Remember who is doing space. People are. As we address extreme weather and pandemic disease, we will understand and overcome racism and bigotry so we can safely and together do space.
Today, during some pre-telecon small talk, I heard a joke belittling those protesting for justice. I sat gape-mouthed, stunned, instead of speaking up. I feel ashamed. Silent complicity is dangerous. Insidious bias grows without opposition. Open the conversation.
This #TimeLapseTuesday the sparkling cradle of civilization reminds me of our common human origin. I'm encouraged to see that the Supreme Court of the United States voted this week to uphold equality among us. Let's keep listening to and learning from all voices around us.
I don't believe that this has ever happened before. So is this a new change of protocol for the U.S. space programme's finest?
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 44427 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-17-2020 12:39 PM
Axios wrote about this topic and asked me to comment in response to a question similar to yours. Here is what I replied:
As civil servants, active members of NASA's astronaut corps have generally had to be careful about voicing their opinions about societal events to avoid giving the impression they are speaking out on behalf of the space agency or entering into politics. But astronauts are members of society, too, and so it is understandable, if not also to be expected that they have not been silent when it comes to causes that they believe in.
For example, we have seen astronauts use their voices to support the environmental movement, citing in part their own unique perspectives after having seen the effects on our planet from high above. We have also heard from astronauts expressing their support for increased STEM education and for those affected both by natural and human-caused tragedies.
The advent of social media has provided astronauts — along with the rest of the public — with a platform to more easily and more visibly share their opinions. While they still need to avoid becoming overtly political (as laws govern what civil servants can legally say and do), we have seen some astronauts take to their online channels to become more vocal in the issues of the day.
issman1 Member
Posts: 1065 From: UK Registered: Apr 2005
posted 06-17-2020 01:15 PM
Personally, I feel they should refrain from engaging in emotive discourse. This must equally apply to active astronauts and cosmonauts of other countries space agencies.
It's wholly acceptable to do so once they are retired.
p51 Member
Posts: 1676 From: Olympia, WA Registered: Sep 2011
posted 06-17-2020 01:32 PM
I would imagine any such comments are carefully scrutinized by NASA PR, because no astronaut wants to be known as someone posting inappropriate or non-politically-correct stuff. That could have the potential of jeopardizing their place in line for the next mission...
issman1 Member
Posts: 1065 From: UK Registered: Apr 2005
posted 06-17-2020 02:01 PM
Indeed. So if these tweets were vetted by NASA then it endorses them.
Of the three, the most eyebrow raising was Cardman's who divulged something said behind closed doors.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 44427 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-17-2020 02:53 PM
I do not believe NASA public affairs is pre-screening the astronauts' tweets.
If you look at Victor Glover's feed, he isn't just broadcasting his opinion; he is engaging in conversations, even those critical of his viewpoint.
That said, Glover also shared that some of his fellow NASA employees are engaging in similar discussions with their managers' approval:
...employees at my workplace are hosting a maxed out virtual town-hall on current events and justice. It's so enlightening and encouraging. THANK YOU to those that made it happen, to those that were vulnerable, and to the supervisors for supporting your workforce.
Were Glover or another astronaut to write something that ran afoul of NASA's guidelines or the laws governing civil servants, PAO or NASA's General Counsel would then probably intervene, as appropriate.
quote:Originally posted by issman1: So if these tweets were vetted by NASA then it endorses them.
No, that is not what it means. Even if NASA were to pre-screen the tweets, it would only mean that the content does not violate NASA's policies and federal law.
issman1 Member
Posts: 1065 From: UK Registered: Apr 2005
posted 06-17-2020 03:05 PM
Which begs the question: will Glover be allowed to lecture, moralise or pontificate from the ISS as he has done on Twitter?
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 44427 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-17-2020 04:03 PM
While maybe not as pointed in his choice of words, Scott Kelly reacted to his sister-in-law, Gabby Giffords, being shot while he was aboard the space station in 2011.
