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Author
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Topic: Ares I-X: flight viewing, questions, comments
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Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 50516
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-28-2009 10:12 PM
   
quote:
Originally posted by dtemple:
If the coating was sufficient for the space shuttle SRBs then why was it a concern for the shuttle-derived Ares I SRB? Was a new coating being used?
The concern was related to the upper stage and frustrum, rather than the solid rocket booster first stage. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 50516
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-28-2009 10:22 PM
quote:
Originally posted by dom:
Was nothing learnt?
To the contrary: much has been learned over the past quarter century regarding the reliability of the solid rocket motor, which has led respected individuals such as Gen. Lester Lyles to endorse Ares I. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 50516
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-28-2009 10:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by mercsim:
Has anyone found any photos of it under parachute? Were they using the new ones? If so, you would thing they would have planned some extra recovery photography.
Additional photography was planned, and will be forthcoming, though it may take a few days to be released. Some of the imagery is on-board the vehicle itself, awaiting its retrieval once back on land. Though the downlinked video was interrupted as the rocket's antenna rolled out of contact, the onboard recorders should have the complete footage of parachute deployment from two upward facing cameras on the first stage, as well as an interior high-speed camera positioned specifically to film the parachute release. And yes, all three parachutes were of a new design to accommodate the additional weight of the five-segment solid rocket booster. They differ in appearance from the shuttle main parachutes as they are red and blue. |
GACspaceguy
Member Posts: 2954
From: Guyton, GA
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 10-28-2009 11:01 PM
Here is our photo from the Visitor Center, it was a wonderful launch. I hope to never here the word triboelectrification again! |
mercsim
Member Posts: 248
From: Phoenix, AZ
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 10-28-2009 11:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
Stage separation was one of the objectives of this test flight, and yes, they did have separation motors...
Thanks for the great responses! After carefully watching the video, I can see the sep motors fire on the aft end. I'm sure the engineers are all excited about the data. I look forward to learning more about it. |
Philip
Member Posts: 6217
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 10-29-2009 04:11 AM
Curious to see photos with deployed parachutes. Onboard cam showed only one chute at a certain moment?  |
Rob Joyner
Member Posts: 1308
From: GA, USA
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted 10-29-2009 01:48 PM
I watched the launch from Space View Park along the Indian River in north Titusville and was not disappointed! Yesterday morning turned out to be not as hazy as it was on Tuesday which afforded everyone there a better view. One consolation of Tuesday's scrub was that afterward I was able to get a few photos of Ares on Pad B from the Apollo/Saturn V Center.
It was a long and warm morning, just as Tuesday was, and not having the luxury of NASA loudspeakers as at the causeway made the waiting a bit more exciting. Many spectators were on their mobile devices checking the many launch time updates almost constantly. As I overheard their discussions I checked in with the press site to verify the launch time status. There were actually more people at the park on Tuesday than yesterday, I suppose due to scheduling conflicts brought on by Tuesday's scrub. While waiting for the launch I thought about being among the thousands of people who were there in the same spot 11 years ago today to see John Glenn's return to space aboard STS-95. It's hard to believe it's been that long ago already.
Finally, at almost 11:30am, the announcement of "less than two minutes to go" was heard among our small crowd. Though the horizon was still a bit hazy at launch Ares flew into a bright blue sky within a matter of seconds traveling through a few clouds on her maiden flight. The oohs & aahs from my fellow spectators could be heard along with the occasional "Go Ares!" as the rocket silently ascended. The sound could first be heard almost exactly a minute after lift-off and grew to peak volume at T+1:25 minutes. Being about twelve miles away I was amazed at how loud it was considering only one solid rocket booster was used unlike the two used during space shuttle launches. It was actually louder than some of the shuttle launches I've seen from the causeway at six miles away.
As I packed up my camera and tripod I wondered how many people had seen the very first unmanned Saturn V rocket launch back in November of 1967 in person, perhaps even from where I was standing, and wondered if astronauts would really one day walk on the Moon. With the government's constant cutting of NASA's budget who knows when Ares will actually fly with astronauts on board. But I find it hard to believe that we as curious humans could let such dreams just fall by the wayside and be forgotten. Though it may take longer than expected I do believe we will again one day leave new footprints on the Moon. I just hope it will not be too much later as I hope that on that day when the next rocket launches astronauts back to the Moon, and though I may be just an old gray haired man then, I can turn to a young whippersnapper filled with awe and ask him if he'd like to hear about something special that happened back in October of 2009. 
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jdcupp
Member Posts: 49
From: Ardmore, TN
Registered: Jul 2009
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posted 10-29-2009 01:57 PM
Did anyone else notice the brief period of forward facing video after the launch? Is this the first time we've had live forward facing external video of a flight? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 50516
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-29-2009 07:31 PM
quote:
Originally posted by jdcupp:
Is this the first time we've had live forward facing external video of a flight?
