Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 05-11-2018 01:42 PM
Heritage Auctions will host a space exploration memorabilia auction on Nov. 1-2, 2018 at its headquarters in Dallas, Texas.
As announced on Friday (May 11), the two-day auction will be the first of several planned sales featuring items from the Neil Armstrong family collection.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
The personal collection of the first man to set foot on the moon is heading to auction.
The family of the late Neil Armstrong has turned to Heritage Auctions of Dallas to sell more than 2,000 items from the astronaut's estate. An initial offering from the Armstrong Family Collection, as Heritage is referring to the archive, will debut for sale in early November, with additional auctions planned for next year.
spaced out Member
Posts: 3110 From: Paris, France Registered: Aug 2003
posted 07-20-2018 12:52 PM
That answers the question as to how Armstrong marked his flown covers.
When Howard C. Weinberger wrote his piece on the Apollo covers for the Space Flown Artifacts site he could only speculate that it was likely either "NA" or "NAA" since no example from Armstrong's collection had ever been sold.
Guess I'll have to make an addendum now.
MrSpace86 Member
Posts: 1618 From: Gardner, KS, USA Registered: Feb 2003
posted 07-20-2018 07:34 PM
Can any of us even afford this stuff?
I am curious as to where the proceeds will go and why the Armstrong family decided to sell over passing it on, preserving it, and/or following what Neil Armstrong did with his items (not sell them).
thisismills Member
Posts: 263 From: Michigan Registered: Mar 2012
posted 07-20-2018 10:01 PM
I am curious how collectors will respond to all the items being encapsulated by the new division of CCG named CAG.
Besides Robbins Medallions and other numismatic items, the highest priced artifacts currently out in the market aren't typically preserved this way.
I can see opinions arising from both sides: those happy that the items are preserved from damage with their unique provenance protected; and those who want to be "hands-on" with the artifacts. But will it shift the prices up or down?
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 07-20-2018 10:40 PM
quote:Originally posted by MrSpace86: I am curious as to where the proceeds will go...
Mark Armstrong told the Sarasota Herald-Tribune that "a significant amount" of the proceeds will go to charities around the world that his parents would support.
Mark Armstrong said his family struggled with how to share his father's keepsakes.
"I discussed our dilemma with [CAG chairman] Mark Salzberg, who said that his companies had the wherewithal to help us research, catalog and preserve these items for future generations — and that each item would be photographed for later research," Armstrong said. "This last point was very important to me because I did not want any information to be lost to future researchers if or when items were placed into private hands."
Per Salzberg, CAG will not benefit from the sale.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 07-20-2018 10:44 PM
quote:Originally posted by thisismills: I am curious how collectors will respond to all the items being encapsulated...
Generally speaking, I am not a fan of encapsulation. That includes Robbins medallions, which I think lose some of their charm when separated from their original presentation case.
But that being said, the encapsulation in this case doubles as a form of provenance. If everything is encapsulated with the same "The Armstrong Family Collection" logo, then it is a way to discern items being claimed as coming from Armstrong's collection and those that actually are. (Not that someone couldn't try faking the encapsulation, but it adds another hurdle.)
I am curious if we will see a lasting hierarchy among Apollo 11 memorabilia. I fully expect an initial "Armstrong bump," but over time will collectors sustain a premium on Armstrong-owned Robbins medallions or flags over the same item from Aldrin or Collins? That is not a distinction we see with the other crews' memorabilia.
David C Member
Posts: 1015 From: Lausanne Registered: Apr 2012
posted 07-21-2018 02:06 AM
I just hope the big money boys aren't too greedy and leave some scraps for the rest of us.
spaced out Member
Posts: 3110 From: Paris, France Registered: Aug 2003
posted 07-21-2018 04:13 AM
The encapsulation was indeed a bit jarring to see at first.
Part of the problem here is that Armstrong didn't add any provenance directly to most of the items. A flown flag or beta cloth patch that's not signed or inscribed and not mounted to an original presentation is completely anonymous. Obviously such items can be accompanied by an LOA produced by the family but the encapsulation can be seen as attempt to add a little bit more strength to the provenance.
