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Author
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Topic: Astronauts reprimanded, grounded from flying
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RichieB16
Member Posts: 552
From: Oregon
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted 08-24-2008 10:20 PM
   
I was reading in "Deke!" that Slayton participated in an air race in the early 1990s in which Hoot Gibson was also a participant... and was in a mid-air collision with another pilot (page 325). Because he was breaking NASA rules involving "recreational flying" he was grounded and lost his spot on a mission he was training for which was intended to fly in the summer of 1991. I know that narrows it down to only a couple missions... but does anyone know what mission specifically he was supposed to command in 1991? |
Michael Cassutt
Member Posts: 358
From: Studio City CA USA
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 08-24-2008 11:27 PM
STS-46. He was replaced by Shriver. |
Delta7
Member Posts: 1505
From: Bluffton IN USA
Registered: Oct 2007
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posted 08-25-2008 11:27 AM
It's kind of interesting to note than when all was said and done, Gibson wound up flying only a couple of months after the mission he was originally scheduled to command. The grounding for a year didn't really have an impact on the time between flights. And he still wound up as Chief of the Astronaut Office and as CDR of the plum assignment of the first Mir docking. |
OV-105
Member Posts: 816
From: Ridgecrest, CA
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted 08-26-2008 05:32 PM
Gibson was not the only one to get grounded in 1991. The same time the Dave Walker got grounded for flying a T-38 near a airliner near or on the way to Washington D.C. after STS-30. He had been on the books for STS-44 and Fred Gregory got that seat. |
Jay Chladek
Member Posts: 2272
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 08-26-2008 09:05 PM
Dave "Red Flash" Walker was somewhat notorious in the astronaut office for doing some less then desireable things in a T-38. Mike Mullane's book "Riding Rockets" talks about his knack for wanting to fly the T-38 at "nape of the Earth" altitudes. Both he and Gibson were both Naval aviators and test pilots of the F-14 Tomcat during the early days of that program (as was Rick Hauck) prior to their selection as astronauts. |
moorouge
Member Posts: 2454
From: U.K.
Registered: Jul 2009
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posted 02-16-2010 10:51 AM
Looking through my booklets to check on the proximity of Mercury, Gemini and Apollo landings I came across this cryptic entry as a footnote in the 1969 edition - "Bean, Cunningham and Kerwin grounded for 30 days following a breach of flying regulations from Ellington A.F.B. beginning of January 1970."Can anyone give some flesh to these bones? |
ilbasso
Member Posts: 1522
From: Greensboro, NC USA
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 02-16-2010 12:31 PM
There's also the story about Cernan almost getting grounded after crashing a helicopter while ogling women on the beach. |
star51L
Member Posts: 340
From: Vilano Beach, FL, USA
Registered: Aug 2002
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posted 02-16-2010 03:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by moorouge:
Can anyone give some flesh to these bones?
Fourth or fifth press release down explains the 30-day groundings. |
Jay Chladek
Member Posts: 2272
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 02-16-2010 05:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ilbasso:
There's also the story about Cernan almost getting grounded after crashing a helicopter while ogling women on the beach.
Kind of hard to oogle women on the beach when he crashed it in the Banana River as I recall (one of the inlet waterways around Cape Canaveral as opposed to the ocean. I've been there and there aren't too many women on those beaches. Plus there were only a couple witnesses as to the crash and they were on small boats at the time.As Cernan described it in his book, he was doing helicopter flying to keep his landing skills sharp (helicopter training was assigned for use to help with flying the LM) as he was the backup commander for Apollo 14 and it was a few short weeks before the launch. He thought it might be a good idea to just touch the water and when the skid touched it went in too far. The water suction pulled the helicopter under. He got out with only minor burns on his face. When Deke asked him what mechanical failure the helicopter had (presumably to give Gene an out), Gene owned up that it was pilot error. Deke asked the question again and Gene owned up to it again and wouldn't change his story. He never got taken off his duties as Apollo 14 backup commander and it didn't affect his selection for Apollo 17. |
MCroft04
Member Posts: 1634
From: Smithfield, Me, USA
Registered: Mar 2005
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posted 02-16-2010 07:32 PM
I recall that Gene states he crashed into the Indian River in his book, but I've read in other places it was the Banana River. Anyone know for sure which river it was? |
ASCAN1984
Member Posts: 1049
From: County Down, Nothern Ireland
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 02-17-2010 01:38 AM
quote:
Originally posted by moorouge:
Can anyone give some flesh to these bones?
Three astronauts have been grounded from aircraft flying for 30 days for violations of NASA flying regulations. The groundings were ordered by Donald K. Slayton, Director of Flight Crew Operations. The astronauts are Alan Bean, Walter Cunningham and Joseph Kerwin. On December 16th through a communication misunderstanding, Bean took off from Ellington Air Force Base, Texas without a departure release, although he thought he was cleared for take off. On December 17th Cunningham and Kerwin, in separate flights from Ellington, violated a regulation requiring them to list a suitable departure alternate airport before take off. The groundings are normal action taken by all flying organizations in such cases. They will be returned to flight status on January 23rd. |
moorouge
Member Posts: 2454
From: U.K.
Registered: Jul 2009
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posted 02-17-2010 02:59 AM
quote:
Originally posted by star51L:
Fourth or fifth press release down...
