank you all for your replies. But the fact of the matter is, Mr. Anders whispered in my ear that I should see him later after asking a couple times for his signature.
And how many was "a couple of times"? |
advertisement