posted 07-09-2015 09:29 PM               

Also guys like Chris Kraft, Glynn Lunney, Gene Kranz, the Apollo moonwalkers (not that I'm wishing any of them a "departure" soon!)

posted 07-11-2015 06:53 PM               

Also, there is a difference between the activities of a government, and that of a commercial or private entity (especially in this specific case given the existing history between the United States and Native Americans).

I don't recall there being a formal letter, but this statement by Peggy Wilhide, the agency's then-director of public affairs, was released:

"I give my commitment that if we ever discuss doing something like this again, we will consult more widely and we will consult with Native Americans."

posted 07-12-2015 08:41 AM               

I'm not planning on going anywhere soon but I said to my kids, "Look on the bright side. You would have to take a trip to Florida to visit!!"

posted 07-13-2015 01:47 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Jonnyed:
While I'm not advocating being insensitive it seems to me that if you constantly worry about offending some culture somewhere among the globe's 7.2 billion peoples, you'll not get a lick of anything done.

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I can't help but agree.

There are cultures around the world that would be offended by women holding public office, having a supervisory role over males, or simply driving a car... yet that doesn't stop the US Government from employing women to do these activities.

I am assuming that Shoemaker's family were integral to the decision to place his ashes on the moon. Therefore, I personally find it offensive that one culture would attempt to stop another culture (or family) from practicing their own beliefs or burial practices.

posted 07-13-2015 03:22 PM               

"If you have a problem with someone's ashes going to the Moon - something his own family wanted - feel free to build your own rocket, go out there and bring them back."

posted 07-14-2015 10:08 AM               

Beyond Earth orbit, maybe it gets problematic. Many cultures, including the Navajo, have beliefs that stretch for centuries or millennia, and those need to be respected. Of course, the Navajo Nation has no control over what or who may explore or be sent to the moon, so the question of things impacting or scarring the surface was rendered moot by the first probes sent there since the USSR's Luna series and the wreckage of many spacecraft that followed. The moon is no longer pristine in that regard.

So the reaction of the tribal elder to Shoemaker's ashes impacting the lunar surface was understandable, per HIS religious beliefs. Maybe if NASA's apology included the late Dr. Shoemaker's many accomplishments, especially his being based in the US Southwest, it would have put the memorial 'flight' in a better context. As far as people dying en route/on the surface of the moon or a planet in a future expedition, I'm sure NASA will have guidelines in place for the disposition of astronaut remains. A memorial or burial service per the fallen explorer's wishes, that is a more complex issue.

Mixing religion or even a hint of it on a government-funded mission is not new, as is well known to readers here on cS. Witness the flap over the reading of passages from the Book of Genesis on Apollo 8, and how it led Aldrin on Apollo 11 to ask in general for people to 'give thanks' in their own way for the historic event that just happened. Aldrin then had communion inside the LM, privately and with only Armstrong as his witness.

And controversies relating to science and cultural/religous beliefs are not limited to outer space. Back here on Earth, the astronomical observatories on Mauna Kea, Hawaii and Kitt Peak, Arizona have seen their share of problems regarding land use, building, and respect for native cultures. Hopefully, some way can be found regarding a peaceful coexistence for both sides to allow important research to be done and enlighten visitors and residents to the peoples who were there long before Galileo turned a telescope to the heavens.

posted 07-14-2015 12:00 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by onesmallstep:
Many cultures, including the Navajo, have beliefs that stretch for centuries or millennia, and those need to be respected.

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People used to think the world was flat. There was a Flat Earth Society in the Apollo era (and maybe exists today for all I know) and some of its members refused to accept the planet was round even when photos came back from Apollo 8 showing it was indeed (they argued it was a optical illusion, if memory serves).

Native peoples used to revere hybrid animal-people figures. The Egyptians did, too, but nobody takes that seriously anymore. I never heard anyone gripe that anything NASA did went against the gods Horus, Aten and Shu (look them up if you're curious) but it clearly would have, given that ancient belief system.

I'm not a religious person but people really need to understand that if you counted every single belief system there is, and worked around not offending people, you really would never get anything done.

posted 07-14-2015 01:54 PM               

I did not imply (if you read on to my following paragraphs), that NASA, ESA or Roscosmos should 'clear' every mission or event to suit all the world's religions (established, pagan or otherwise). The objection to Shoemaker's ashes going to the moon came after the fact, and I doubt seriously if NASA would have delayed, canceled or set up a review board based on a person's opinion, or a native tribe's religious beliefs.

As for native people revering hybrid animal/humans, nature, the stars etc. - well they still do! Ask the aborigines in Australia, peoples in Central/South America and our own Native Indian tribes. Even in the 21st Century, a 'belief' sometimes can coexist with modern science and understanding. As for flat earth theories; Western thought (and especially the church) was certainly behind the times or fiercely resistant when it came to Copernicus, Kepler and other astronomical theories and discoveries.