In my opinion items with intrinsic unique identities (e.g. serial numbered Robbins medallions, or numbered covers) don't suffer from this problem. An LOA from the Armstrong family stating that cover/medallion X was part of this collection is all the provenance you need. Encapsulation adds nothing to this, but it's a personal opinion as to whether it detracts anything.
The Wright flyer material pieces are interesting. Has the large piece has been cut into a couple of hundred small swatches?
Rick Mulheirn Member
Posts: 4167 From: England Registered: Feb 2001
posted 07-21-2018 04:56 AM
I take it the materials used to encapsulate the items are of archival quality?
rgarner Member
Posts: 1193 From: Shepperton, United Kingdom Registered: Mar 2012
posted 07-21-2018 05:05 AM
Is there anything stopping a person from, say, removing a flown cover from a capsule? So long as it is done carefully that is.
Rick Mulheirn Member
Posts: 4167 From: England Registered: Feb 2001
posted 07-21-2018 05:17 AM
In my opinion, unless Armstrong has signed the piece in question removing anything from the encapsulation would destroy its provenance, unless of course it was something with an easy and obvious identification such as a numbered Robbins. For the most part the lots don't have such inherent provenance.
rgarner Member
Posts: 1193 From: Shepperton, United Kingdom Registered: Mar 2012
posted 07-21-2018 05:33 AM
The flown covers are signed and the statement of authenticity written on them. But my point is that if they can be removed (with care), then what is the big deal?
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 07-21-2018 11:48 AM
Encapsulation can always be broken, though depending on the style, maybe not without destroying the capsule. I once broke into NGC capsules and they were left as broken shards of plastic.
I think Rick's point is illustrated well by the red-numbered portrait being offered. If someone pays a premium for that because it belonged to Armstrong, then the only way to retain that connection is to keep it sealed in the encapsulation.
MrSpace86 Member
Posts: 1618 From: Gardner, KS, USA Registered: Feb 2003
posted 07-21-2018 12:25 PM
Just to chime in, I personally love the encapsulation! As others have stated, it really seals the provenance for an item that otherwise could be sold as belonging to any person. If anything, it would make displaying easier.
My other thought/hope/opinion is that "big time" museums do snag up the more important items (the Wright Flyer components, large flags, etc.) to keep them on permanent display. But given how high these items will go, I don't think museums will be able to afford a lot of it.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 07-21-2018 12:35 PM
Keep in mind, these are the leftovers.
For example, the National Museum of the U.S. Air Force, the National Air and Space Museum and the The Museum of Flight in Seattle all exhibit Apollo 11-flown Wright Flyer material (the latter was provided the display by the Armstrong family after Neil Armstrong died).
That is not to say that other museums might not desire some of the items, but from what we have seen of the collection thus far, a number of the items are already represented in museum archives.
spaceflori Member
Posts: 1499 From: Germany Registered: May 2000
posted 07-21-2018 12:39 PM
Those of us who would proudly mat and frame some of the items the plastic encapsulation would rather look "odd" on your wall. Plus nobody knows for sure what plastic does to the materials in the coming decades. Will it yellow?
Would have rather preferred that Rick and Mark somehow labelled the items permanently somewhere not too prominently if they are not certified by Neil himself.
thisismills Member
Posts: 263 From: Michigan Registered: Mar 2012
posted 08-06-2018 02:52 PM
Additional items from the Armstrong family have recently been posted to Heritage auction.
Has anyone seen this before for a Gemini Fliteline?
YankeeClipper Member
Posts: 617 From: Dublin, Ireland Registered: Mar 2011
posted 08-06-2018 03:40 PM
That's interesting as Armstrong was the backup Command Pilot for Gemini 5.
Speaking to Alan Bean a few years ago about what Apollo 12 Robbins he had left, Alan said that he had two or three blank undated examples. Undated Robbins medallions also exist for Apollo 11 and 16.
