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Author
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Topic: [Lunar Legacies] Space memorabilia (Mar 2016)
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Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 02-04-2016 02:01 PM
   
Lunar Legacies' Don Willis has announced their next space memorabilia auction. Just a quick note to let everyone know that the 19th Lunar Legacies Space Memorabilia Auction is scheduled for Saturday, March 12, 2016 and many of the auction lots (for preview purposes only) are now beginning to appear on LunarLegacies.com.
If anyone would like to consign to this auction, please email. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-03-2016 12:35 AM
From Lunar Legacies: The 19th Lunar Legacies Space Memorabilia Auction is set for Saturday, March 12, 2016 and will begin promptly at 9 a.m. Pacific Time.The auction and all its nearly 700 lots will be uploaded to invaluable.com no later than Thursday evening (March 3). It will also be available on eBay for bidding. A few photos are yet to be taken and most descriptions are not yet written, but all will be completed no later than this coming weekend. Apologies for the delay, but there were hundreds of last minute consignments. Highlights will include: - More great items from the personal collections of Walter Cunningham and Jack Lousma, including flown items and Apollo crew-signed photos.
- Many items from the personal collection of Shuttle astronaut Col. Robert Springer including his flight suits and many flown items.
- An Apollo 11 Flight Plan and an Apollo 11 Lunar Surface Procedures manual.
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Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-04-2016 10:41 AM
From Lunar Legacies: The uploading of the Lunar Legacies 19 auction to Invaluable, Auction Zip and eBay has been completed, and it is ready for viewing and pre-bidding. The live auction will begin promptly at 9 a.m. PST [1700 GMT] on Saturday, March 12, 2016. You must register at Invaluable to bid, but most of you have been automatically registered. There are many descriptions left to write and all should be completed by this coming weekend, but the bidding numbers are correct and you may pre-bid now if you so choose once you are registered. Mail-in bids are accepted so if you cannot be there live for the auction, please email with your list. Please also understand that all mail bids must be confirmed received. Highlights in this auction include: - Apollo 11 Lunar Surface Procedures Manual
- Apollo 11 Flight Plan
- Many Walter Cunningham items
- Many Jack Lousma items including Skylab and STS-3 training manuals
- Many Robert Springer items including flight suits and flown items
- Several STS-107 Columbia crew-signed items
...and much more - 674 lots total. |
bunnkwio
Member Posts: 113
From: Naperville, IL USA
Registered: Jul 2008
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posted 03-06-2016 12:57 PM
Many great items!! Hoping to get a couple of manuals!One item that I cannot be sure about is that another Ed Barker lunar surface flag is up for auction. The handwriting of the notarization is definitely different than the handwriting on the notarization from Hertiage Nov. 2015 auction, and cannot see the notarization page from the one in the December 2015 Goldberg auction. So there's at least 2 perfect condition silk flags that were apparently in Gene Cernan's suit pocket on the moon. |
Sam Que
Member Posts: 180
From: Chicago, IL, United States
Registered: Feb 2009
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posted 03-06-2016 03:36 PM
Just looking at lots 87-90. Looks to be cut out signatures of Mercury astronauts from the Bishop Mercury 7 signed litho. I assume the rest of the litho was so damaged that only the signatures were salvageable? Is cutting out signatures from artwork to sell something new? This litho was one of the first items I purchased and framed in my collection. |
Chuckster01
Member Posts: 873
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted 03-06-2016 04:59 PM
Not that new I have seen several cut signatures from the Gathering of Eagles art work on eBay. I also hope this was to salvage a damaged print. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-12-2016 10:00 AM
From Lunar Legacies: The auction will start in real-time, one lot at a time, at promptly 9:00 a.m. Pacific time today, Saturday, March 12, 2016 at invaluable and on eBay.Approximately 25 new lots were added on Friday at the last minute. Mail bids will take priority over live internet bids, since they were entered usually days before. Invoices will go out to all winning bidders no later than two days after the auction — lots of work to do to generate them! |