What we do here in space is incredibly challenging, and our country faces a lot of challenges. The way we deal with challenges in this environment is through teamwork. Maybe the only good that can come of this is that we learn to work together.
Similarly, Bob Behnken reacted to the challenges of the pandemic and the protests earlier this month.
The overview effect [is what] astronauts typically achieve when they accomplish their first spaceflight and look back at the Earth and realize that there are no boundaries or borders really observable from space. You see that it's a single planet with a shared atmosphere. It's our shared place in this universe. So I think that perspective, as we go through things like the pandemic or we see the challenges across our nation or across the world, we recognize that we all face them together.
We're able to get [to] the International Space Station through cooperation with our international partners, with our commercial partners. Hopefully we can be an inspiration and an example for what we'd like to see happen across the world.
SkyMan1958 Member
Posts: 907 From: CA. Registered: Jan 2011
posted 06-17-2020 04:16 PM
quote:Originally posted by issman1: Which begs the question: will Glover be allowed to lecture, moralise or pontificate from the ISS as he has done on Twitter?
I might suggest that an astronaut expressing their view is rather different than pontificating.
We pick astronauts because they can think on their feet (or on their heads as the case may be in orbit). Why should they not be allowed to think about the great issues of their day, and express an opinion? Given that astronauts have certainly supported environmental and STEM issues from the ISS why is appealing to social justice for all humans any different?
328KF Member
Posts: 1281 From: Registered: Apr 2008
posted 06-17-2020 08:10 PM
This new fad will only last as long as it takes for one of them to run afoul of the media or a particular politician, and Bridenstine starts getting pelted with questions about what "his astronauts" are doing while representing a government agency.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 44427 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-17-2020 08:48 PM
Astronauts are generally smart people. They should be able to discern where the line is and stay clear of it well before anyone takes issue.
328KF Member
Posts: 1281 From: Registered: Apr 2008
posted 06-17-2020 09:11 PM
My point, Robert, is that eventually, depending on how far this goes, it will not be up to the astronauts, no matter how smart they are.
dcfowler1 Member
Posts: 90 From: Eugene, OR Registered: May 2006
posted 06-17-2020 09:42 PM
Apparently saying "racism is bad" is too controversial a position for a government agency to stand behind?
p51 Member
Posts: 1676 From: Olympia, WA Registered: Sep 2011
posted 06-17-2020 09:59 PM
Problem with that message, as it stands, is that many take that to mean that police are evil at the same time.
Lots of people are actually saying that, right or wrong. The moment that an astronaut even suggests such a thing, I would think NASA would have to do some back paddling to make up for it.
One of the many extra duties I had when I was still an army officer, was to teach classes on how to deal with the press. I had worked for a newspaper before my military service, so I had an idea how the press would screw up what somebody said. I would have to tell people, of all ranks, that it was their backside if they said anything that got back to the public in any way that would make them think that something you said was an official representation of the United States government. The moment that happened, you had to Stand Tall before the man and answer for yourself.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 44427 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-17-2020 10:04 PM
quote:Originally posted by dcfowler1: ...too controversial a position for a government agency to stand behind?
This isn't NASA versus the astronauts. Members of NASA's leadership have made their own statements, including Thomas Zurbuchen, the Associate Administrator for Science.
"In diversity there is beauty and there is strength." – Maya Angelou
In NASA Science, we understand the incredible benefits to having a diverse team. When people from different backgrounds come together for a common goal, we are able to achieve the impossible.
jimsz Member
Posts: 625 From: Registered: Aug 2006
posted 06-17-2020 10:09 PM
This certainly is not the NASA or the astronauts from the Mercury, Gemini and Apollo years. Everyone knew those astronauts and if they said anything controversial it would be big news. Today's astronauts are far from household names and carry little weight in society.
onesmallstep Member
Posts: 1320 From: Staten Island, New York USA Registered: Nov 2007
posted 06-19-2020 11:36 AM
I think it bespeaks just how far we've come (and how much left to be done) as regards to race and society in the US specifically that we have African-American and other minority astronauts speaking out. If the goal of NASA and other federal agencies is to be inclusive and offer equal opportunities to all (it's the law, after all) then why wouldn’t they offer an opinion of their own free will?
