posted 07-23-2010 02:35 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by jasonelam:
Spaceflight is NOT simple.

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posted 07-24-2010 02:53 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by ColinBurgess:
But what of Wally Schirra? He .... displayed extraordinary calm and bravery in not aborting Gemini VI on the launch pad

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Yes, his decision not to eject in the Gemini 6 abort was a brave act, but later the crew admitted that this choice was also influenced by the fact that they had watched a test of the escape system which ejected the dummy astronauts through closed hatches.

posted 07-24-2010 07:04 AM               

The article itself has a short biopic of each of the fifteen candidates as well as brief comment from one of the contributers as to why they thought the person should be voted for as the greatest.

The introduction to the piece did say that they had chosen not to include people just on the basis of their being famous firsts which was why John Glenn and Valentina Tereshkova had not been included.

posted 07-24-2010 09:58 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by moorouge:
...watched a test of the escape system which ejected the dummy astronauts through closed hatches.

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1965 January 16
Simulated off-the-pad ejection (SOPE) qualification testing resumed. After a long delay because pyrotechnics were not available, simulated off-the-pad ejection (SOPE) qualification testing resumed with SOPE No. 12. Performance of the left seat was completely satisfactory, but the right seat rocket catapult fired prematurely because the right hatch actuator malfunctioned. The seat collided with the hatch and failed to leave the test vehicle. All hatch actuators were modified to preclude repetition of this failure.

posted 07-24-2010 11:46 AM               

1. John Young.
   
2. Anatoli Solovyev.
   
3. Vladmir Dzhanibekov.
   
4. Pete Conrad.
   
5. Jerry Ross.
   
6. Sergei Krikalyev
   
7. Neil Armstrong
   
8. Story Musgrave
   
9. Gene Cernan
   
10. Dave Scott

posted 07-24-2010 01:47 PM               

• Shannon Lucid for being first women to make five space flights
  
• Eileen Collins for being the first female commander of the mission
  
• Kathryn Sullivan for being the first woman to make an EVA
  
• Peggy Whitson for being the first female commander of the space station
  
• Sally Ride for being the first American female in space

posted 07-24-2010 02:10 PM               

• Eileen Collins was the first American female commander of a mission, or the first female to command a crew; Valentina Tereshkova, by definition of being the only person onboard Vostok 6, was the first female commander.

• Kathryn Sullivan was the first American woman to make an EVA; Svetlana Savitskaya preceded Sullivan being first by two months and 17 days (coincidentally, the 26th anniversary of Savitskaya's spacewalk is tomorrow).

posted 08-26-2010 09:37 AM               

Modern astronauts and cosmonauts are no less brave.

posted 08-26-2010 11:16 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by heng44:
I second John Young.

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posted 08-26-2010 01:27 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by mjanovec:
....eating a corned beef sandwich.

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Okay, he and Crippen were launched on an untried rocket. So where does this place Schirra who, with his crew, sat in an untried capsule that had killed three of their colleagues?

We don't expect our heroes to be perfect, but when selecting the best of the best surely imperfections in a record should be taken into account.

posted 08-26-2010 02:09 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by moorouge:
He and Crippen were launched on an untried rocket. So where does this place Schirra who, with his crew, sat in an untried capsule that had killed three of their colleagues?

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The shuttle had no such prior flight testing. Plus, there were many more aspects of the shuttle design that were "new" and unproven. Just consider the fact that the shuttle had to slow down from 17,500mph and hit a runway at the right speed halfway around the world. That had never been tried before.

quote:

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We don't expect our heroes to be perfect, but when selecting the best of the best surely imperfections in a record should be taken into account.

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posted 08-26-2010 03:31 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by mjanovec:
The Apollo capsule was not "untried" at the time Apollo 7 was launched. They had the benefit of having unmanned missions that preceded their flight to indicate the space-worthiness of the capsule.

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posted 08-26-2010 03:51 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by moorouge:
It wasn't Young that ate the sandwich, it was Grissom. This ruined a carefully planned food experiment as well as causing Grissom to vomit.

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If Grissom, or for that matter Young, had more than a nibble, it was a lot. Most of the sandwich was pocketed by Grissom after it started to crumb.

Grissom: What is it?

Young: Corn beef sandwich.

Grissom: Where did it come from?

Young: I brought it with me. Let's see how it tastes. Smells, doesn't it.

[11 seconds pass]

Grissom: Yes, it's breaking up. I'm going to stick it in my pocket.

Young: Is it? It was a thought, anyway.

Grissom: Yep.

Young: Not a very good one.

Grissom: Pretty good, though, if it would just hold together.

posted 08-27-2010 02:31 AM               

This resulted in a severe reprimand for Young and the introduction of, "New and stringent rules about what astronauts might take on future missions."

posted 08-27-2010 11:08 AM               

After our flight our superiors at NASA let us know in NO UNCERTAIN terms that non-man rated corned beef sandwiches were out...".

posted 08-27-2010 11:42 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by moorouge:
On the Shoulders of Titans - Manoeuvres of Molly Brown.

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What was not made clear, apparent to either the legislators or the press was that the official food was only there for evaluation of its taste, convenience, and reconstitution properties and had nothing to do with any scientific or medical objectives of the mission. No one expected to learn very much about the effects of space food on so short a flight.