Kevin T. Randall
Member Posts: 1082
From: Chesham, Bucks UK
Registered: Dec 2008
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posted 03-12-2016 12:17 PM
The eBay part of this auction is not working. I have placed a bid via eBay yesterday but it has not registered. It says "no bids have been placed" yet on the website there are 6 bids on that lot, but none are mine.Up-date; eBay now says there was only one bid placed for $275.00, (the highest bid), there were no lower bids on lot #463. |
cycleroadie
Member Posts: 452
From: Apalachin, NY USA
Registered: May 2011
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posted 03-12-2016 12:21 PM
Some crazy prices on stuff so far!! |
vamanboatin
Member Posts: 214
From: Vienna, VA
Registered: Mar 2004
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posted 03-12-2016 02:54 PM
Is anybody else having trouble bidding on eBay from a home computer? Every time I bid the box goes grey until the next person bids and then it says I just missed it. |
fredtrav
Member Posts: 1673
From: Birmingham AL
Registered: Aug 2010
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posted 03-12-2016 07:09 PM
Bidding on Invaluable. What you are seeing is possibly someone has placed a prebid and it automatically bids up using the earlier bid. |
gareth89
Member Posts: 298
From: Ireland
Registered: May 2014
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posted 03-12-2016 07:13 PM
I've had the same issue, but when my original eBay bid was higher than the opening, it's registered. I still haven't won an auction though, prices are high!! |
gareth89
Member Posts: 298
From: Ireland
Registered: May 2014
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posted 03-12-2016 07:19 PM
Does anyone know how much lot 438D went for (flown teleprinter message from Bill Pogue)? |
fredtrav
Member Posts: 1673
From: Birmingham AL
Registered: Aug 2010
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posted 03-12-2016 10:57 PM
Looks like it went for $180 plus buyers premium. |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 2915
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 03-13-2016 06:00 AM
Yes, it did go for $180, but is gareth89 needing one of Pogue's flown teleprinter message recordings? The flown-used teleprinter paper had been placed onboard the SL-1 workshop station and remained there until Pogue's crew had returned back home. The uplinked messages on the heat-sensitive paper had been in space over 100 million miles after 4,300 orbits of the Earth! |
JBoe
Member Posts: 960
From: Churchton, MD
Registered: Oct 2012
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posted 03-13-2016 11:29 AM
So I was fortunate enough to have won an item, but haven't been able to pay yet. I won it via eBay, but no invoice has been generated and I've messaged Lunar Legacies. Also, I'm a little concerned that the in my eBay purchase it says pickup only even though the listing says to work that out with the seller. Any help would be great. Thanks again. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-13-2016 11:34 AM
As noted above, "Invoices will go out to all winning bidders no later than two days after the auction." It takes Lunar Legacies some time to generate them. |
JBoe
Member Posts: 960
From: Churchton, MD
Registered: Oct 2012
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posted 03-13-2016 11:36 AM
Thanks Robert, I didn't catch that. Has anyone paid for an item through eBay? |
gareth89
Member Posts: 298
From: Ireland
Registered: May 2014
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posted 03-13-2016 11:49 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Havekotte:
The uplinked messages on the heat-sensitive paper had been in space over 100 million miles after 4,300 orbits of the Earth!
Thanks guys. I already have one that I picked up on eBay last year (for under $50 if I remember correctly, I knew it was a bargain at the time!). I was just curious as to what the going rate for one of these pieces is. They really are a fantastic little piece of history! |
stsmithva
Member Posts: 1933
From: Fairfax, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 03-13-2016 02:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by gareth89:
They really are a fantastic little piece of history!
I know - and the one I bought from Boggs Spacebooks right after getting into space collecting ten years ago disappeared in my house days later. I've been looking for a decade now! Aaargh! |
SpaceFerris
Member Posts: 57
From: Thornville, OH
Registered: Mar 2015
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posted 03-14-2016 02:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
"Invoices will go out to all winning bidders no later than two days after the auction."