Space shuttle solid rocket boosters have had aft mounted upward facing camera views for several years. |
Jay Chladek
Member Posts: 2272
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 10-30-2009 01:27 AM
I just got back from my extended research trip/vacation to Houston and Florida (book research). In the next couple days I'll upload my own photos of the event as I managed to get some good shots of the bird. I had some minor concerns about Ares, but after seeing footage of the successful DM-1 firing of the five segment SRM and Ares I-X launch up close and in person, I feel it is the best way to go now since we know the thing CAN fly if it is given a chance to do so as a mature system. Now it just needs some better financial backing.The beastie was certainly odd to watch compared to a shuttle and indeed it was LOUD. But it seemed to perform as advertised and it looked very nice on ascent. I echo Bob Cabana's comments about it. One thing the Constellation program has to their credit now is a tangible success, something that can be pointed to. That is one thing Direct can not say that it has and although that design has merit, to me there are still too many unknowns with it while Ares I by comparison has undergone several design passes to this point. To do an about face now in favor of a different system is IMHO a bad idea since the result certainly won't get us back into space any faster, despite what the sales people of those other projects might have you believe. Some readers may disagree and certainly they are entitled to their opinions. But I concur about the reliability of the solids as once the RSMs were re-designed after Challenger to overcome the joint rotation problem and O-ring blow-by issues, they became a much better system. Pick up a copy of McDonald and Hansen's book "Truth, Lies and O-Rings" and you'll get a full blow by blow account of Thiokol's (now ATK) development of the shuttle SRM, especially the redesign after 51L. |
cspg
Member Posts: 6347
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006
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posted 10-30-2009 09:40 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Jay Chladek:
The beastie was certainly odd to watch compared to a shuttle and indeed it was LOUD. But it seemed to perform as advertised and it looked very nice on ascent.
Except for the second stage... not exactly the same outcome as the one advertised in the computer simulation video - see the youtube video of what should have happened. quote:
Originally posted by Jay Chladek:
I echo Bob Cabana's comments about it. One thing the Constellation program has to their credit now is a tangible success, something that can be pointed to. That is one thing Direct can not say that it has...
Well, there was no competition between the two. One got funded, not the other, so I'm not sure it's fair to compare the two. quote:
Originally posted by Jay Chladek:
and although that design has merit, to me there are still too many unknowns with it while Ares I by comparison has undergone several design passes to this point. To do an about face now in favor of a different system is IMHO a bad idea since the result certainly won't get us back into space any faster, despite what the sales people of those other projects might have you believe.
With the notable exception that the vehicle that "flew" on Wednesday shouldn't be called Ares I or Ares I-X. Ares 0 would be more appropriate. When (and if) Ares I flies with a 5-segment motor and live upper stage, maybe then we can start calling it a success (with an Orion capsule on top and providing everything goes smoothly).And for the sake of discussion, developing a new manned launch vehicle alone will only result in what was said about the shuttle: a space truck with nowhere to go. You'll have to give Ares (and more specifically Orion) a destination. Ares I-X was more of a PR stunt than anything else (if another test flight was planned within a year, I wouldn't say that). We're not out of the woods, yet. |
ilbasso
Member Posts: 1527
From: Greensboro, NC USA
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 10-30-2009 10:01 AM
Just to add one comment on the 'throttle-ability' of solids vs liquid fueled rockets: they can build different thrusts into the SRBs, by varying the composition of the propellant as they layer it into the motor. For example, if they need to reduce thrust near Max-Q, the SRB propellant can be manufactured and structured such that after the motor has been burning for x seconds, the effective thrust is reduced at the time around Max-Q. True, you can't turn them off once they're lit, but you can vary the performance profile. |
LCDR Scott Schneeweis
New Member Posts:
From:
Registered:
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posted 10-30-2009 10:40 AM
With the added disadvantage that propellant casting must be done well in advance of any flight so that (unlike a liquid or hybrid propellant based launch vehicle) there is very little flexibility in modifying flight performance if there is a requirement to adjust launch parameters and payload mass. |
Jay Chladek
Member Posts: 2272
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 10-30-2009 10:58 AM
quote:
Originally posted by cspg:
Except for the second stage... not exactly the same outcome as the one advertised in the computer simulation video - see the youtube video of what should have happened.
And that is why you test fly. Indeed there were a couple anomalies. But considering getting data on the stacked vehicle's performance, the roll control system and the recovery chutes, the second stage tumbling as opposed to going straight ballistic is a relatively minor thing. But admittedly it is something that will need to be looked at before the next try (Ares I-Y) to see if a vehicle with a live upper stage would encounter similar problems. Now that they have flown Ares I-X, they know a little about what to expect. quote:
Ares I-X was more of a PR stunt than anything else (if another test flight was planned within a year, I wouldn't say that). We're not out of the woods, yet.
