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Author
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Topic: Heritage Galleries November 2010 auction
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Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 08-14-2010 11:14 AM
   
The next Heritage Auction Galleries' Space Exploration auction in Dallas, Texas, is scheduled for Oct. 19, 2010 Nov. 6, 2010 Nov. 17, 2010. |
dwighteaves
New Member Posts:
From:
Registered:
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posted 08-14-2010 11:16 AM
One of my flown Apollo 12 gold lapel pins that I listed here (under Buy, Sell, Trade) a few months back will be in Heritage's space auction #6045 on Oct. 19 2010. They are giving it a pre-auction estimate of $5,000 to $7,000. |
Larry McGlynn
Member Posts: 1255
From: Boston, MA
Registered: Jul 2003
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posted 08-14-2010 01:24 PM
That is if Heritage holds the auction. Right now they do not have enough lots to run a separate auction. They are thinking about adding the lots that they have to the Americana auction that is scheduled for three weeks later. |
benguttery
Member Posts: 547
From: Fort Worth, TX, USA
Registered: Feb 2005
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posted 08-15-2010 04:37 PM
Heritage is very choosy about what they accept. I offered them four different Gemini mission patches which they declined to sell because they were not valuable enough. So, I sold them directly to the next collector(s) to have them without the middleman. That was OK too. |
DCCollector
Member Posts: 227
From: Washington, DC USA
Registered: Dec 2006
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posted 09-08-2010 07:08 PM
Interesting that Heritage re-scheduled the auction to fall in the middle of the ASF autograph show. I wonder if that will impact the audience for the auction. |
capoetc
Member Posts: 2169
From: McKinney TX (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 09-09-2010 08:36 AM
quote:
Originally posted by DCCollector:
I wonder if that will impact the audience for the auction.
Unless they plan on a live simulcast from KSC, then one would think that date is somewhat less than optimal... |
NJSPACEFAN
Member Posts: 128
From: Ocala, FL USA
Registered: Dec 2000
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posted 09-09-2010 10:19 AM
Very poor planning. First the previews of the auction usually has one or more of the consigning astronauts the evening before the auction - and virtually all the astronauts who usually consign will be at the ASF show. Second - the auction is scheduled for the Saturday (always done in the afternoon) during the lectures by the astronauts and autograph show - both at KSC. Now if they expect attendees to bid - who wants to bring laptop computers into KSC to bid - or stand in line for autographs or attend a lecture with their cell phones at the ready for bidding. I hope they reschedule. Presently only show 8 minor items for auction - 7 to 8 weeks before an auction they have a whole lot more in the "browse auction" section. |
gliderpilotuk
Member Posts: 3398
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 10-06-2010 09:44 AM
Relax! According to the Heritage website the auction seems scheduled for Nov 17. |
j0s9
Member Posts: 140
From: Clinton, MA, USA
Registered: Oct 2009
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posted 10-28-2010 05:53 PM
Online catalog is now available for anyone interested on November's auction. |
gliderpilotuk
Member Posts: 3398
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 10-29-2010 03:30 AM
Has anyone received a hard copy catalogue yet? |
lunareagle
Member Posts: 587
From: Michigan
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-31-2010 05:49 PM
On-line bidding has begun. The number of in-person attendees is normally very, very small as most bidders opt for on-line bidding. And, as witnessed by many who participate, it is normally best to have your (secret) maximum bids placed in advance, just in case of Internet problems, etc. so as not to be disappointed. The overlap with the ASF show is not an issue. |
Spacehardware
Member Posts: 125
From: Durley
Registered: Jan 2008
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posted 11-08-2010 03:37 PM