The fracas did, however, produce some new and more stringent rules about what the astronauts might take with them on future missions.

posted 08-27-2010 01:35 PM               

Unauthorized Gemini 3 "cargo" included a corned beef sandwich reportedly purchased at Wolfie's Restaurant in Cocoa Beach, which was eaten by Grissom during the flight. Astronaut Young was authorized to eat specially prepared space food, and Grissom was not authorized to eat anything.

posted 08-27-2010 01:48 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by moorouge:
Gemini 3 fact sheet - Lethbridge

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posted 08-27-2010 03:29 PM               

Another experiment that needed to be completed was testing the new array of specially packaged space food. Because future Gemini missions were scheduled to last several days, supplying the crew with an adequate diet was critical. John Young had been assigned to conduct this important experiment. Grissom constantly complained about the dehydrated delicacies concocted by NASA nutritionists. He was willing to eat the reconstituted food only because there was nothing else available. Or so he thought. Gus had no idea that John Young had more than just souvenirs stowed in his space suit pockets.

I was concentrating on our spacecraft's performance, when suddenly John asked me, 'You care for a corned beef sandwich, skipper?' If I could have fallen out of my couch, I would have. Sure enough, he was holding an honest-to-john corned beef sandwich." (46) John had managed to sneak the deli sandwich, which was one of Grissom's favorites into his pocket. As Gus sampled the treat, tiny bits of rye bread began floating around the pristine cabin and the crew was just about knocked over by the pungent aroma of corned beef wafting through the small confines of the spacecraft. "After the flight our superiors at NASA let us know in no uncertain terms that non-man-rated corned beef sandwiches were out for future space missions. But John's deadpan offer of this strictly non-regulation goodie remains one of the highlights of our flight for me.(47)

posted 08-27-2010 03:47 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by moorouge:
The words "...no uncertain terms..." mean a severe reprimand in anyone's language. At least they do in the UK. The fact that Deke Slayton may have known and dismissed it is irrelevant. He didn't run NASA.

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• Grissom's use of the phrase "in no uncertain terms" does not seem to imply a reprimand at all, but rather a tongue-in-cheek admonishment, especially given its pairing with "non-man-rated corned beef sandwiches."

• Deke Slayton may have not led NASA as an agency but when it came to the astronaut corps and what they did, Deke did rule the roost.

posted 08-27-2010 05:43 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
Grissom's use of the phrase "in no uncertain terms" does not seem to imply a reprimand at all, but rather a tongue-in-cheek admonishment, especially given its pairing with "non-man-rated corned beef sandwiches."

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As I said - we seem to be divided by a common language. Grissom's own words that he was left in no uncertain terms by his superiors, to my understanding of English useage, can only imply that he and Young were given a right b********g.

What position Slayton had or how he ran the Astronaut Office is a red herring. The fact is that his superiors thought that it was necessary to issue a reprimand and this was given.

posted 08-27-2010 06:09 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by moorouge:
...but in the light of the above it is for you to prove that the sandwich was not a factor in Grissom's sea sickness, rather than for me to prove it was.

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"A factor" is one thing, but stating (in no uncertain terms, even) earlier that the sandwich "caused" Grissom's vomiting is quite another. In light of a well-documented potential cause (sea motion), making such a claim for something else is indeed something that would need to be proven, or at least documented with SOME sort of evidence. Was the sandwich shown to be contaminated? Did Grissom have a history of such reactions to corned beef? By what mechanism would have it caused the problem?

posted 08-27-2010 06:47 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by moorouge:
This ruined a carefully planned food experiment...

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There were no medical or scientific objectives when it came to food for either crew member. The study was focused on logistics: packaging, handling and disposal.

The Gemini 3 press kit explains:

Evaluation of flight food packaging and handling is one of the tasks scheduled during the mission. One hour during the second orbit has been provided in the pilot's flight plan to verify food items for use in later Gemini missions.

Two meals of four items each will be aboard the spacecraft. Each meal will be contained in an aluminum foil laminated over-wrap. There will be two rehydrated items and two bite-size items to a meal, sugarless chewing gum, and a wet pack for cleansing hands and face.

The food will be stowed in a box on the left side of the Gemini cockpit. During the second orbit, the command pilot will transfer the meals to the pilot in the right seat who will evaluate each item.

posted 08-28-2010 02:34 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
Slayton didn't do that to Young, which speaks volumes (in any language) as to the severity of any reprimand...

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What it does show, perhaps, is that Slayton thought sufficiently of Young to overlook the events of Gemini 3 and the reprimand which, in any case, came from a higher level than him. The fact that he selected Young for other flights has nothing to do with the severity, or otherwise, of any reprimand. It's a poor commander who allows a first error of judgment, after a right telling off, to stand in the way of the progress of a promising new recruit.

I think that this has gone on long enough and the time has come, in no uncertain terms, to draw a line under this topic and allow this thread to return to it's proper purpose. We'll agree to disagree.

posted 08-30-2010 11:21 AM               

I'll also throw this out just to stir the pot: Sorry Colin, but I can't abide John Glenn. To put him on a list like this would imply that fame, as opposed to accomplishment, is an overriding criterion. Maybe it's because I wasn't around for those heady early years, but I don't have the reverence for Glenn that so many do. He was certainly exceptional, and exceptionally brave...but no more so than his colleagues. It seems to me that Glenn excelled primarily at projecting the squeaky-clean persona that NASA seemed to value so much, especially in the beginning.

Maybe I'm being unfair. I freely admit that much of my ambivalence toward Glenn comes from the amount of respect I lost for him when he used his political clout to finagle a ride on the shuttle. "Geriatric studies," indeed.