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  [Guernsey's] Naylor collection Oct. 2007 auction

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Author Topic:   [Guernsey's] Naylor collection Oct. 2007 auction
Ken Havekotte
Member

Posts: 1957
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 10-09-2007 07:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Did anyone see The Naylor Collection auction offerings from Guernsey's in New York?

One lot advertises the Hasselblad camera that Armstrong used to photograph Aldrin on the moon along with a NASA "worm" cap that was said to have flown on an Apollo lunar mission! Wrong!!!

Another lot highlights a large American flag that was, if I am not mistaken, flown to the moon by Shepard on Apollo 14. The flag lot also mentions that "tire marks" from the lunar roving vehicle can be seen on the surface of the U.S. flag! What??? LRV-1, 2, and 3 were used by the Apollo 15, 16, and 17 lunar crews -- not 14 -- which only used a 2-wheel non-powered cart vehicle.

Estimated value for each of the lots was between $100 and $1,000,000!!! Oh boy!

Has anyone seen these and perhaps there are other lots that I am not yet aware of. There is a NASA letter with the flown Apollo 14 flag, however, I wasn't able to see a better scan of the letter contents.

Leon Ford
Member

Posts: 309
From: Shreveport, LA, United States
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 10-09-2007 07:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Leon Ford   Click Here to Email Leon Ford     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Thank you sooo much for letting us know about this auction. I would have missed it. I got to get that Hasselblad. I hope $75 will get it. Maybe $73.50. As long as Larry McGlynn doesn't see this stuff, I have a chance!!

Ken Havekotte
Member

Posts: 1957
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001

posted 10-09-2007 09:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ken Havekotte   Click Here to Email Ken Havekotte     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In all fairness to Guernsey's description of the Hasselblad camera lot, just perhaps (huh), the writeup was only referring to a replica of the same-type camera used on the moon by Armstrong? While it certainly doesn't come across that way, especially with the supplement "flown" lunar ballcap that couldn't have existed at the time of the lunar landings, how do you and others read this?

If anyone could get a better/clearer copy/scan of the NASA letter in reference to the Apollo 14/Shepard lunar flag, I would love to see it for personal reasons.

Another lot, I believe, features a flown Apollo 11 lunar flag — however — there appears to be no letter from Aldrin (?) and/or an appropriate certification from anyone else. Even the format of how the flag was presented, etc. appears to be way off.

dsenechal
Member

Posts: 409
From:
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 10-09-2007 09:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dsenechal   Click Here to Email dsenechal     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And, if you think the item descriptions are bad, take a look at the feedback. And if you think the feedback's bad, take a look at the feedback that's been mutually withdrawn. Goodness!

It's a shame, really, though, because Jack Naylor is a legendary camera collector, with one of the largest and comprehensive collections in the world (Google for more info). Evidently, Mr. Naylor thought he had the real thing, or maybe he sort of forgot (he's almost 90). I just hope he didn't pay too much for that Hasselblad, though. If you look really, really close, you'll see that the name plate says 500EL/M, which places it at or later than 1972. At least it's older than that cap.

DCCollector
Member

Posts: 202
From: Washington, DC USA
Registered: Dec 2006

posted 10-18-2007 11:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for DCCollector   Click Here to Email DCCollector     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ken -- my reaction exactly when I read about the Apollo 14 flag's "post marks from the moon."

What about these lots:

  • 320168583907 - Print signed by the Apollo 11 crew.
  • 320168583900 - Panorama print from "Apollo 17" (didn't look like Apollo 17 to me?)

spaced out
Member

Posts: 2685
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 10-18-2007 01:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As Dave points out he seller has the worst feedback I've ever seen. Even the positive feedback is actually negative if you read it!

Here's some choice extracts from the last year or so:

  • 83 days later, items still not received. SEND MY ITEMS OR GIVE ME A REFUND!!!!!!

  • Very dissapointed. This item should not have been in the auction. A JOKE!

  • In over 3000 transactions, this is simply the worst company we have delt with!

  • Impossible to communicate with, very unprofessional have very bad rating, beware

  • ONLY RECEIVED 2 OF 3 ITEMS PICTURED>> SELLER TOOK NO REPONSIBILITY TO CORRECT!!

  • NEVER AGAIN !! OUTRAGEOUS SHIPPING CHARGES !! $295.00 TO SHIP 12 LBS ??

  • PAID $4166 FOR 3 ITEMS AND RECEIVED NOTHING! LEGAL CLAIM FILED ON 2-23-07!

  • Ship optns for 13"x17" frame: $360 or $90 for me to PU!! PU incld $20 insurance!

  • Shipping overcharge $357 for one item...

  • Recommended shipper was horrible, over-charged.

  • Item had flaws not disclosed. Recommended shipper was horrible, over-charged.

  • If you EVER had a problem with Guernseys OR White Glove Trans, PLEASE CONTACT ME

  • AVOID THIS SELLER!! PAID $4166 FOR 3 ITEMS AND REC'D NOTHING! SEE YOU IN COURT!

  • BEWARE THE SHIPPING IS A RIP OFF I HAVE CONTACTED NYS ATTORNEY GENERAL

  • Charged $110 for poor pack job that should have cost $20 poor list info on ebay

  • They want to charge me $170.00 for shipping a f-ing sweatshirt $170.00 !!!!!!

