posted 01-15-2023 10:22 AM               

In the book "First Man" by James R. Hansen it was stated that Deke Slayton gave Neil Armstrong the option of replacing Buzz Aldrin with Jim Lovell. This offer was made while Apollo 8 was in flight. If Neil Armstrong had accepted this offer, the Apollo 11 crew would have been Armstrong, Lovell, and Collins.

posted 01-15-2023 01:45 PM               

It brings up another question. In that scenario, who would've been the backup crew? The only option I see as commander is Borman, but he had already indicated that he had no desire to fly again (even though I think he would've accepted the commander's position which meant he'd become the first man on the moon). I don't see Borman accepting the backup slot unless Slayton begged him to, with the understanding he'd retire after the mission. Borman has stated that after Apollo 8, he had no desire to go back to the moon "just to bring back some rocks and soil." I suppose it's possible that McDivitt could've jumped into training as Armstrong's backup after flying Apollo 9, but he wasn't enthusiastic about flying again either.

Armstrong, Lovell and Collins backed up by Borman, Aldrin and Anders or McDivitt, Aldrin and Anders? I think Anders would've accepted an LMP slot because that would've meant he'd likely go on to land on the moon. He expressed no desire to fly to the moon again as CMP and not land, which is why he left after Apollo 11.

posted 01-15-2023 02:18 PM            

1. Slayton moves Apollo 12 backups one mission ahead (GT-9A experience with Lovell-Aldrin comes to mind) and forms another backup crew for Apollo 12, or

2. Cooper or McDivitt or Shepard as backup commander, with Aldrin (a good question here - is he a good fit for McDivitt or Shepard?) and Anders. If Aldrin does not fit, then Anders is CMP, Haise or Mitchell as LMP.

posted 01-16-2023 02:38 AM            

In reality, Slayton did recycle the Apollo 8 crew (minus Borman, plus Haise), but to back up Apollo 11.

From McDivitt's oral history interview and Slayton and Cassutt's "Deke" it's also understood that McDivitt did not mind to fly (again) an early landing mission, but wanted his old Apollo 9 crew. This may give another potential Apollo 11 backup crew as at least McDivitt-Scott combination.

posted 01-17-2023 09:52 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by ashot:
Would that lack of ~in-flight~ experience prevent him from getting assigned as CMP to an early Apollo mission?

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posted 01-17-2023 11:33 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Delta7:
He'd still have entered Apollo as a spaceflight veteran...

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Young, Lovell, White, and I suspect, See, too, did not seem to be in the top part of Slayton's potential commanders list (not that they were not good — it's just he thought others had an edge on some qualities that were considered critical for a command). As he had qualified people to staff only about six full Apollo crews, Slayton's priority list of early Apollo commanders was around Grissom, Schirra, McDivitt, Borman, and later Stafford, Conrad and Armstrong. That gives you six commanders -- all what was needed at that stage. But there were also other seats to be filled in (with CMPs required to be almost as qualified as commanders) that went to the rest of Group 2 plus qualified ones of Group 3.

Also, as a sort of compensation for the "demotion" both Young and Lovell got unique chances to fly Moon missions twice. Slayton was fair with them.

posted 01-23-2023 10:55 AM            

Unless Slayton were to have a substantial change of heart about John Young in comparison to Stafford (flying Gemini 10 WOULD give him an earlier shot to be slotted for Apollo) he is just the most likely choice to end up backing up Apollo 7, 8 or 9. I think Slayton always ranked Stafford above Young. Stafford was his original choice for Gemini 3 — his move to 6 was less a demotion but more of a crew compatibility thing, and also after reflecting on rendezvous as one of Stafford's strengths.

You may not even see Stafford in a CMP role if See and Bassett lived. The 205 backup crew was originally Borman, Bassett and Anders. Bassett's death lead to Stafford and Collins coming on as the 205 back-ups since Stafford was available earlier for Apollo, and Bill Anders became a backup for Gemini 11 which kept him away from Apollo when the 205 crew would be in training.

posted 01-24-2023 09:52 AM            

204: Grissom, White, Chaffee / Schirra, Eisele, Cunningham

new 205 (aka 258): McDivitt, Scott, Schweickart / Stafford, Young, Cernan

503: Borman, Collins, Anders / Conrad, Gordon, Williams

A good question is: who is then on 504 (likely a F mission)? A new crew (likely Armstrong + co) or it's Stafford's getting rotated to 504 with Armstrong + co as their backup? (I personally find the latter scenario more logical, but this is my personal opinion.) In this scenario, Stafford likely ends up on either 504 or 505.

And, yes, with Bassett and See the picture becomes much more complicated. One good question is whether See is kept in Apollo (and likely becomes a CMP - maybe in Armstrong's crew) or he is sent to AAP?

Also, what Lovell is to now (without flying a docking mission) - CMP or LMP? Once he was Conrad's crewmate in early version of Gemini crews, so why not Conrad-Gordon-Lovell, for example?

posted 01-24-2023 12:48 PM               

You remove the deaths of See and Bassett from the equation and all bets are off. Too hard to speculate on what crews get formed. I don't see Slayton putting See in a position to command a lunar module. CMP maybe, but I'm thinking more along the lines of AAP, at least in his thinking at the time.