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Where to see an F-1 from a Saturn V?

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Author	Topic: Where to see an F-1 from a Saturn V?
stsmithva Member Posts: 2041 From: Fairfax, VA Registered: Feb 2007	posted 10-31-2009 02:41 PM A somewhat clueless post of mine on another forum made me realize that I have never seen one of the Saturn V first-stage rocket engines: the F-1. (Apparently they are much, much, much larger than I had pictured in my mind. Much.) I've checked the Field Guide to American Spacecraft and seen that there are Saturn Vs (including a 1:1 model and just the first stage) at Kennedy Space Center, Houston, Huntsville, and New Orleans. Just to check: are there any single F-1s closer than a thousand miles from Virginia?
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 48542 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999	posted 10-31-2009 02:56 PM There is an F-1 on display at the National Air and Space Museum as part of the Apollo To The Moon gallery on the second floor. The display uses a complete engine as well as a quarter of another and mirrors to create the impression that you looking at the aft end of the Saturn V. Credit: Smithsonian There is also an F-1 engine on display at the Udvar-Hazy Center in Chantilly.
stsmithva Member Posts: 2041 From: Fairfax, VA Registered: Feb 2007	posted 10-31-2009 03:56 PM Well that's just embarrassing. I can picture the toothpaste tube on the wall of Apollo-flown items at the National Air and Space Museum, but I don't remember that enormous "F-1 with a mirror" display. As for the one at Udvar-Hazy, they must have just installed it last week. Because I just CAN'T have been that distracted all those times I've walked around the aft end of Enterprise. [Emoticon for confessing further cluelessness.] Thanks Robert, always nice to have something specific to look forward to the next time I visit there.
AlanLawrie Member Posts: 102 From: hitchin, herts, UK Registered: Oct 2003	posted 10-31-2009 04:26 PM Well, now that you've asked the question it gives me an unashamed chance to plug my latest activity - namely locating and identifying all the remaining F-1 and J-2 rocket engines around the world. Not an easy task which is why it has taken 2 years. Anyway with the job now done the results will be seeing the light of day shortly. Stay tuned to collectSPACE and Apogee books.
ColinBurgess Member Posts: 2129 From: Sydney, Australia Registered: Sep 2003	posted 10-31-2009 06:25 PM Alan: I'm assuming you've been told about the F-1 engine on permanent display at the Powerhouse Museum in Sydney?
AlanLawrie Member Posts: 102 From: hitchin, herts, UK Registered: Oct 2003	posted 10-31-2009 06:58 PM Colin, yes indeed. In fact it was only last week that together with the help of the curator at the Powerhouse (who managed to photograph the ident plate on the engine which is suspended from the ceiling) and retirees from Rocketdyne that we managed to identify the engine for the first time. We now have its history which will be recorded in the museum. The engine is actually on loan from the Smithsonian until at least 2017.
ilbasso Member Posts: 1527 From: Greensboro, NC USA Registered: Feb 2006	posted 10-31-2009 09:03 PM Steve, there's also one at the Udvar-Hazy Center, or at least there was last time I was there. It's at the back of the Space Shuttle hangar, to the right of the Enterprise as you walk toward the back of the hangar.
Jurg Bolli Member Posts: 1147 From: Albuquerque, NM Registered: Nov 2000	posted 11-02-2009 09:36 AM Although not within 1000 miles of Virginia, the New Mexico Museum of Space History in Alamogordo has one as well.
E2M Lem Man Member Posts: 846 From: Los Angeles CA. USA Registered: Jan 2005	posted 11-02-2009 12:34 PM For west coasters, there is an F-1 that is at the old Rocketdyne (now Pratt and Whitney) plant on Canoga Ave, north of Victory, in Canoga Park. Standing in its glory of about 17 feet high, it is hard to miss, and since this is one of the construction sites for the F-1, it is a reverent spot. Park in the visitor spots though, as the people inside are building new rocket engines for Delta IVs. That is the only thing to see at that plant - sorry! But there is a museum of sorts, at the Santa Susana plant (similar to ALF) run by the retirees that built the Rocketdyne engines and tested them nearby.
AlanLawrie Member Posts: 102 From: hitchin, herts, UK Registered: Oct 2003	posted 11-02-2009 12:48 PM Both previous posters are correct. The F-1 at Alamogordo is F-6067, originally destined for Apollo 15. The F-1 at P&W Rocketdyne is EM-1 (Engineering model 1) put in place on the 10th anniversary of the first moon landing.
Lunar rock nut Member Posts: 916 From: Oklahoma city, Oklahoma U.S.A. Registered: Feb 2007	posted 11-05-2009 08:15 AM Science Museum of Oklahoma A.K.A. Omniplex of Oklahoma City has an F-1 and a J-2 displayed on the main floor. Thomas Stafford's museum in Weatherford, Oklahoma also has an F-1 on display along with many other engines from Gemini and other programs.