Rather expensive for a publicity stunt and it took MANY years worth of doing this on a relatively shoe string budget to get to this level. More money and they could fly sooner. Sorry, a publicity stunt would be Balloon Boy, not Ares I-X. The recent moon impact test got milked more by NASA. If anything, I would liken this to testing out the first Saturn 1 block 1 rockets in the late 1950s where all you had was the first stage and ballast top side. All up testing on Saturn V and Space Shuttle with STS-1 I think has spoiled us somewhat when other programs tended to go in smaller steps. The Constellation team got a lot of good data from this flight. Some of that data matched the predictions, some did not. THAT is why you do flight testing. |
mercsim
Member Posts: 248
From: Phoenix, AZ
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 10-30-2009 12:46 PM
Well said Jay. Most people have no idea what goes into flight testing. Modern military aircraft spend years in flight testing conducting hundreds of flights.There are many smart people, especially on this discussion board, that do well discussing engineering topics. That said, it cracks me up when some non-engineers try to talk about engineering. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 50516
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-30-2009 04:53 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
And while it did visually appear that there was contact between the stages of some type, it is not yet known if that was the case.
As was confirmed today by Ares I-X mission manager Bob Ess, there was no stage re-contact after separation. |
GACspaceguy
Member Posts: 2954
From: Guyton, GA
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 10-31-2009 12:20 PM
Thought I would give you all a little info from our experience from watching the launch from the KSC Visitor Center (VC). The Tuesday for the launch attempt had us arrive at 5:30 AM. We asked the folks that worked there what time they arrived and they said 1AM! The VC was open and fully staffed as it would be for a Shuttle launch. We killed some time by doing the Shuttle Experience and listening to the updates. They did not have the big “jumbotron” screen in the area by the rocket park but they did have the theater #2 of the IMAX open with the live feed as well as the Astronaut Encounter and the Launch Briefing room. We were told that about 200 visitors were there so there was not much of a crowd at all. As the morning wore on and the launch kept slipping and the time went on to about 9:30-10AM we could tell that they had opened the road as there were a number people coming into the VC. As you know the launch scrubbed but the day was not a wash because they are doing a new thing at the VC. The visiting astronaut does a signing between 4:45 and 5:30PM at the Space Shop. As we are annual pass holders we went back at that time and got 3 items signed by Jerry Carr. It was great! We did notice people were going to the information desk and asking for a placard for the next day’s attempt, it looked to us that they were just there for the asking. I guess they figure if they let people come back in they could at least sell coffee and Tee shirts.The next day was the same as the first on the arrival but it turns out the staff was not there until 4AM that day. A number of areas were closed including the Launch Experience. I can understand why as it looked like they may have been 50 people tops there in the wee hours of the morning. As they did they day before once the opening time for the VC was upon them the people started to come in for a regular visit, all be it without any bus tours (they began one hour after the scrub on Tuesday and the same for launch day but did not go to the Gantry viewing area). At launch time the VC was pretty full and those folks that came for the tour received a double blessing that day with the fantastic launch of the Ares1-X. An added bonus that day was that the astronaut for the day was Al Worden. We went back to our room down loaded some photos off of the web and went to Walmart. One hour later we had four pictures for signing which Col Worden happily signed, he is a great guy. It was a wonderful day (and see I never even mentioned triboelectrification, until now).
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Jay Chladek
Member Posts: 2272
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 10-31-2009 11:23 PM
Okay, here are some images of Ares 1-X taken by me. Since I am conducting book research for my Outward Odyssey title, I was able to obtain some press credentials for this particular launch. Indeed even if I hadn't been able to obtain them, I would have been in the area anyway as I wouldn't have missed this for the world. 
On Monday night, photographers were able to take pictures of the Ares 1-X during sunset and when they kicked on the Xenon flood lights. It was a very picturesque sunset and we were all treated to some spectacular views of the rocket (and some bites from the local mosquito population). No allegators were observed, but I did spy a small snake crossing the access road behind the pad (where the first image was taken).  
These two images show Ares 1-X at initial movement off the pad and during the first part of its ascent. The beastie was LOUD. One bit that surprised me is how obvious the thing was leaning when it came off the pad. The was a pre-planned maneuever to help avoid the pad's service tower. But for a tall and skinny rocket like the Ares 1-X, even a slight lean looks worse then it really is. |
Philip
Member Posts: 6217
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jan 2001
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posted 11-03-2009 11:14 AM
As I noticed before, just one good chute. Are the current SRB parachutes re-used? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 50516
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-03-2009 11:47 AM
Yes, they are (PDF): Keeping the nine parachute flight sets in good working condition is not easy. That is the task of the Parachute Refurbishment Facility (PRF). There the parachutes are cleaned, repaired and repacked by a team of 25 United Space Alliance employees. They play an essential role in the recovery and recycling of the 150-foot SRBs, which help place the Orbiter into space. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 50516
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-13-2009 05:45 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Philip:
Curious to see photos with deployed parachutes.
Just posted to the Journal, Ares I-X on-board high speed main parachute footage. |
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