I don't recall ever seeing undated Gemini Fliteline medallions. The Apollo 1 Fliteline medallions remained undated with the exception of the few flown by McDivitt on Apollo 9, which carry the Apollo 9 dates.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
See Space-Flown Armstrong Items at the World's Fair of Money
The exhibit at the NGC booth includes Apollo 11 Robbins Medals, which show an early version of the design eventually used on the Eisenhower dollar.
Collectibles Authentication Guaranty (CAG) will present selections from the Armstrong Family Collection at the American Numismatic Association's World's Fair of Money, which is being held Aug. 14-18 in Philadelphia.
CAG is an independent affiliate of Numismatic Guaranty Corporation (NGC) and Paper Money Guaranty (PMG), which are well-known and respected within the numismatic community for their expert coin and paper money certification services, respectively.
The incredible Armstrong Family Collection includes thousands of historic artifacts saved by astronaut Neil Armstrong and his immediate family. CAG will showcase over a dozen of the most significant artifacts from this collection, including several that were on the Apollo 11 mission to the moon, in which Armstrong famously made the "giant leap for mankind." See these artifacts on display at NGC Booth #1417 through the afternoon of Friday, August 17.
The artifacts include items flown on Apollo 11:
A Gold Robbins Medal and a Silver Robbins Medal flown on the Apollo 11 mission. Robbins Medals were struck for the Apollo astronauts to carry on their missions; only one was struck in gold for each of the Apollo 11 astronauts, while many others were struck in silver.
A wing piece and a propeller piece from the Wright Flyer, the plane that made the first powered flight in 1903 at Kitty Hawk North Carolina. Under a special arrangement, Armstrong was allowed to retain pieces of the Wright Flyer.
An American flag, one of a number of flags that Armstrong took with him on the mission. Most of these were postcard-sized, but this one is relatively large: 11.75 x 18 inches.
A piece of Beta cloth, a fireproof material, with the Apollo 11 insignia.
Other items:
Two Fliteline Medals flown on Gemini 8. The mission in 1966 was Armstong's only other trip into to space. The Fliteline Medals were the predecessors to the Robbins Medals.
An "insurance cover" from Apollo 11. These postal collectibles were signed by Armstrong and his Apollo 11 crewmates, Buzz Aldrin and Michael Collins. The astronauts signed hundreds of these and left them for their families to sell in case they did not return from the mission.
A NASA photograph showing Neil Armstrong. In it, Armstrong poses in his spacesuit, holding his helmet, with a lunar background. This image was used for the Newsweek magazine cover celebrating the Apollo 11 mission in July 1969.
A NASA photograph showing Aldrin descending the lunar lander ladder. The image was taken by Armstrong, just a few minutes after he became the first person to step onto the lunar surface.
A NASA photograph showing President Nixon and the astronauts, dated July 24, 1969. That was the day the Apollo 11 mission ended with the astronauts' splashdown and recovery aboard the aircraft carrier USS Hornet. Nixon was on board the ship to greet the astronauts, who had to spend several weeks in quarantine.
A telegram sent by Nixon in connection to celebration of Armstrong by his hometown of Wapakoneta, Ohio. It reads, in part: "All Americans, all free men everywhere, join in proud recognition of your accomplishments as a member of that Apollo 11 mission."
An Apollo 11 Crew Patch. Numismatists can compare the insignia on the Gold Robbins Medals with the Apollo 11 Crew Patch. On the Robbins Medals, the eagle's talons are open, reflecting Apollo 11 astronaut Collins' original concept, which was eventually deemed to be too warlike. The crew patch shows the official Apollo 11 insignia, with eagle's talons grasping an olive branch. This design was ultimately adopted for reverse of the Eisenhower dollar in 1979, and was continued with the Susan B. Anthony Dollar in 1979.
CAG works directly with collectors, estates, artists and museums to preserve the authenticity and provenance of artifacts, memorabilia and estate items at the source. The Armstrong Family Collection, the first collection to be certified by CAG, represents one of the most historic and important collections of memorabilia of the last 50 years. The first of the items to be offered for auction will be part of a Heritage Auctions sale in November, the first of several by Heritage.
