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Author
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Topic: Photo of the week 212 (November 22, 2008)
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heng44
Member Posts: 3387
From: Netherlands
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 11-22-2008 03:09 AM
   
 One of the great photos that can be found in the archives of LIFE magazine: the Mercury Seven astronauts wait for Ralph Morse to take their famous group portrait. Apparently this was the only time that they were all seen in spacesuit together. Ed Hengeveld |
Philip
Member Posts: 5952
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 11-22-2008 03:12 AM
Here again look at their boots, the difference Air Force - Navy is apparent  |
Aztecdoug
Member Posts: 1405
From: Huntington Beach
Registered: Feb 2000
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posted 11-22-2008 03:13 AM
Wow, what a shot.------------------
Kind Regards Douglas Henry Enjoy yourself and have fun.... it is only a hobby!
http://home.earthlink.net/~aztecdoug/ |
cspg
Member Posts: 6210
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006
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posted 11-22-2008 03:36 AM
Spacesuits?  yeah, time flies! Chris. |
ejectr
Member Posts: 1751
From: Killingly, CT
Registered: Mar 2002
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posted 11-22-2008 05:39 AM
The "Right Stuff" personified. |
Fra Mauro
Member Posts: 1587
From: Bethpage, N.Y.
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 11-22-2008 09:10 AM
Doesn't Wally looked thrilled to be there? |
MCroft04
Member Posts: 1634
From: Smithfield, Me, USA
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 11-22-2008 10:56 AM
Ed Buckbee said at the San Antonio UACC show in 2006 that Wally was wearing the only "working order" suit. He stated that the others were "failures". |
Lou Chinal
Member Posts: 1306
From: Staten Island, NY
Registered: Jun 2007
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posted 11-22-2008 03:37 PM
The photo was taken Thursday March 17, 1960-Lou |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 11-22-2008 06:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Fra Mauro:
Doesn't Wally looked thrilled to be there?
Not so much. But Al Shepard certainly seems happy. Maybe he already knew who was getting that first flight. |
Mike Z
Member Posts: 451
From: Ellicott City, Maryland
Registered: Dec 2005
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posted 11-22-2008 08:10 PM
Wow!! That is a FANTASTIC photo!!! It looks af if they are just standing there waiting to do their famous photo shoot for a long time thinking, "Lets get this done already!"Mike Z |
MoonCrater1
Member Posts: 85
From: Queens, NY, USA
Registered: Nov 2008
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posted 11-23-2008 08:34 AM
I have found that some space collectors cannot name the original Mercury 7 without recalling the reminder - SSS CC GG. The catch in this photo is - can you name the Mercury 7 in order in this photo in their spacesuits? |
astro-nut
Member Posts: 946
From: Washington, IL
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 11-23-2008 10:08 AM
Outstanding photo!! Thank you Ed. |
uk spacefan
Member Posts: 168
From: London
Registered: Jan 2007
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posted 11-23-2008 10:46 AM
quote:
Originally posted by MoonCrater1:
can you name the Mercury 7 in order in this photo in their spacesuits?
Ok I'll try, but I'm not sure on a couple of them... left to right: Shepard, Carpenter, Cooper, Slayton, Grissom, Glenn, Schirra. |
MoonCrater1
Member Posts: 85
From: Queens, NY, USA
Registered: Nov 2008
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posted 11-23-2008 10:51 AM
I believe that you are correct. This is the first time that I have ever seen this 1960 photo. |
Richard Glueck
Member Posts: 15
From: Winterport, Maine, USA
Registered: Sep 2007
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posted 11-23-2008 08:41 PM
It appears the suits are inflated, as well. I guess they roast inside them if the blowers were not attached. |
GerryM
Member Posts: 244
From: Glenside PA
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 11-23-2008 11:41 PM
I noticed the unique Mercury Astronaut photo on the Photo of the Week thread. While this is a great photo, I could not get past the thought that this is LIFE photo and is copyrighted. The photo as shown on the cS thread has had the LIFE watermark removed. The LIFE site clearly has a water mark on each photo as well as a copyright mention by Time, Inc. Is it proper to use this photo in this manner?Gerry Montague |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 11-24-2008 12:39 AM
Looking through the Life Archives, there is another neat photo that shows the astronauts suiting up for this photo shoot. I thought it was worth sharing... |
heng44
Member Posts: 3387
From: Netherlands
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 11-24-2008 12:42 AM
Gerry, I have credited the photo to LIFE, haven't I?Besides, especially in the old days there was hardly a distinction between LIFE and NASA photos. Many iconic NASA photos were taken by LIFE photographers, or National Geographic photographers for that matter. Apparently they waived their copyright, because these photos are available from NASA without restrictions. Also, LIFE has on their site a number of onboard NASA-photos, taken by the astronauts, but with a LIFE watermark. These photos clearly are not copyright restricted, so if I am doing something wrong here, so is LIFE... Ed |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-24-2008 12:56 AM
If this photo is available via NASA, then it is public domain. If this photo was scanned or otherwise obtained from LIFE, then it is the copyright of LIFE (Time, Inc.).If the latter, it would have been a good idea to seek the permission of LIFE before publishing it. Fair use does allow for the reproduction of copyrighted material (without permission) for the purpose of review, which could describe the the purpose of this thread. I have added a link from Ed's original post to the page in the LIFE archive where the original appears. Moving forward, images that appear as part of LIFE's archive, unless clearly NASA photographs (and then obtained through NASA's own archives) should probably not be used as part of the Photo of the Week features. |
spacecraft films
Member Posts: 802
From: Columbus, OH USA
Registered: Jun 2002
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posted 11-24-2008 08:39 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
If this photo is available via NASA, then it is public domain.