I have lusted after the A7L training ITMG ever since I saw it listed in the 1993 Superior catalogue (unfortunately some four years after it had been sold...). I was thrilled to see it again in this year's Heritage auction, but I am now very confused (not difficult...). I understand this is a training version, so I understand the lack of a chromel R patch on the reverse, but otherwise I have always assumed it was the pattern as used on all the early Apollo missions, even down to the 'sausage' flap on which is usually sewn the NASA meatball and mission badge as seen on all the WSS crew photos. But it differs considerably from the flown versions in many ways - there is no sausage flap on the final version, these arms are one piece, the front openings are huge and not for individual fittings, there is no ring of poppers/Velcro on the chest etc. etc. Can anyone throw more light on where this ITMG fits in the A7L chronology? Could you point me towards any photos showing it being used? Thanks for all! |
spaced out
Member Posts: 3110
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 11-08-2010 03:51 PM
The 1967 manufacture date and 003 serial number of this garment make it a very early model, pre-dating the Apollo 7 prime and backup crew suits.Isn't it possible that this is Irwin's LTA-8 suit? The design is certainly (to my untrained eye) a perfect match for the suit he's wearing in photos from LTA-8, e.g. those on this page. In particular check out this photo. Every detail of Irwin's suit seems to match as far as I can see. |
j0s9
Member Posts: 140
From: Clinton, MA, USA
Registered: Oct 2009
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posted 11-08-2010 04:30 PM
A similar suit like lot 41185 (Apollo-Era Toxic Fuel Handler's Coveralls), was sold on Proxybid in September by Prime Time Auctions. It was sold for $791 (including internet buyer's premium). I do think is a different one since the line in the middle of the helmet was yellow, not white as the one shown on this auction. |
Spacehardware
Member Posts: 125
From: Durley
Registered: Jan 2008
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posted 11-09-2010 12:14 PM
Thanks for the info. - great pictures and a a good eye for detail! Seems there is also another later variant of the ITMG that is worn in the white spacesuit crew photos before the final mission version, presumably all labelled A7L in one form or another. Just goes to show that there is still room for a complete reference work on the Apollo lunar suit despite some stirling efforts to date. I live and learn! |
lunareagle
Member Posts: 587
From: Michigan
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-16-2010 07:42 AM
On-line bidding will close this evening for tomorrow's sale. I always recommend placing your secret maximum bids on items that you really would want just in case you are not available to bid live or in case of mechanical failures (phone, Internet, etc.) Best of luck to all - (Heritage does offer financing as well so read up on the terms on their site.) |
Peter Kemp
Member Posts: 91
From: Chelmsford, Essex, United Kingdom
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 11-17-2010 04:47 AM
Following on from gliderpilotuk's post on 29th October did any forum members in the UK or Europe ever receive a hard copy catalogue for today's Heritage auction?In the past I've always ordered a copy online at a cost of $75 including shipping not only for the particular auction but for future reference. Recently as a past bidder I suppose (not always the successful winner) a complimentary copy would arrive. For this auction I didn't buy my own copy and so far no hard copy catalogue. Perhaps they strike you off the mailing list if you don't place business with them as a high bidder at every auction? The hard copies now appear to be unavailable to order. |
mmmoo
Member Posts: 551
From: London, England
Registered: May 2001
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posted 11-17-2010 05:21 AM
I got my free hard copy in the UK about two or three weeks ago. I have been a high bidder in the last three auctions. |
Peter Kemp
Member Posts: 91
From: Chelmsford, Essex, United Kingdom
Registered: Jul 2002
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posted 11-17-2010 06:45 AM
Thank you Mike. That probably explains it. I've been bidding on lots in their space auctions since 2008 but have always been outbid. I've had better high bidding success with other houses and still receive a complimentary catalogue from them. |
JBWSpace
Member Posts: 60
From: San Diego, Ca, USA
Registered: Nov 2010
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posted 11-17-2010 11:59 AM
I just lost the best pieces of my families collection at the Heritage auction and am appalled. I will pay any winning bidder double their cost to get the items back into the collection.Sincerely, Robert Wilken
Executor of
Jerald B. Wilken Space Collection |
gliderpilotuk
Member Posts: 3398
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 11-17-2010 02:56 PM
"Lost" - you mean they didn't achieve reasonable prices?