  • Won't deal with again/spent $12k/BAD shipper HIGH $$ to ship/pick up/also broken

  • worst service /49 days to ship/shipping$350.00 for a 5lb $175.00 item/

  • There shipping company tried to charge me an extra $135 for shipping the product

  • $120 in fees 20% fine, $90 fees to pick it- up fine, $390 to ship I feel sick

  • Did NOT get item. Paid $600.00. Someone stolen #718 Paul Cartney KHJ Award!!!!!!

  • Contacted immediately, I did not bid this amount. They raised my bid w/o consent

  • $295 to ship 30 miles or $160 if I pick up. Was quoted "small" fee for pickup.

  • I'M VERY UPSET! Spent thousands of dollars, did not receive one expensive item.

  • Over $600 in extra "fees" for these monkeys to ship - never use again

  • CRAZY $155 BUCKS FOR SHIPPING A SMALL SATIN JACKET,PAID PREMIUM & $350 JACKET

  • AVOID F SHIPPING CHARGES TOO HIGH, VERY RUDE GIVES RUN AROUND

  • Never again $225 delivery charge for a 2lb item that cost $125.00 Beware Buyers
It's clear from reading this that your invoice will include an outrageous shipping quotation (likely $300 to $400) from a company called "White Glove" which is very likely the seller himself.

The seller points out that you do have other shipping options, which appears to be that you can pick it up yourself or arrange for UPS to pick it up. Even if you do choose this option you will be charged $90 to $160 for it, regardless of the value of the item.

Incredible stuff!

mmmoo
Member

Posts: 432
From: London, England
Registered: May 2001

posted 10-18-2007 06:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mmmoo   Click Here to Email mmmoo     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This lot is not a panorama from Apollo 17. It is from Apollo 14.

gliderpilotuk
Member

Posts: 3153
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002

posted 10-19-2007 05:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for gliderpilotuk   Click Here to Email gliderpilotuk     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Plus you have the pleasure of paying a 20% premium for live bidding.

spaced out
Member

Posts: 2685
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003

posted 10-19-2007 05:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for spaced out   Click Here to Email spaced out     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The buyer's premium is 22%.

To bid in the auction you would have to accept their terms and conditions. People make the assumption that anyone running a live auction is automatically a reputable auction house but that ain't necessarily so!

In their terms and conditions it is stated that they basically will not pack items or arrange delivery. If you're not able to go in person to collect your items (for which you'll also be charged a fee) you will have to find some service that will go there, pack your item, and deliver it to you - something which will be very difficult to arrange and very expensive. Guernsey's state that they will also charge you a fee for 'overseeing' the packing of your item by the third party.

DCCollector
Member

Posts: 202
From: Washington, DC USA
Registered: Dec 2006

posted 10-19-2007 09:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DCCollector   Click Here to Email DCCollector     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I tuned into the live auction via eBay to see how the space items fared in today's auction.

The Apollo 14 flag with the "lunar rover" track marks sold for $21,000 (before any buyer's premium). The Apollo 11 "flown" flag sold for $6,000. And the "Apollo 17" panorama picture sold for $2,250 (Mike, I think you may be charging too little).

Just wait until the winning bidders get the bill for shipping...

Sanmat Aviation
New Member

Posts: 7
From: New York City USA
Registered: Aug 2006

posted 10-20-2007 04:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sanmat Aviation   Click Here to Email Sanmat Aviation     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I live in New York City and have purchased some items from this auction. There was no additional fee for picking up the items in house. In today's world, most items are reasonable, cosidering the cost of things.

chet
Member

Posts: 1328
From: Beverly Hills, Calif.
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 03-14-2014 02:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chet   Click Here to Email chet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Neil Armstrong's Hasselblad (ahem) has found its home in the Zaricor Family's Flag Collection.

Their website claims also to have a hat worn on Apollo 11, but then acknowledges the hat, with the NASA worm, couldn't have been on the flight.

Is this the Hasselblad that was used on the lunar surface to take the "visor" shot? Is it possible that Armstrong had personal possession of the camera, and GAVE it to Jack Naylor (as the Zaricor website claims?)

Is NASA aware of any of this? According to Neil Armstrong, the answer would have to be no.

So are the Zaricors in error, dupes, liars... or could their claims about one of the most iconic pieces of equipment in human history possibly be true?

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 29150
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 03-14-2014 02:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The one and only Hasselblad EDC to be used on the lunar surface during Apollo 11 remains on the moon today.

space1
Member

Posts: 554
From: Danville, Ohio, USA
Registered: Dec 2002

posted 03-14-2014 03:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for space1   Click Here to Email space1     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Everything about that Hasselblad screams terrestrial. Did anyone bother to note that all lunar Hasselblads were silver in color? That they didn't have viewfinders? That they had over-sized trigger buttons? That they had special lenses? Match all of those features and more, then we'll talk about how it still couldn't be Armstrong's from the moon. The Hasselblad in the collection is nice, and it has a nice focusing handle accessory, but it is strictly a catalog item.

chet
Member

Posts: 1328
From: Beverly Hills, Calif.
Registered: Nov 2000

posted 03-14-2014 03:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for chet   Click Here to Email chet     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I thought the same... not even a velcro tab in sight!

Don't these people realize that having this on their website calls into question the details of everything else being exhibited there?

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 29150
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 03-14-2014 03:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I sent a quick note to Zaricor outlining the basics and inviting them to make contact for more. Let's see if they reply.

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