I too am waiting for an invoice that will include shipping and the auction fee. eBay will not allow payment. Very excited about winning seven signed shuttle crew photos! |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3120
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 03-14-2016 05:37 PM
The Apollo 11 Final Flight Plan (estimate: $1,000 - $1,500) went for $2,200. Does that mean that in three years my own copy has appreciated in value by 46%, or does it just mean that two collectors with more money than sense got into a bidding war? |
rgarner
Member Posts: 1193
From: Shepperton, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 03-15-2016 06:19 AM
Like most things, it depends on the buyer(s). What the value is and what can be achieved at or outside of auction are two very different things. I've seen some pieces estimated at $5000-$7500 go for $2500, and pieces estimated at $100 go for $1000. What you're relying on is having not one person with a desire for the piece, but two or more. Then it all depends on whom has the deepest pockets or whom is willing to pay the most. But to answer your question more directly, I think outside of an auction you would probably struggle to sell yours for the same price. But then I could be wrong. You might be lucky enough to find someone willing to pay that amount (or close to it). Luck is a big factor. Lucky that you're selling in the right area and lucky that the person interested finds it and has the money to buy it. I have always found auctions very hit and miss in this regard. |
schnappsicle
Member Posts: 396
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted 03-15-2016 07:45 AM
While browsing through the lots, I noticed that signed NASA glossy photos went for a huge premium over the astronaut's standard autographed photo. For instance, a Borman went for $950 (lot 228). A Bill Anders Apollo 8 crew litho went for $425 (lot 234), while the same glossy photo sold for $1,200 (lot 223). Buzz Aldrin on the ladder (lot 261) went for $900. Lastly a Apollo 17 Schmitt next to the flag photo (lot 378) signed by Schmitt & Cernan went for $2,800.Personally, I can't see spending $900 on a signed Borman or Aldrin, at least not without a significant quote from either. Does anyone have an idea as to why was there such a huge premium on those and other NASA glossy signed photos? All of the items in my examples went for a considerable amount above the estimated price. Personally, I thought the estimates were rather low compared to what I've seen similar items selling for over the past few years. The selling prices on some of the items I've referenced can be attributed to the fact that they came from Walt Cunningham's personal collection. I'm not sure that accounts for the entire amount over the estimated price or not. I think people put a premium on an item from an astronaut because it carries with it unquestionable proof of authenticity. Doesn't a photo of the astronaut signing the piece offer the same degree of proof and authenticity? I also think a signature on an official NASA glossy adds value, but I don't think it's that much either. How much does having a signature on an official NASA glossy add to the value of the piece? The reason I ask is because most of the NASA glossies I see are faded or color shifted in come unsightly way. The Schmitt photo (lot 378) is a prime example. If that photo had its original and proper color, I might see it going for that price, or something close to it, but the photo is faded and blue shifted. Whoever bought it will have an almost pure white photo in a few more years. I just can't see spending that kind of money on something that is damaged to that degree and will be worth very little in the future. To me, its the same as if it had a crease or tear in it or if it was cropped. A damaged photo is a damaged photo, regardless of the type of damage. Am I missing something? |
schnappsicle
Member Posts: 396
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted 03-15-2016 07:57 AM
I was looking at the items and noticed two Charles Conrad autographed photos that were essentially identical, but one (lot 304) sold for $70, while the other (lot 305) sold for $225. I think the 305 signature has better placement, but is it worth 3x more than the lower priced item? Would the tighter cropping on 305 have anything to do with the value of the item? Sorry for asking so many questions, but I'm trying to get an idea of what drives these prices. |
stsmithva
Member Posts: 1933
From: Fairfax, VA, USA
Registered: Feb 2007
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posted 03-15-2016 09:07 AM
I decided a while back to pretty much give up on finding logical reasons for unusual auction results. Many times I've seen items go for 1/3 what identical items (in the same auction or at least the same auction house two months earlier) go for, often with a difference of thousands of dollars. One time two or more bidders competed for it; the next time somehow only one bidder was interested. You just never know.I feel bad for auction houses trying to set estimates for items. If they sell for under the estimate, the consignor and others think that auction house can't get good results. If they sell for over the estimate, the buyer is going to feel like he got too enthusiastic and foolishly overpaid. I think they should just set higher opening bids to signify the quality, and let things happen from there. |
