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  Ed White, Deke Slayton and Gemini command (Page 2)

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Author Topic:   Ed White, Deke Slayton and Gemini command
Tom
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From: New York
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posted 02-07-2023 07:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tom   Click Here to Email Tom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Based on the scenario of choosing between Young and White on who should command the Gemini (10) flight, wouldn't it have made more sense to have Young assigned to Apollo 1 since he already flew with Grissom on Gemini 3?

Robert Pearlman
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From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 02-07-2023 07:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Given that Grissom and Young caught Congress' ire over the corned beef sandwich on Gemini 3, maybe Slayton thought it better to keep the two separated rather than rehash that episode.

Delta7
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posted 02-07-2023 08:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Delta7   Click Here to Email Delta7     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Maybe Grissom had something to do with the decision. Slayton was known to get input from those he selected as commander as to who their crew would be. I can envision Deke telling Gus he could have Young or White as his Senior Pilot with the other getting command of Gemini 10. And Grissom, presented with that choice, thinking he would be doing Young a favor by letting him command a Gemini flight.

There was a similar situation when Deke offered Neil Armstrong the option of having Jim Lovell on his Apollo 11 crew, and the decision being made that Lovell deserved a command of his own.

ashot
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posted 02-08-2023 10:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ashot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
GT-9 to GT-12 meant four commander seats and obviously, Slayton gave these seats to those who he thought were more suitable for the job (especially to those he wanted to later use as core members of early Apollo crews).

(His "N+3" rotation rule was never carved in stone and Slayton, from time to time, used to apply a different approach when it was needed. So, if he really wanted to give somebody a chance, he would just do it - like he did it for See.)

White's Gemini assignments never seemed to be focusing on rendezvous - after all, GT-7, even though physically demanding, was relatively a simple flight. Perhaps, when assigning Young to GT-6A, Slayton had already anticipated re-cycling Young to a rendezvous mission. From that point of view, GT-6A backup pilot was more logical starting point to get a docking mission, than GT-7 backup Command Pilot. And, perhaps, when assigning White to GT-7 he already kept in his mind that White will not get rotated to Gemini and will go to Apollo instead. Otherwise, Slayton would have formed GT-6/7 backup crews differently.

As I see it, this whole story is related to Slayton's (and maybe not only his) vision on Group 2 rating.

Tom
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From: New York
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posted 02-08-2023 12:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Tom   Click Here to Email Tom     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Very interesting! However, why wasn't Young assigned as the Gemini 6 back-up commander following GT-3, as was usually the process (ie: GT-4, 5, 6, 7)?

ashot
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posted 02-08-2023 03:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ashot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The original GT-6 was going to be the first docking mission — quite a groundbreaking, a definite "first," and arguably, the most important mission of whole Gemini program.

Of course, this is a pure guess, but Slayton might have wanted to have Grissom as a backup Command Pilot of GT-6 to have another experienced and highly qualified (and another original Mercury) guy to fly this definite "first" mission in case something happened to Schirra.

(I guess no one doubts that Grissom was quite high in Slayton's rating of the original 13 Gemini astronauts.)

By the way, this was the only flown Gemini crew that got re-assigned to a backup function without any change (thus, making one of Group 3 guys unhappy for not getting this assignment.)

However, after GT-6 was flown, the docking missions became a sort of "routine" and were considered as a mean to get more "pre-selected" people to get hands-on experience in docking. I think, when assigning the last Gemini crews, Slayton for sure was thinking of using the very same people for future Apollo CSM/LM test flights and first landings.

So, the only "uncertainty" I see is See. As Slayton himself described it, he became "sentimental" and gave See a command (as he thought he needed someone stronger to do the EVAs of GT-8 and onward.) But what would be See's future after GT-9 (and backing up GT-12) is uncertain. I strongly doubt Slayton would assign him as a commander of Apollo; I think he would either move See to AAP, or would make him a CMP. But, all this would depend on how well GT-9 was flown, of course.

(An interesting question: what was Slayton's relative rating for See, Lovell, and White in that original 13 Gemini astronauts list? 11, 12 and 13?)

carmelo
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From: Messina, Sicilia, Italia
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posted 02-08-2023 04:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for carmelo   Click Here to Email carmelo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have read this my old question of 2006 relatively to Ed White rating:
quote:
Originally posted by carmelo:
In yours opinion in which areas were weaker White (computers, navigation, EVAs, rendezvous)?
The question wasn't answered then, so I ask it again.

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 49918
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 02-08-2023 04:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I this Michael answered it best here:
quote:
Originally posted by Michael Cassutt:
The complete picture died with Slayton and Shepard.
As he pointed out then, without being able to ask those who made the actual decisions and arrived at the rankings, there little more information to go on.

Slayton wasn't a computer, nor were any of the other decision makers. They didn't always make decisions based solely on logic, even if they tried to, and there were numerous variables for which we no longer not only have the data, but even knowledge of their existence.


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