The record of civil rights in the US is a tragic and violent one, so any image and words of the late Maj. Robert Lawrence, Col. El Onizuka, Katherine Johnson — and Victor Glover — can serve to inspire others to achieve. It's not pontificating, it's engaging in civil discourse, We owe it to the next generation to hopefully leave the world a better place in which to pursue their dreams.
issman1 Member
Posts: 1065 From: UK Registered: Apr 2005
posted 06-19-2020 12:50 PM
There have been non white space travellers since July 1980.
The U.S. selected its first black astronaut in 1967. Although Robert Lawrence, Jr. did not live to reach outer space his name did: on the NG-13 Cygnus cargo ship to the International Space Station.
I cannot understand where prejudice in NASA exists overtly today despite nearly every astronaut class since 1978 having female and minority candidates and of course a black administrator.
bwhite1976 Member
Posts: 286 From: Belleville, IL Registered: Jun 2011
posted 06-19-2020 01:05 PM
I would speculate that NASA might actually encourage or tolerate the astronauts speaking out about various social issues. From a PR standpoint and in today's instant judgement of people via social media, stifling opinions of astronauts will only be interpreted negatively. We are in a new world.
albatron Member
Posts: 2790 From: Stuart, Florida Registered: Jun 2000
posted 06-19-2020 02:35 PM
Interesting discussion. While we all enjoy freedom of speech (although some would prefer you do not have it), with it comes responsibility.
I'm not so sure I'm for them tweeting, or not — no stance being taken here.
I just wonder what the older astronauts think.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 44427 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-19-2020 02:56 PM
quote:Originally posted by issman1: I cannot understand where prejudice in NASA exists overtly today...
Racism need not be overt to be a concern. It can be casual, such as the example shared by Cardman, or manifest where it is not easily seen, unless people speak up and call for change.
It also does not need to be overt to have a very visible, if even unintentional, outcome. In November, NASA and its international partners will mark 20 years of continuous human occupancy in space. But the only Black person to directly contribute to that record will have launched just two months earlier (assuming his launch occurs by then).
This forum is neither set up nor well suited for an in-depth discussion of racism. If you are concerned, I would highly recommend seeking out the organizations and forums that exist to properly examine the ongoing problem that it is.
quote:Originally posted by albatron: I just wonder what the older astronauts think.
I realize you're probably referencing an older demographic of astronaut, but Charlie Bolden told Space.com:
I call on my white brothers and sisters and tell them: Everything you want me to say or you like [retired Black astronauts] Leland [Melvin] or Mae [Jemison] saying, you ought to be saying it.
He also retweeted Jessica Meir's post cited upthread and responded to Victor Glover's tweet:
Couldn't have said any of this better, Victor!!! You make us all incredibly proud! Stay safe and continue to take care of your family.
David C Member
Posts: 1127 From: Lausanne Registered: Apr 2012
posted 06-19-2020 04:17 PM
Taking on board Robert's point about the purpose of this forum, I think that Cardman's tweet is particularly difficult. She was commenting on a joke. Now we all know that some humour is in "bad taste." That's the point of it. Depending on the joke it can be funny whilst making you think at the same time. Or it can be trying to lift spirits at a difficult time. Or it can be more sinister. One problem is that the joke teller's intent and audience's interpretatations may differ. Then of course just because people laugh it doesn't mean they find it funny.
Professionals should probably avoid edgy humour in the work place, and she really should have said something at the time. Her tweet gives more of an impression of washing NASA's dirty laundry in public than may be warranted by the offending joke. Or maybe it is. Either way it's a little unsettling and taking to social media was probably not the best way of handling the situation.
star61 Member
Posts: 301 From: Bristol UK Registered: Jan 2005
posted 06-19-2020 05:19 PM
Is there not a great irony here?