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rchappel
Member Posts: 108
From: Texas
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 11-17-2010 04:15 PM
Which lots are you referring to? |
andrewcli
Member Posts: 328
From: La Jolla, CA, USA
Registered: Jul 2007
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posted 11-17-2010 04:33 PM
I believe he is referring to lots 41051-41054 - Apollo 8 foils.Several of them were sold for around $300. I think we wants them back so that he can cut them up and sell them on eBay, which he has done in the past. |
fredtrav
Member Posts: 1673
From: Birmingham AL
Registered: Aug 2010
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posted 11-17-2010 05:17 PM
How did you lose them? Did you consign them to Heritage and not get what you think they were worth? Did someone take them without your knowledge and consign them? Were they outright stolen? If so have you filed a police report? |
Spacefest
Member Posts: 1168
From: Tucson, AZ
Registered: Jan 2009
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posted 11-17-2010 06:23 PM
This is interesting |
JBWSpace
Member Posts: 60
From: San Diego, Ca, USA
Registered: Nov 2010
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posted 11-21-2010 08:16 PM
Heritage lied, said they were going to do a write up on my father's work at NAR to help authenticate the flown pieces to the buyers. They didn't do a thing. I sent them his certificates and North American Rockwell photos of him working on the projects and they did not do the write up or show any evidence that he was the main post flight test conductor. They also were not supposed to photo the artifacts in the bags I put them in or group them together, they did not show me the descriptions of the artifacts before posting or before they sent the proofs to the printers of the catalog, and even spelled our last name wrong. They didn't want me to write letters of authenticity either and kept telling me they would take care of everything. We lost some extremely rare pieces to low bids such as a Inner Ablator of the Astro Sextant that was supposed to be paired with the gold mylar they show only one side of (does anybody else own a piece of the Astro sextant)? You so called experts may doubt these are genuine pieces of spacecraft, BUT THEY ARE! We will never again trust them to an auction house without a reserve. I had the command module prototype handle sold for $8000 to a private buyer but thought it would sell over 15k. I had them remove the 5 lots that did not sell right after the auction. We would have made a lot more money selling the items on eBay. Yes we got ripped off! So I am filling this report with the space community. |
capoetc
Member Posts: 2169
From: McKinney TX (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 11-21-2010 08:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by JBWSpace:
Heritage lied... Yes we got ripped off! So I am filling this report with the space community.
Out of curiosity, was there an option to place a reserve price which, failing to have reached that price, would have resulted in you being able to retain the items? I thought all auction houses had a reserve price option... |
Greggy_D
Member Posts: 977
From: Michigan
Registered: Jul 2006
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posted 11-21-2010 08:50 PM
A question for you Mr. Wilken...Did you contact Heritage after you saw the printed catalogs or after you saw how the items were presented on their auction webpage? In other words, did you voice complaints to Heritage before the auction began? We're just all trying to get a complete picture here. |
spaceflori
Member Posts: 1499
From: Germany
Registered: May 2000
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posted 11-22-2010 11:41 AM
quote:
Originally posted by JBWSpace:
We lost some extremely rare pieces to low bids such as a Inner Ablator of the Astro Sextant that was supposed to be paired with the gold mylar they show only one side of
Without knowing the background I still don't get this... why did you lose something?It was your decision to consign these to Heritage (and I'm not speaking on their behalf). I can speak out of my own experiences as I was also disappointed with some consignments I made to them and other auction houses in the past - but such is life! Market determine the prices and I don't think the catalog misrepresented the pieces just by the description which sounded okay to me. I'm a space dealer and I'm getting lots of offers every week - most I never hear back just to learn they have been consigned to an auction house later where often I bought them later at a lower price than I thought. When do collectors realize that auction houses are not always the cash machine they are considering them to be... Rule by thumb - if you got something special like a Rembrandt painting, a Neil Armstrong quote "One small step" or a special flown item - consign! For anything else eBay and other dealers are often the better way and you have your money much faster. |
spaced out
Member Posts: 3110
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 11-22-2010 12:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by JBWSpace:
I had the command module prototype handle sold for $8000 to a private buyer but thought it would sell over 15k.