Philip Member
Posts: 5952 From: Brussels, Belgium Registered: Jan 2001
posted 08-14-2018 01:30 PM
This will certainly be an interesting auction catalog... if one will be printed?
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 08-15-2018 06:21 PM
Here is a look at the items on display at the World's Fair of Money in Philadelphia this week (photos credit: Asset Marketing Services):
Larry McGlynn Member
Posts: 1255 From: Boston, MA Registered: Jul 2003
posted 08-15-2018 06:46 PM
quote:Originally posted by MrSpace86: I don't think museums will be able to afford a lot of it.
The Armstrong family has been very generous to museums. They gave items to the Museum of Flight in Seattle. Mark is on the board there. The brothers gave a fragment of the Wright Bros prop and fabric to the Stafford Air & Space Museum. Rick has helped with the contribution of a substantial sum to the ASF. They have be very generous to the charities that they support.
Spaceflyer Member
Posts: 194 From: Nauheim, Germany Registered: Jan 2003
posted 08-16-2018 11:10 AM
I received as well a fragment of the Wright Bros prop and fabric from the Armstrong family for my exhibition "Apollo and Beyond" at the Technik Museum Speyer, Germany. We were the first museum who got those items when Rick visited my exhibition about two years ago. He presented the items to me during an anniversary event on July 20, 2016.
mjanovec Member
Posts: 3811 From: Midwest, USA Registered: Jul 2005
posted 08-17-2018 03:52 PM
quote:Originally posted by spaceflori: Plus nobody knows for sure what plastic does to the materials in the coming decades.
It's not accurate to say that "nobody knows what plastic does to materials." As long as they have used archival-grade plastics (such as polyester), there is plenty of evidence and research to show that those types of plastics will not damage items over the long run.
posted 09-27-2018 06:53 PM
Full Heritage auction now online. They really went overboard in my opinion slabbing stuff including patches, wooden nickels and other stuff.
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 09-27-2018 07:33 PM
The slabbing is the only provenance being offered that the item(s) came from the Armstrong Family Collection. Unless otherwise stated, there are no separate certificates or letters of authenticity.
denali414 Member
Posts: 593 From: Raleigh, NC Registered: Aug 2017
posted 09-28-2018 07:23 AM
Oh, I get why GAC slabbed all, as a marketing tool and hopefully an entry into doing this for a lot more of the space market. I'm just not certain both from a cost basis from seller and if investors even want to make this a viable market going forward.
Obviously Armstrong's cachet makes it worthwhile for items, but is the cost for most astronauts memorabilia to have their item slabbed worth that extra charge? We shall see...
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 09-28-2018 01:47 PM
The New York Times took note of the auction and interviewed Rick and Mark Armstrong.
As the 50th anniversary of Apollo 11 approaches, Rick and his brother Mark, 55, are auctioning about 3,000 belongings of their father, who died in 2012. In the process, they are revisiting their childhoods and the enduring legacy of their father as the first person to walk on the moon.
"I intellectually get it," Rick said. "But internally I'm not sure I will ever get it. It's sort of just my dad."
Ianhetho Member
Posts: 109 From: Bogangar NSW Australia Registered: May 2018
posted 09-29-2018 01:53 AM
Would anybody like to hazard a guess on what some of the cheaper items might go for? Or will the auction house offer an estimate?
Robert Pearlman Editor
Posts: 42988 From: Houston, TX Registered: Nov 1999
posted 10-01-2018 10:34 PM
NBC Nightly News video
In an interview with Lester Holt, Mark Armstrong gives an exclusive preview of his dad’s personal items to be auctioned off for charity, giving the public a chance to know more about the man who walked on the moon.
Hart Sastrowardoyo Member
Posts: 3445 From: Toms River, NJ Registered: Aug 2000
posted 10-02-2018 07:14 AM
quote:Originally posted by denali414: Obviously Armstrong's cachet makes it worthwhile for items, but is the cost for most astronauts memorabilia to have their item slabbed worth that extra charge? We shall see...