Such debate over astronauts voicing opinions in a fairly mild way, when their very own president, who is surely "employed" by the US government can say whatever he likes about anyone?
David C Member
Posts: 1127 From: Lausanne Registered: Apr 2012
posted 06-19-2020 05:59 PM
There is no "irony" great or small. Regardless of one's opinion of this President, that is the job of the head of every country's government. The President is not just another government employee. An astronaut is not a president.
issman1 Member
Posts: 1065 From: UK Registered: Apr 2005
posted 06-20-2020 12:45 PM
While I agree that this is not the place to discuss racial issues, is a government funded space agency an outlet for it either?
There is always a danger of conflating and politicising social issues. Clearly in the 1970s NASA needed to better reflect the melting pot which the U.S. had become. The space shuttle was ideally suited for that role in that era and throughout its 30 year history.
Lately we have all heard that the renewed American goal of getting boots back on the moon will be filled by those of "the first woman and next man." Noble if equality isn't the sole rationale.
You mention that Victor Glover will become the first black person to fly a long duration mission on the International Space Station during the 20th anniversary of the arrival of Expedition One.
I truly wish him well but believe former NASA astronaut Robert Satcher Jr. could have had that distinction 10 years ago, had he not retired after STS-129. Of course, we still do not know why Jeanette Epps never launched on Soyuz MS-09, as was widely anticipated, despite the huge fanfare surrounding her initial assignment (incidentally I posted on this forum in favour of Ms. Epps).
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 44427 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-20-2020 02:28 PM
I think you are trying to shoehorn this subject into only being about the conditions at NASA and that is not what the astronauts were doing when they posted. Go back and read Victor Glover's tweets; his specific point was that it is not just about space, but society at large.
At the same time, racism and the need to work to improve civil rights did not end at NASA just because the astronaut corps was opened to minorities. It isn't about who could have been the first Black man or woman to serve on a space station crew. It isn't even about who could be second or third.
Getting back to the original question, astronauts are people. They have opinions like everyone else and can share those opinions without speaking for NASA or representing more than themselves. After all, no one thinks that an astronaut is voicing the formal endorsement of the agency when they cheer on their favorite sports team or alma mater.
If you read what Victor Glover, Zena Cardman, Jessica Meir or other astronauts recently posted and took issue, that may be more of a reflection of your own sensibilities than anything they voiced. If that inspires discussion, as it has here, than perhaps the point of their posts has succeeded.
issman1 Member
Posts: 1065 From: UK Registered: Apr 2005
posted 06-20-2020 02:46 PM
I should point out here that I am not white and have experienced my own share of prejudice -- but never let it define me.
I humbly suggest that if those astronauts want societal change then it's best they proselytise as full time social justice activists.
star61 Member
Posts: 301 From: Bristol UK Registered: Jan 2005
posted 06-20-2020 02:55 PM
If astronauts are not able to speak out in the way they have, with grace and nuance, then any position of decent influence is compromised. No dissent, no questions.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 44427 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-20-2020 03:28 PM
quote:Originally posted by issman1: ...if those astronauts want societal change then it's best they proselytise as full time social justice activists.
Following that logic, no one should ever bother expressing their support for expanded space exploration unless they are prepared to become a professional lobbyist or go to work for a privately-funded space company.
Change likely won't come because one person speaks out, but doing so can inspire further conversation and consideration.
oly Member
Posts: 1080 From: Perth, Western Australia Registered: Apr 2015
posted 06-21-2020 12:45 AM
Astronauts who come from aviation backgrounds have had crew resource management training (CRM) and teamwork training designed to teach and encourage crew members to speak up when they have questions or concerns about anything within their environment so that attention is drawn to the matter at hand and corrective actions may be taken if needed.
