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  Neil Armstrong question in Parade Magazine

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Author Topic:   Neil Armstrong question in Parade Magazine
MCroft04
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From: Smithfield, Me, USA
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posted 12-25-2005 07:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MCroft04   Click Here to Email MCroft04     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In this week's Parade Magazine (comes with many daily newspapers) there is a question about Neil Armstrong talking of seeing UFOs on the Apollo 11 mission during a recent TV interview (plus the usual why does the government cover these things up?).

The response says that the UFOs were deep-space cosmic rays and that Neil did not say anything about them in the recent 60 Minutes interview.

However, the response also refers back to "One Giant Leap" by Leon Wagener, and goes on to say that the book is being made into a TV movie for TNT. I liked Wagener's book, but have to say that I think James Hansen's "First Man" is a much better book. Anyway, I will look forward to the TNT movie.

Wehaveliftoff
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posted 12-26-2005 09:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Wehaveliftoff   Click Here to Email Wehaveliftoff     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Was that photo of Neil Armstrong in the Parade magazine article in Wagener's book? Does a litho like that exist?

Robert Pearlman
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posted 12-26-2005 09:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Which photo are you looking for?

MCroft04
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posted 12-26-2005 04:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MCroft04   Click Here to Email MCroft04     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The photo of Neil in the Parade magazine, 1969 wearing blue flight suit or jacket with NASA patch, is not in the "One Giant Leap" book, nor is it in "First Man".

spacegrl13
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posted 12-26-2005 11:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spacegrl13   Click Here to Email spacegrl13     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was also wondering what picture that was, I don't think I've seen it before. I think it might be a Gemini era photo.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 12-27-2005 01:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Unfortunately, I did not see the particular Parade magazine in question.

Is it similar to the suit he is wearing here?

MCroft04
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posted 12-27-2005 09:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for MCroft04   Click Here to Email MCroft04     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Very similar picture, but hair is a bit longer. The blue flight suit (?) looks very similar; perhaps even the same one or same type.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 12-27-2005 06:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by MCroft04:
The response says that the UFOs were deep-space cosmic rays and that Neil did not say anything about them in the recent 60 Minutes interview. However, the response also refers us to the "One Giant Leap" book by Leon Wagner, and goes on to say that the book is being made into a TV movie for TNT.
It's not clear if Parade's answer was based on Wagener's book or if the recommendation was separate; regardless, its wrong. Armstrong did not report seeing the cosmic ray flashes that Aldrin and Collins (and later missions' crews) did.

As Hansen writes in "First Man," the UFO that Armstrong (and his crewmates) did see and report was agreed by the crew to be a panel from their S-IVB that had been ejected during the extraction of Eagle. NASA could tell them where the S-IVB itself was, but the panels were not tracked.

MCroft04
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posted 12-27-2005 07:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MCroft04   Click Here to Email MCroft04     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Apollo 11 crew did see "flashes" ("First Man"; pages 428-429) which I interpret to be what Parade calls "deep-space cosmic rays" (note, this is my interpretation), which was a separate phenomenon from the panel of the S-IVB.

Later crews also saw these "flashes" (notably Apollo 12), with their eyes closed. The "flashes" are supposedly a "phenonemon that occurred in the especially dark conditions of outer space inside the human eyeball". Read page 429 of "First Man" to learn more.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 12-27-2005 07:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mel, it was that same excerpt from "First Man" that I was referencing; it is Collins and Aldrin that report seeing the flashes, to which Armstrong replies, "I don't see anything." followed by "Oh I see a little flashing out there, yes." and is described by Hansen as being not "so sure they were not just optical phenomena..."

So as worded in Parade, I would say it is incorrect to attribute the sighting of flashes to Armstrong, leaving the S-IVB panel as Armstrong's only UFO.

MCroft04
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posted 12-27-2005 09:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MCroft04   Click Here to Email MCroft04     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
After reading Hansen again your interpretation seems correct.