I'm surprised we haven't seen much slabbing before this, aside from what company does/would certify signed astronaut items similar to PSA? Think about it: Once it's slabbed, there's your guarantee it's authentic, and no fake signatures can be added.
But I'm also not surprised because unlike comic books and trading cards, for most signed space items you can't buy two of, one to get slabbed and one to hold and look and feel. I think space collecting is a bit more tactile.
That said, for most astronaut memorabilia, it's not worth it to get slabbed. Not with a "typical" signed shuttle astronaut portrait going for $20. Maybe for the more uncommon or limited-run signatures, or those who have the cachet of Armstrong.
I also think it would be interesting trying to slab some of the larger flown patch displays!
denali414 Member
Posts: 593 From: Raleigh, NC Registered: Aug 2017
posted 10-02-2018 08:22 AM
Also think it's a demand/supply issue. Unlike comic books or trading cards, much less demand and customer base to start. CAG to continue to make it a viable long term business in my opinion is going to need more consumers and product then currently is out there.
Unlike comic books or trading cards there is not a never ending supply of new material coming to market each month, nor a lot of new consumers wanting the product. Short term will be demand, but not sure about the long term prospects.
posted 10-02-2018 10:49 PM
To return for a moment to the items in the auction — I find it most intriguing that no Gemini 8 patches are included. This would be in keeping with my belief that only a handful were made (Dave Scott has said six). I wonder if the family has one?
NJSPACEFAN Member
Posts: 128 From: Ocala, FL USA Registered: Dec 2000
posted 10-11-2018 12:12 PM
Heritage's November space auction with the Armstrong family lots has posted the full listing along with the minimum prices. They start a very high prices.
Granted the uniqueness of many of the flown items is significant (e.g. Wright Brothers fabric and propeller segments) but all flown items are quite pricey, plus you must add the 25% premium. I honestly can't see them all selling and expect many passed lots during the auction.
There are just so many collectors with the deep pockets to absorb all of these, and in light that there will be two more auctions next year where the Armstrong family will consign their father's items.
thisismills Member
Posts: 263 From: Michigan Registered: Mar 2012
posted 10-11-2018 01:15 PM
I was also surprised by the high opening bids for the Wright Flyer fabric. Typically sections of this fabric (not flown to the moon) garner $5K to $15K at auction. Prices often depending on how well preserved the certificate is and if it was presented to someone notable.
Certainly there is a premium here for having additionally flown on Apollo 11, but I would have reasonably expected $5K to $10K opening bids instead of $20K+.
I don't doubt that all will sell, but instead am disappointed that many interested bidders have already been eliminated. It will be fascinating to see the magnitude of interest the flown items draw from collector bases other than Space.
rgarner Member
Posts: 1193 From: Shepperton, United Kingdom Registered: Mar 2012
posted 10-11-2018 02:13 PM
I believe HA are banking on the fact that the auction is well publicised and as a result will bring wealth from outside of the collecting community, which as stated, is limited in its buying capacity.
lunareagle Member
Posts: 587 From: Michigan Registered: Nov 1999
posted 10-12-2018 07:45 AM
While the Armstrong items do not have Neil's certification the non Armstrong items have the best certifications I have seen. Unbelievable selection of items.
Looks like bidding has begun. Good luck to all.
lunareagle Member
Posts: 587 From: Michigan Registered: Nov 1999
posted 10-13-2018 02:06 PM
What might not be universally known is that almost every astronaut who flew took jewelry into space and to the moon for their wives, mothers and friends. Given the strict weight restrictions on their PPKs jewelry made a lot of sense because items were small.
It is great to see the incredible pieces of custom jewelry, most of which went to the moon and some to the lunar surface, offered in this Heritage sale. This looks like a once-in-a-lifetime chance to assemble, at one time, a spectacular collection of these custom made pieces. Wow!
posted 05-11-2018 01:42 PM
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