It's an interesting historical item but having watched NASA equipment and prototypes of all kinds sell at auction over many years, $8000 seems like a reasonable (and even quite high) price to me for this particular piece. |
andrewcli
Member Posts: 328
From: La Jolla, CA, USA
Registered: Jul 2007
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posted 11-22-2010 01:44 PM
For what it's worth, a CM hand controller assembly, Lot #41162, from Mr. Wilken's collection did sell for $4182.50 (w/BP).In the description it reads: "Apollo Program: Early Prototype of the Command Module Hand Controller Assembly. From the collection of a Rockwell engineer working in the early Apollo era, here is an amazing piece of moon flight history..." |
spaced out
Member Posts: 3110
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 11-22-2010 03:51 PM
I guess I misunderstood what he was saying then. Does he mean someone wanted to buy it from him for $8k, but he thought it should be work $15k so put in in the HA sale, at which point it sold for $4k? |
JBWSpace
Member Posts: 60
From: San Diego, Ca, USA
Registered: Nov 2010
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posted 11-22-2010 04:10 PM
I do take the blame! But Heritage did not deliver what they promised. We only put the items up for sale to get out of the debts occurred this last year from a bad traffic accident that ruptured a disk in my neck. I am sure it was quite evident that the Apollo heat shield fragment was a very ablated ablator plug from the aft heatshield, that was favored by my father who kept it in a clear top jewel box on or around his desk. The handle was always on a shelf or the bench in his garage. After I found out that they misdescribed the items (they told me that they worked with experts who would properly write descriptions) I got some help from Scott Schneeweis and sent them complete descriptions, which they posted on the website but never added photos of source bags inscribed by my father or posted any information about him. I post North American Rockwell photos of my father when I sell items on eBay and hoped that enough folks from the space community would be more familiar with the Wilken name but was wrong about that also. The Kapton Foil was the least valuable to us of the items listed and are glad we will get back 5 of the 10 lots. |
JBWSpace
Member Posts: 60
From: San Diego, Ca, USA
Registered: Nov 2010
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posted 11-22-2010 04:32 PM
quote:
Originally posted by spaced out:
I guess I misunderstood what he was saying then. Does he mean someone wanted to buy it from him for $8k, but he thought it should be work $15k so put in in the HA sale, at which point it sold for $4k?
Yes. I tried to pull pieces out of the auction after seeing how bad of a job they did but they refused and never offered that we put a reserve on any lots.
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capoetc
Member Posts: 2169
From: McKinney TX (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 11-22-2010 06:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by JBWSpace:
...never offered that we put a reserve on any lots.
Huh. Weird. I don't think I would ever consider consigning high value items to an auction house without a reserve -- stuff can happen (technical and otherwise) that cause lots to hammer for far less than their value, so one needs to protect oneself.Heritage's FAQ would seem to indicate that sellers can set reserve prices for items... Sorry to hear that you had a bad experience though. |
JBWSpace
Member Posts: 60
From: San Diego, Ca, USA
Registered: Nov 2010
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posted 11-22-2010 09:59 PM
I wish I would have asked for advice from collectSPACE members a long time ago. Astronauts trust pieces from their collection to Heritage and never imagined it would go so bad. I'm done crying and will be content creating my displays so that I can share my wealth of flown artifact with space exploration enthusiasts around the world. |
crl848
Member Posts: 10
From: London, UK
Registered: Nov 2010
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posted 11-24-2010 09:32 AM
I wondered if anyone knows the origin of the FDAI in the Heritage auction. I bought one similar off ebay a few years back - a little cheaper than the high bid here! - and assumed it was from a simulator as it is not round like the units I have seen fitted to the spacecraft. Does anyone have any insight? |
SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 4437
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-24-2010 09:57 AM
It was only a Block I CM variant (Heritage conveniently excluded that from the description). |
crl848
Member Posts: 10
From: London, UK
Registered: Nov 2010
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posted 11-24-2010 02:40 PM
Thanks. Would that make it more or less valuable than the round kind? |
SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 4437
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-24-2010 03:11 PM
More valuable to whom? I personally can't imagine a Block I artifact would be more desirable then its Block II counterpart (which was the configuration actually used during the manned program). It's possible there are folks who go gaga for Block I components but I think it more likely the two or more bidders who pursued this FDAI were either using illicit substances, had no clue what they were after or to much money burning a hole in their pocket. All the more baffling since a Block II FDAI offered just this past Spring at Bonhams didn't even meet its reserve. |
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