Anyway, I'm looking forward to the TV movie, although I expect I'll have the same response as I did after seeing the 60 Minutes interview with Neil.

FFrench
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posted 12-29-2005 02:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FFrench     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
According to the photo credits on the side of the page of Parade magazine, it is a photo by Karsh - who is of course well known for taking stunning portraits, including a very famous one of the Apollo 11 crew, and a great Gagarin portrait. Karsh's Apollo 11 crew portrait is one of my favorite astronaut photos ever.

The full credit given for the Parade photo is: Karsh / Camera Press / Retina

Camera Press has an online archive, but you have to register with them. Considering how cropped Armstrong is in the shot, it could well have been another crew portrait.

John Charles
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posted 12-29-2005 07:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for John Charles     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hard to dispute Francis' finding, but I am still struck by a two aspects of the photo. First, the flight suit looks period, but I don't think the dark T-shirt was used before the shuttle era. (Does someone have other flight suit photos handy, to confirm or refute the use of dark T-shirts during the Apollo era?)

The more striking aspect to me is the pose and expression, a much more assertive and even mysterious Armstrong than I have ever seen before.

Thus, I think it is not a 1969-era photo but rather recent conceptual artwork. If it is recent, I would like to know more about where it came from. If in fact it is old, it might shed new light on Armstrong's personality, not to mention a new mystery about how no one (not even Ed Hengeveld!) has come up with it before now!

FFrench
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posted 12-29-2005 11:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for FFrench     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting ideas, John. I have to say, however, the lighting on his face is reminiscent of other Karsh photos - see this page and the link to the Gagarin shot, which the person who hosts the page describes as "as though all of these promontories have been burned by some strange intergalactic illumination... A fantastic sheen of pure adventure coats his face" - a similar kind of mysterious look that you see in the Armstrong photo.

Robert Pearlman
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posted 01-10-2006 11:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I asked Jim Hansen if he knew of the photo's source, and in turn he asked Armstrong. This is Neil's reply, via Hansen, shared with permission:
I don't remember that picture so I can't identify when and where it might have been taken. It is in a standard flight suit (for aircraft) with a post Gemini haircut — but that's all I can identify.

John Charles
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From: Houston, Texas, USA
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posted 01-14-2006 07:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for John Charles     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No big surprise, but it appears that I was mistaken about the Armstrong photo: it really seems to be from the Apollo era, and is apparently not — as I imagined — a more recent artifact.

I contacted Camera Press and received access for browsing, and came up with the Armstrong photo and several others also by Karsh of Armstrong, Aldrin and Conrad, individually, in their blue flight suits, and Armstrong in his "civvies" in addition to the well-known Karsh portrait of the three Apollo 11 crewmembers. The Armstrong and Aldrin flight suit photos' "dates" are all July 14, 1999, which I interpret to mean that the original prints were scanned and placed online on that date. This might have been in anticipation of the approaching Apollo 11 30th anniversary, and Camera Press wanted to have relevant photos available for paying customers like newspapers and other press services.

The Conrad photo was similarly "dated" July 9, 1999 — the date he died. I speculate that Camera Press went into their archives for any Conrad photos to illustrate stories about him, and perhaps realized that they also had Apollo 11 crew photos in there as well.

Robert and I agree that it would be improper to post them at this time because they are copyright protected, and he would need Camera Press' permission. But, I will investigate further. Perhaps we can also learn more about when and where they were taken. Does someone (maybe Francis) know when the well-known Karsh portrait of the Apollo 11 crew was taken? Perhaps most of the others were from the same photo session.

As unique and seldom seen as they are, I wonder why they haven't been published before.

Incidentally, Robert noted that the Apollo 11 patches on Neil's and Buzz's blue flight suits appear to be those that were specifically fashioned for their Biological Isolation Garments, which helps narrow down the dates (when were those patches first available?).

But about that dark t-shirt... It only shows up in the one Armstrong photo (so far). I am searching my image collection for more evidence on the whole t-shirt situation!

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