Robert, Are you 100% sure about this? The reason I wonder is that usually it is up to the user to determine if something is in the public domain, and just because one gets it from NASA doesn't mean it is cleared of copyright - at least if it works the same way as the National Archives. If I get something from the National Archives, I am responsible for making sure it is public domain material. Some of it is not. Sometimes there is a notation in the archives entry that it is copyrighted, but nearly all the entries are "unknown," or "restricted-possibly." It is up to me to determine if there is a copyright. I am speaking of motion picture and television assets here, but I would think photography has the same structure. My point is that even if it is being distributed by NASA (or any other governmental agency) may not mean that it is in the public domain. Obviously NASA photography is domain, but I wonder about clarification on how ownership under the LIFE deal worked. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-24-2008 08:44 AM
quote:
Originally posted by spacecraft films:
Obviously NASA photography is domain...
I should have been more clear, as NASA photography is what I intended to convey. It is true that NASA sometimes uses copyrighted material (in fact, they recently used collectSPACE copyrighted material) and that does not by default enter the imagery into the public domain. That LIFE may have given NASA permission to use photos from its archive does not necessarily mean that the photos belong to the space agency or are not still copyright protected by LIFE (Time, Inc.). Thank you Mark, for clarifying that point, as it is an important one to understand. |
heng44
Member Posts: 3387
From: Netherlands
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 11-24-2008 09:57 AM
I have many NASA photos that I am positive were taken by Ralph Morse, for example, but the caption doesn't mention who the photographer was and the photos only bear the standard NASA wording "No copyright is asserted for this photograph etc.". In my view that means I can freely use it, provided I don't use it "to state or imply the endorsement by NASA or by any NASA employee of a commercial product, service, or activity, or used in any manner that might mislead". Otherwise NASA should state more claerly what the user can or can not do.It is interesting, however, that the same NASA guidelines I am quoting above state specifically: "It is unlawful to falsely claim copyright or other rights in NASA material". That is exactly what LIFE is doing with the onboard photos taken on the moon, for example. No doubt LIFE and NASA have a special relationship, so it probably is not as black and white as I wrote here... Ed |
spacecraft films
Member Posts: 802
From: Columbus, OH USA
Registered: Jun 2002
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posted 11-24-2008 10:05 AM
quote:
Originally posted by heng44:
That is exactly what LIFE is doing with the onboard photos taken on the moon, for example.
Watermarking a photo with the LIFE logo is not expressing copyright ownership in the photo. Asserting ownership would have to be done explicitly through the © symbol or through wording (often (c) is used in place of the symbol). And this would simply be an effort to protect your work. I am not an intellectual property attorney, but (and I am going from memory here), back when I first went through all of this (when starting Spacecraft Films) it is not the © symbol or watermarking or anything else that makes it copyrighted... it is the mere fact that it was created by someone and is theirs. That is why it is normally the duty of the user to ascertain the ownership. As an example: even if it was devoid of any copyright notice on it, I could not use one of your paintings on one of my DVD covers. You own the copyright on it, and if I saw it and wanted to use it, the responsibility for making sure it was clear (or coming to an agreement with the owner) would fall to me. Photos marked as you describe would certainly mitigate any attempt at asserting ownership over it. Either way as Robert points out this would certainly be considered fair use. |
GerryM
Member Posts: 244
From: Glenside PA
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 11-24-2008 10:29 AM
Whoa... did not mean to start any war here. I was just expressing some concern on whether or not there could be a copyright issue that might result in some unplanned trouble. It looks like everyone has some good points, and Ed is probably correct regarding many of the NASA photos being taken by LIFE and NG photographers. I had just been under the impression that this release of images had indicated LIFE was holding back on some material that they were possibly claiming sole ownership on. Just don't want to see anyone get in trouble. |
heng44
Member Posts: 3387
From: Netherlands
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 11-24-2008 11:30 AM
Gerry, no problem. It is a valid point you raised. I just wanted to explain that I didn't think I was doing anything wrong here.Ed |
albatron
Member Posts: 2732
From: Stuart, Florida
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted 11-24-2008 09:05 PM
I think the lack of the watermark issue is being missed here. Just out of curiousity Ed, did you remove it when you posted the photo? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-24-2008 09:11 PM
If you follow the link to the original, you'll see that a non-watermarked version is displayed on Google's site. Only the full screen version is marked with LIFE's logo. |
Flyboy7077
New Member Posts: 8
From: Fremont, CA
Registered: Jul 2008
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posted 11-24-2008 11:19 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Philip:
Here again look at their boots, the difference Air Force - Navy is apparent
Granted the boots are not uniform in nature, but they are not broken down by service lines. Thew two sets of brown boots are worn by Shepard (USN) and Grissom (USAF). The three sets of silver boots are on Carpenter (USN), Cooper (USAF), and Schirra (USN). Finally, the two pair of white boots are on Slayton (USAF) and Glenn (USMC). Steve |
heng44
Member Posts: 3387
From: Netherlands
Registered: Nov 2001
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posted 11-25-2008 12:02 AM
quote:
Originally posted by albatron:
I think the lack of the watermark issue is being missed here. Just out of curiousity Ed, did you remove it when you posted the photo?
While I was sound asleep, Robert answered the question. For the 'Photo of the week' I can use fairly lo-res photos, such as the one without the watermark. Ed |
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