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Author
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Topic: RR Auction August 2009 auction
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Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 2915
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 08-11-2009 10:45 AM
   
With not too much time before the current R&R auction closes, I just came across one of their space lots that needs to be addressed. Lot #478/TLS is a classic John Glenn autopen when he was a senator. During his US Senate career, Glenn had used at least 2 known autopen patterns, of which, this was the more frequently used one. I don't know if Scott/RR/etc. missed this one, but it does indicate that it comes with a pre-certified Cornish and RR Auction COA! I believe some bids have already been placed on it. |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 08-11-2009 10:46 AM
Someone alerted me to this thread. Ken, are you sure this is an autopen? I checked it again and it does not seem (to my eye) to match any of Glenn's 4 published (at least the 4 of which I am aware) autopen patterns, seen on Chris' website.I could be wrong of course, but significant differences to my eye seem to be present (for example the "o" and "G") which paper movement, etc would not explain (in my opinion). What do others think? I definitely would not want an autopen (described as genuine) to be in the auction. 
Click to enlarge. |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 2915
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 08-11-2009 11:32 AM
The autopen pattern, size, ink color, etc. are all the same with a known Glenn AP that his Senate office used on mostly small b/w photos, office-chamber passes, and letters as depicted here. Note the starting off "line" with the "G" of the last name along with the circular formations. I have 2 of the small Senate photos, and a few letters here somewhere, all with the same pattern as this. It might be an unknown AP in some of the early autopen publications as I believe his office first starting using it throughout the 1980s as my records indicate. In my mind, Scott, there is no question about it and I'll try to include some copies for your references. |
mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 08-11-2009 12:29 PM
If this is an autopen, it's interesting that it has never appeared on any of the sites (that I've seen, at least) that show astronaut autopens. If Scott missed identifying an unpublished autopen pattern, I think that's quite understandable.If there is evidence to verify this signature as an autopen, I would encourage those with similar examples to also share them with Chris Spain and others who maintain autopen databases...so knowledge of this pattern becomes more well known among the collecting community. |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 08-11-2009 12:41 PM
Ken, I'm not sure what you mean by the "starting off 'line' with the 'G'". Do you mean the line appears "shaky"? The apparent "shakiness" I believe is not really shakiness but rather an effect caused by the interaction of the felt tip pen with textured paper. At any rate, what will solve this is a matching pattern. If someone has a matching pattern please post it (or a link to it) here and I will stand very corrected. Thanks. |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 2915
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 08-11-2009 01:23 PM
Scott--After seeing the enlargement here, I am still convinced this is an AP not listed in either Chris' website nor in the German Gode and Vaughan/Gutzke publications. I'll have someone make a scan and post it here (perhaps Bob can do that for me). I didn't know it wasn't listed beforehand in any of the above-mentioned autopen guides. I've known about this pattern for a long time and have seen it before (and also own a few samples in my Glenn binder collection), but only on Senate-related promotional materials and once in a blue moon, on a letter like this with the same letterhead--but--this letter is dated in 1976! Most of the ones I have seen are from the early 80s. I promise to get a scan so that we can see what everyone else thinks. |
Bob M
Member Posts: 1746
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 08-11-2009 01:48 PM
Ken, I'll be glad to post an example for you here of any autopen pattern that is believed to match the R&R Glenn. Chris' Autopen directory is of great use and greatly appreciated by us collectors and is by far the most complete and up-to-date Autopen reference available. Ken mentioned the Goede and the Vaughan/Gutzke autopen guides. These should be considered out-of-date (but still useful), as the Goede guide was published in 1980 - or earlier - and the V/G guide in 1989. Certainly many autopen patterns have been discovered since those came out. |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 08-11-2009 03:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Havekotte:
I promise to get a scan so that we can see what everyone else thinks.
Thanks Ken! |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 08-12-2009 07:02 PM
Update: The item has been withdrawn pending further review to determine whether it is or is not an autopen. |
Bob M
Member Posts: 1746
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 08-18-2009 03:42 PM
I've received Ken's photocopies and have now posted a scan of one of his several John Glenn autopens he sent copies of. As can be easily seen, Ken's John Glenn autopen example (at bottom) perfectly matches the example that was in the R&R auction (at top). We now have a 5th John Glenn Autopen pattern (BTW, these two examples are shown at different scales).  |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 08-18-2009 04:06 PM
Good to know. Thanks Ken and Bob.Scott
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spaced out
Member Posts: 3110
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 08-18-2009 05:17 PM
Just back from a vacation so I've missed all this discussion.Glenn's Autopens are an unusual case. With most early astronauts their Autopen examples are relatively commonplace so over time you are pretty certain to see all the patterns used by NASA. In Glenn's case however he has always been a generous signer which means you see his Autopen signatures very rarely. I've personally seen next to no Autopen examples of his which means the AP page for Glenn on my site is really a work in progress. Anyway, thanks to the efforts of the CS community it looks like a definite AP pattern has been identified here and I'll add it to the site shortly. |
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