AlanLawrie Member Posts: 102 From: hitchin, herts, UK Registered: Oct 2003	posted 11-05-2009 11:01 AM Right again! Both of these are R&D models. Look closely at the one at the Omniplex and you will see that it doesn't have an injector installed. The one at Stafford was never fired.
mikej Member Posts: 483 From: Germantown, WI USA Registered: Jan 2004	posted 11-05-2009 01:06 PM Since it looks like we've removed the "1000 miles from Virginia" constraint, I can point out a number of stand-alone F-1 displays: Rocket Garden at Kennedy Space Center National Air & Space Museum Air Zoo in Portage, MI (previous displayed at the Michigan Space & Science Center in Jackson, MI) Rocket Park at the US Space & Rocket Center in Huntsville, AL Davidson Center for Space Exploration, at the USSRC in Huntsville In front of Building 4200 at Marshall Space Flight Center in Huntsville Near Building 4205 at MSFC. This is the engine about which Robert wrote an article last year. This engine was recently moved and placed on permanent display at MSFC. Next to the Static Test Tower in the East Test Area at MSFC. In the Rocket Garden at Stennis Space Center in Hancock County, MS In the Rocket Park at Johnson Space Center in Houston, TX Outside the Kansas Cosmosphere, in Hutchinson, KS At Science Museum Oklahoma (previously known as the Omniplex) in Oklahoma City. As Alan mentioned, it is displayed without its injector, so you can see its LOX dome. Stafford Air & Space, in Weatherford, OK Alas, the F-1 was not on display at Udvar-Hazy when I visited two summers ago. Alan made reference to his list of the current locations of the remaining F-1 engines -- sounds like Jim Gerard's not the only one who has a vacation planner!
GACspaceguy Member Posts: 2850 From: Guyton, GA Registered: Jan 2006	posted 11-05-2009 02:34 PM Here are the F-1 and J-2 engines at the Omniplex of Oklahoma City: And the F-1 at the Stafford:
Mr Meek Member Posts: 353 From: Chattanooga, TN Registered: Dec 2007	posted 11-05-2009 03:39 PM Mike, I didn't know that was your site. Nifty. Alan, I know I've told you this via email, but I'll say it publicly: I love your books, and am really looking forward to the F-1 book. I can't count the number of times I've grabbed both Saturn books to look something up before posting here.
Paul78zephyr Member Posts: 762 From: Hudson, MA Registered: Jul 2005	posted 03-28-2013 02:02 PM How many basically flight worthy - but unflown - F-1 engines are still in existence and where are they? Editor's note: Threads merged. EDIT: Okay, this thread answers much of that question. Thank you. New question: 65 F-1 engines flew on 13 Saturn Vs but does anyone know how many flight rated F-1 engines in total were originally manufactured by Rocketdyne? I assume each engine had a serial number (like SSMEs). Does anyone have a SN list of all the flight rated F-1 engines. I did read Anthony Young's F-1 very good book many years ago but I don't recall the book having that information but I could be mistaken as my memory fails.
Robert Pearlman Editor Posts: 48542 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999	posted 03-28-2013 02:04 PM quote: Originally posted by Robert Pearlman: There is also an F-1 engine on display at the Udvar-Hazy Center in Chantilly. To keep this topic current, the F-1 engine that was previously on display at the Udvar-Hazy Center is now at Marshall Space Flight Center, supporting new engine development efforts.
mikej Member Posts: 483 From: Germantown, WI USA Registered: Jan 2004	posted 03-28-2013 06:04 PM quote: Originally posted by Paul78zephyr: 65 F-1 engines flew on 13 Saturn Vs but does anyone know how many flight rated F-1 engines in total were originally manufactured by Rocketdyne? It depends on what you mean by "flight rated." There were 98 production F-1 engines manufactured, although many of the early engines were used for ground testing; of the first 16 production engines, only 6 were earmarked for flight (the five on SA-501, plus a spare). I don't know if you want to equate "production" engines to "flight rated." There were additionally a good number of R&D engines, general engine mockups, and engineering mockups manufactured. R&D engines were used throughout the program to test proposed changes (and some to test changes proposed for the F-1A). Anthony Young's book doesn't have a comprehensive list of serial numbers. I have a memo on my website which has a list of all of the production serial numbers (the memo discusses configuration changes introduced at various points in the program). My site also has photos of 34 1/4 of the 37 1/4 remaining F-1 engines; refer to the lists of Saturn Vs, S-IC stages, and stand-alone F-1 engines. (No, I haven't seen the F-1 engine parts recently raised from the ocean depths, but I'm working that!) The only comprehensive list of F-1 engines, their serial numbers, their allocation, and their current disposition of which I'm aware is Alan Lawrie's Saturn. In the interests of full disclosure, I should mention that I assisted him with the second edition of the book, contributing the current location and photos of many F-1s. However, other than an autographed copy of the book, I receive no monetary benefits from the sale of the book.
Stafford Air&Space Member Posts: 21 From: Weatherford, OK USA Registered: Mar 2013	posted 03-29-2013 04:35 PM We would like to share a couple of current photos of our F-1 and J-2 engines on display.
AlanLawrie Member Posts: 102 From: hitchin, herts, UK Registered: Oct 2003	posted 03-29-2013 06:43 PM As Mike mentioned, my Saturn book lists all the F-1 serial numbers and the locations and useage. I also had a two-part article published recently in Spaceflight magazine on the whereabouts of all the Earthbound F-1s.
Stafford Air&Space Member Posts: 21 From: Weatherford, OK USA Registered: Mar 2013	posted 06-17-2022 11:53 AM The Stafford Air & Space Museum has built its most recent gallery around the F-1 engine, calling it "Powering the Race to the Moon."" This gallery features an actual F-1 engine (7 times test-fired), an actual J-2 engine, the actual Apollo 11 F-1 engine turbine wheel, an actual Soviet NK-33 engine, an actual H-1 engine, and so much more. We are the only museum in the world to house an American engine and an Soviet engine under one roof!