Chastising them for doing so goes against their training, and judging them for doing so after the fact is illogical.
Astronauts coming from a science or engineering background also undertake this type of training and heavily rely on such skillsets during their astronaut careers. While they may all undergo public relations training at some point in their career, political sciences and governance probably did not make up much of their study load, and none of them are in a position to be policymakers while they are active astronauts.
The current social movement narrative has become warped. People feel the need to or are pressured into making comment in some way, but many who do so are being chastised or attacked for not following the script. Celebrities are being called out if they do not comment, derided if they get it wrong, and the opportunity to hold a social conversation about the issues is becoming lost in the noise.
Society is defined by the rules, norms, and institutions that make up the social framework, any stereotypes, definitions for race or religion, and standards that mark the boundaries between right and wrong are all set by the social tolerances of where these boundaries should be set. If society deems that it is acceptable for an astronaut to have and share an opinion about any social issue, how can this be wrong?
Anyone who watches or listens to some of the questions astronauts face during press conferences understands that they are asked to comment on some strange things regularly. Perhaps that one more voice is what it takes to bring about the change society seems to be calling for.
Delta7 Member
Posts: 1570 From: Bluffton IN USA Registered: Oct 2007
posted 06-29-2020 02:20 PM
This isn't your grandparents Astronaut Office. A different era. On many levels. I for one accept and embrace it.
issman1 Member
Posts: 1065 From: UK Registered: Apr 2005
posted 06-29-2020 04:30 PM
Some might say it's the wokest ever and potentially opens a Pandora's box that neither the Chief Astronaut nor NASA Administrator will be able to shut.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 44427 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-29-2020 04:53 PM
Maybe let NASA and the astronauts worry about that, or at the least, wait until there is a problem to point to, rather than posing hypotheticals.
Delta7 Member
Posts: 1570 From: Bluffton IN USA Registered: Oct 2007
posted 06-29-2020 05:32 PM
There are pictures of the original Mercury astronauts at a press conference, where some of them are smoking cigarettes and there are ashtrays on the table.
Today THAT would be a scandal resulting in a congressional hearing! Times change...
ManInSpace Member
Posts: 166 From: Brooklin, ON Canada Registered: Feb 2018
posted 06-29-2020 06:33 PM
quote:Originally posted by Robert Pearlman: Maybe let NASA and the astronauts worry about that...
posted 06-29-2020 06:51 PM
I honestly don't care what astronauts' opinions are on any issue, the same way I feel about entertainers or athletes. We live in an age where most people feel the need to express themselves on anything whether or not people care. If we find it too much, tune them out.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 44427 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 06-30-2020 08:39 AM
The concern is not only racism at NASA, but how the current events nationwide affect people at NASA, and how their own experiences with racism inform their feelings.
To that end, Johnson Space Center director Mark Geyer held the first in a series of conversations about diversity in the workplace on June 19, with Victor Glover, Deputy Center Director Vanessa Wyche, Assistant to the Center Director at Stennis Space Center Darryl Gaines and Deputy Director of the Information Resources Directorate (IRD) Kofi Burney.
issman1 Member
Posts: 1065 From: UK Registered: Apr 2005
posted 06-30-2020 12:45 PM
Conversations can be cathartic or practical.
Colokent Member
Posts: 13 From: Colorado Springs, CO USA Registered: Jun 2013
posted 06-30-2020 08:56 PM
This issue of astronauts making a statement is not new. Buzz Aldrin generated a minor ripple back in 1968, when after the murder of Dr. King, he chose to participate in a march to honor Dr. King’s accomplishments. His photograph appeared in a paper, and it seems it made some of his apolitical colleagues antsy.
David C Member
Posts: 1127 From: Lausanne Registered: Apr 2012
posted 07-01-2020 02:29 AM
I never knew that. One point to Buzz.
posted 06-17-2020 12:20 PM
Times change... 
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