leslie
Member Posts: 231
From: Surrey, England
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 03-17-2016 03:35 AM
With reference to the posting regarding the price achieved for the Apollo 11 Final Flight plan I find such comments unnecessary, if not disrespectful, on a forum like this.What a buyer is prepared to pay for an item is his business only and to suggest a lack of common sense is offensive. Doubtless to say the buyer is delighted with his acquisition and the price paid merely reflects the current "market" in Space memorabilia. |
Chuckster01
Member Posts: 873
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: Jan 2014
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posted 03-17-2016 06:09 AM
I am sure there are instances where the thrill of a live auction will cause someone to over pay for an item. This is only of concern if the buyer plans on resale. Case in point, I purchased several John Young items a few years ago at auction. Although owned by the astronaut, they where not one of a kind. Now the same items are being sold for substantially less through another seller. I do not regret my purchases, but I did pay too much. |
Jurg Bolli
Member Posts: 977
From: Albuquerque, NM
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 03-17-2016 10:12 AM
I agree with Steve (stsmithva), I have given up trying to find reasons for some prices. And I agree with Leslie that what a collector is willing to pay is simply his/her choice. While I myself shook my head more than once while observing the latest Lunar Legacies auction I do not have the right to questions others' motives to pay a certain amount. |
rgarner
Member Posts: 1193
From: Shepperton, United Kingdom
Registered: Mar 2012
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posted 03-17-2016 10:22 AM
Bottom line, I think something is worth what someone is willing to pay for it, no more, no less. The only thing we should care about is how much we're willing to pay, everything else is a non-issue. |
schnappsicle
Member Posts: 396
From: Houston, TX, USA
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted 03-17-2016 02:03 PM
I can't speak for other collectors, but as for me, I always pay attention to the prices people pay for items that are similar in my own collection. I basically collect autographed photos. Auction prices help set the market price (value) of the many items. I'm not necessarily looking to sell anything, but I want to know what my photos are worth in case I lose my job and am forced to sell. While auctions aren't the only factor in determining market prices, they are a fair indication of trends in the hobby. For instance, I noticed that most of the beta patches sold for less than the estimated price, some of them less than even the low end. That tells me that betas are on their way down, at least for now.Things go up as well. On more than one occasion, I've had to pay more than I budgeted for in order to get the item I want for my collection. I don't mind paying a little extra to see it hanging on my wall. It's all worth it to me. Of course I wish I could have gotten it for a lower price, but that's what auctions are for; getting the highest price possible. I've also let things go that I really wanted just to get it even cheaper later down the road. For instance, I once bid over $700 for a Ted Freeman autographed photo only to be outbid. A year later, the same photo went up for auction again and I paid less than $400 for it. If people let things go, they'll find out that prices go up and down constantly. You may have to wait a while, but with any luck, you'll get what you want at a price you're willing to pay. |
neo1022
Member Posts: 281
From: Santa Monica, CA
Registered: Jun 2013
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posted 03-17-2016 08:21 PM
Given the wide variance in hammer prices for space-related items, which, as many of you have noted, are based on a number of factors (most crucially the number of interested bidders in one auction versus another), it seems the best way to determine "value" would be to average closing prices for similar items within a fixed time-span (say, the past three years). And even then, these should be considered "full retail" or "insurance value" — the highest price someone will pay for an item, in competition with other similarly interested parties. As many of you know, in many cases bidders seem woefully unaware of the actual value and availability of these items, in other words, they don't really know the "primary" market for space items, the one many of us participate in. I've seen many "collectible" items that are currently available through well-known commercial outlets or collectors sell for double