Many thanks - found it.  |
Steve Procter
Member Posts: 1031
From: Leeds, Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Oct 2000
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posted 02-17-2010 08:38 AM
Did that in effect end up as a financial penalty as with a 30 day suspension they couldn't log the hours in the month to qualify for flight pay? |
webhamster
Member Posts: 106
From: Ottawa, Canada
Registered: Jul 2008
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posted 02-19-2010 09:04 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Jay Chladek:
When Deke asked him what mechanical failure the helicopter had (presumably to give Gene an out), Gene owned up that it was pilot error. Deke asked the question again and Gene owned up to it again and wouldn't change his story. He never got taken off his duties as Apollo 14 backup commander and it didn't affect his selection for Apollo 17.
The original ABC coverage of STS-1 is on YouTube and I was watching it a few weeks back. Slayton was on with Cernan and at one point Cernan makes a joke about crashing a helicopter into "the river behind me" to which Slayton gave him a "Don't even joke about that" kind of reprimand on the air. I found it hilarious knowing the story behind it. |
Jay Chladek
Member Posts: 2272
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 02-19-2010 09:24 PM
Yeah that was pretty cute with Geno mentioning his bad luck and helicopters (just one copter as I recall, although he did have a close call with an FJ Fury attack jet once in the Navy).That is why I like Gene Cernan, he is about as straight a shooter as they come. He also isn't a glory hound as he typically doesn't take the stage unless what he is saying is valid, or he firmly stands behind it. |
Duke Of URL
Member Posts: 1316
From: Syracuse, NY
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 02-21-2010 12:52 PM
quote:
Originally posted by webhamster:
The original ABC coverage of STS-1 is on YouTube...
Can you give the link to this clip? Thanks! |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 02-21-2010 12:58 PM
I believe he was referring to the STS-2 ABC coverage discussed here. |
webhamster
Member Posts: 106
From: Ottawa, Canada
Registered: Jul 2008
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posted 02-21-2010 08:20 PM
Yes, you are correct it was the STS-2 coverage where that comment was made. However, if you search YouTube for "STS-x News Coverage" you'll amazed by what's been posted. It all seems to be from one user and his channel is a goldmine.It's been my lunchtime viewing at work for the last few weeks. I'm up to STS-5 right now. |
Mike Isbell
Member Posts: 551
From: Silver Spring, Maryland USA
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 02-23-2010 07:00 PM
As I recall there was very little coverage of the launch of STS-5 due to the death of Soviet leader Leonid Brezhnev. I recall that the ABC team was at KSC for the 7:11 AM launch, but when coverage was to begin at 7:00 AM, Frank Reynolds talked about Mr. Brezhnev until less than 5 minutes before the launch and even then combined the launch coverage with Eugene Cernan talking about having met Mr. Brezhnev during the ASTP crew visits to the Soviet Union. It was also noted that STS-5 commander Vance Brand was one of the crewmembers on Apollo-Soyuz and Frank Reynolds wondered if the crew of the Columbia had been informed about Mr. Brezhnev's passing. After the launch a few launch replays were shown and then the launch coverage was over. |
Spacefest
Member Posts: 1168
From: Tucson, AZ
Registered: Jan 2009
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posted 02-23-2010 07:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Jay Chladek:
Yeah that was pretty cute with Geno mentioning his bad luck and helicopters (just one copter as I recall, although he did have a close call with an FJ Fury attack jet once in the Navy).
Don't forget about the crash in the Czech Republic in 2001. A Czech military chopper with Gene on board ran out of gas in mid air. Cosmonaut Vladimir Remek was aboard also. |
Mike Isbell
Member Posts: 551
From: Silver Spring, Maryland USA
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 02-24-2010 03:56 PM
I believe that John Blaha was aboard also. |
Spacefest
Member Posts: 1168
From: Tucson, AZ
Registered: Jan 2009
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posted 02-25-2010 12:17 PM
I think so, too, but the news I cited made no mention. I believe Blaha was hospitalized. |
LM-12
Member Posts: 3208
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 04-20-2014 05:16 PM
quote:
Originally posted by MCroft04:
I recall that Gene states he crashed into the Indian River in his book, but I've read in other places it was the Banana River. Anyone know for sure which river it was?
It was the Indian River, according to one of the NASA news releases.This helicopter photo is one of three found in the Apollo 14 album on flickr. The photo number is S70-53565. Looks like Cernan at the controls. |
Tom
Member Posts: 1597
From: New York
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 04-21-2014 05:13 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
I believe he was referring to the STS-2 ABC coverage discussed here.
It seems that Gene Cernan had a "special" interest in this flight. I guess he would being that Joe Engle was his former Apollo 17 crew mate. |
RichieB16
Member Posts: 552
From: Oregon
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted 03-09-2015 05:25 PM
So, I was reading a little more about Hoot Gibson being grounded... was he really punished? So, he lost his command on STS-46 and was replaced by Loren Shirver. Then, he went and commanded the very next mission a couple months later. It seems like his "grounding" didn't make much difference in the long run. Am I missing something? |
Mike Isbell
Member Posts: 551
From: Silver Spring, Maryland USA
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 03-09-2015 05:37 PM
In 1991, the flight of STS-39 was delayed from March until April 28. The ripple effect of this delay resulted in STS-46 being moved from an early 1992 flight aboard the Discovery to a July 31 launch aboard the Atlantis. |
albatron
Member Posts: 2732
From: Stuart, Florida
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted 03-09-2015 09:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Jay Chladek:
Kind of hard to oogle women on the beach when he crashed it in the Banana River as I recall (one of the inlet waterways around Cape Canaveral as opposed to the ocean). I've been there and there aren't too many women on those beaches. Plus there were only a couple witnesses as to the crash and they were on small boats at the time.
Actually, there are beaches in both rivers. |
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