or triple their current price at auction. Witness the ASF lucites: the Apollo 13 couch fabric lucite has sold for about $750 at auction; but if you know the primary market, you'd know you could simply buy it from ASF for a fraction of the price (or find someone on cS who has an extra they want to part with). Same with signed photos, and even some flown items, which sell for much less on the "primary" market than on the "secondary" auction market. Of course, astronaut-consigned and unique items are different, since these are unique items with unique provenances, their highest current value can only be determined through the price people will pay at competitive auction. Indeed, the trend toward generally higher prices for flown items and period manuals/documents seems indisputable, and a good sign of both desire and relative scarcity. Given all this, auction hammer prices, at least in some cases, should be regarded with caution. "Value" for many items is determined by buyers who have more money than knowledge. Not a great way to establish fair market value... And as most of us know, nothing on this board sells at auction retail — and aren't we the real "primary" market for these items, when all is said and done? |
sobof62
Member Posts: 94
From: Plymouth, Devon, United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 03-22-2016 04:50 PM
Can Don or Jan come back to me regarding an item I purchased from the latest auction? I have emailed and phoned a number of times without any luck. Please email me at nigelsnell@googlemail.com. Many thanks. |
Altidude
Member Posts: 57
From:
Registered: Jan 2016
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posted 03-22-2016 08:00 PM
I don't know if that is a fair assessment. I can understand someone thinking the value of an item is only what the current experts believe, but sometimes that is not the case. I have purchased quite a few items two and three times their "high estimate" because I felt they were rarer than people thought. In fact, I have two similar items in the RR auction that are estimated well over $20K, but when I purchased them $1500 was thought to be outlandish. On the other hand, I still kick myself on some of the items I lost even four times their estimate. Time only tells who is right. In any case, I think that we all collect because we enjoy it. For many of us it is not a business proposition and if the item falls in value, so be it. Second point, I am not sure if the members of this site are as much the primary market as you think. I stopped visiting this site around 10 years ago, but just started back again over the last couple of years. I didn't stop collecting, however. This is not to diminish this site as it is a great resource and a source of enjoyment, but I am sure that I am not the only one who has done this. In any case, the estimates are just that, guidelines for people not very familiar with relative values for the present time. |
BMckay
Member Posts: 3220
From: MA, USA
Registered: Sep 2002
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posted 03-23-2016 11:54 AM
quote:
Originally posted by sobof62:
I have emailed and phoned a number of times without any luck.
They must be really busy. I have yet to hear back after three emails. |
neo1022
Member Posts: 281
From: Santa Monica, CA
Registered: Jun 2013
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posted 03-24-2016 01:45 AM
No problem here. Emails were answered both before and after the auction, and my invoice was emailed to me within 3 days of close... |
phivosh
Member Posts: 34
From: Nicosia, Cyprus
Registered: Sep 2015
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posted 03-24-2016 03:37 AM
What came as a huge surprise to me was the price that Lot 193: Apollo 1 Fire Postmarked Cover fetched, which sold for $140. That is huge for a postal cover that is unsigned and seems to be available in abundance on eBay and elsewhere, do you not think? |
albatron
Member Posts: 2732
From: Stuart, Florida
Registered: Jun 2000
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posted 03-24-2016 12:35 PM
An interesting and insightful point about the NASA glossies, yet I watched an Al Worden signed NASA glossy from the Guenter Wendt collection go unsold.There really is no rhyme or reason at times. |
sobof62
Member Posts: 94
From: Plymouth, Devon, United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2010
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posted 03-25-2016 11:16 AM
I have made contact with Donnis on March 24th. He confirms he is very busy. |
JBoe
Member Posts: 960
From: Churchton, MD
Registered: Oct 2012
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posted 03-25-2016 04:07 PM
I received an email from Don today verifying receipt of my package and I took a moment to write back about my experience. I did mention the considerable time delay in placing and registering bids through eBay. This of course is something I'm sure he doesn't have any control over. Not bad for my second online auction ever! |
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