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Author
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Topic: Aurora Auction Prices-Am I missing something?
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mensclub10@aol.com
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posted 10-07-2004 02:09 PM
   
I just started to review the prices realized in the Aurora Auction that just took place. I collect signed astronaut pieces and scrolled down to see what some of the crews went for. Apollo 7 crew #265 went for $275.00.
Apollo 8 crew #285 went for $300.00
Apollo 10 crew #312 went for $175.00
Apollo 13 crew #428 went for $225.00
Apollo 14 #449 did not sell
Apollo 17 crew #471 went for $250.00The only thing that made sense was the Apollo 1 crew sign #255 went for $4000.00. I wish I had the money because I would have bid on that one. Well, another day.
Were all the others crews autopenned and why would anyone bid as high as they did if they were autopenned. They must not have known. I guess Aurora didn't point out that these were autopenned during the auction. I would hate for anyone to bid $300.00 and $275.00 etc. on a $15.00 autopenned piece. Hopefully when the winning bidders figure out what they won, Aurora will refund their money. Just smart business. Now that I think of it some of these were pointed out in another thread.
Was the Apollo 11 crew #351 autopenned? It went for a reasonable $2500.00 compared to the high prices we have seen lately for this litho.
Dave [This message has been edited by mensclub10@aol.com (edited October 07, 2004).] |
Ken Havekotte
Member Posts: 2915
From: Merritt Island, Florida, Brevard
Registered: Mar 2001
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posted 10-07-2004 02:46 PM
Dave--I don't know, but Aurora was made aware of their APed Apollo crew-signed pictures from a prior post of mine that Victoria did see. The big surprise of the auction from an autopen standpoint was the Mercury-7 signed pic (#54) that apparently came from Michael Collins. It contained AUTOPENS of Cooper and Schirra, which I could easily prove that surely others would support me on...but...it also (I am convinved, as to my opinion, there is no question about it) had a secretarial signature of Shepard. The others, fortunately, are authentic of Grissom, Glenn, Carpenter and Slayton. But -- almost $5,000 or more, commission included, the lot sold for...and I don't know if Aurora took my (and others?) advice on this particular piece or not. I can perhaps see about $1,000 or so, maybe less, but certainly not $5K! Even if the pic did belong to Collins at one time, it doesn't necessarily mean that all the autographs are good. I've worked with many astronauts with some of their space collections, and believe it or not, their collections may even contain autopen pieces here and there. Some of the guys just don't know an autopen from a genuine one, ha, sometimes even their own! Do I stand alone on this one ??? Also, Dave, Apollo 11 Lot #351, based on my opinion, is NOT an autopen and may be authentic as an Apollo-era signed portrait--but--I didn't post my opinion as I needed to see the pic firsthand in order to make a better examination, which, wasn't done anyway. |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 10-07-2004 03:04 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Ken Havekotte:
Do I stand alone on this one ???
No way do you stand alone on this one, Ken. Not by a long shot. As you showed, many of these autopens were detectable even from the small scans seen on the internet. In person, you would *think* they would stick out like a sore thumb to anyone examining them who had even rudimentary expertise.
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Bob M
Member Posts: 1746
From: Atlanta-area, GA USA
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 10-07-2004 03:24 PM
If they can't identify an autopen and quickly remove it from their auction, what should we think about their concern & competence in authenticating expensive autographs that have a history of being forged? If I was running a space auction and even let one autopen slip by & appear in my fancy catalog, I'd be embarrassed, but it's just kind of become normal & expected to see mostly easy to identify autopens in space auction catalogs, going back many years. Believe me, it just ain't that hard to ID autopens - and just a little experience & an autopen guide should be enough! Bob Mc. |
spaced out
Member Posts: 3110
From: Paris, France
Registered: Aug 2003
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posted 10-07-2004 04:03 PM
quote:
Do I stand alone on this one ???
I agree that the Schirra is a 100% autopen match. The Cooper is more difficult to see, but then the position alone makes it suspect. Humans tend to aim their signatures into the lighter areas of a photo but this signature disappears straight into one of the darkest parts of the photo. My own version of this pic has Cooper signing up into the open canopy area which makes more sense.As for the Shepard I'm afraid I still don't know how to spot a secretarial - can someone write a little article on this for the Resources section? Pleeeease?  |
gliderpilotuk
Member Posts: 3398
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 10-07-2004 04:11 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Bob M:
If they can't identify an autopen and quickly remove it from their auction, what should we think about their concern & competence in authenticating expensive autographs that have a history of being forged? If I was running a space auction and even let one autopen slip by & appear in my fancy catalog, I'd be embarrassed, but it's just kind of become normal & expected to see mostly easy to identify autopens in space auction catalogs, going back many years. Believe me, it just ain't that hard to ID autopens - and just a little experience & an autopen guide should be enough! Bob Mc.
I'm 100% with you Bob. As I said in another post, how come nothing was put up on the internet bidding to warn those who had not viewed the Aurora website, or had the benefit of cS members' insight. This makes me seriously question whose interests are being served. Paul |
Leon Ford
Member Posts: 309
From: Shreveport, LA, United States
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-07-2004 08:55 PM
At what point does the offering of these autopen signatures as real autographs go from incompetence on the part of the Aurora to fraud? Leon |
spaceman1953
Member Posts: 953
From: South Bend, IN
Registered: Apr 2002
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posted 10-18-2004 09:18 PM
"Fraud" is a legal term.....ANYONE accusing ANYONE of FRAUD on ANY level is asking for TROUBLE......Be careful ! Word to the wise should be sufficient ! |
Scott
Member Posts: 3307
From: Houston, TX
Registered: May 2001
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posted 10-19-2004 12:00 AM
quote:
Originally posted by spaceman1953:
"Fraud" is a legal term.....ANYONE accusing ANYONE of FRAUD on ANY level is asking for TROUBLE......
Be careful !
Word to the wise should be sufficient !
Spare us the dramatics.
I for one thought Leon's question was responsible. And read it again. He accused no one of fraud. |
fabfivefreddy
Member Posts: 1067
From: Leawood, Kansas USA
Registered: Oct 2003
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posted 10-20-2004 09:27 PM
I also agree with Ken H. on the autopens.
Any item owned by an astronaut (with good documentation) is a great item to own any way you look at it.
However, as an autograph collector, autopens are not something I want- unless it came with a TLS or ALS from the astronaut stating it was from his private collection and had a few good signatures on it.
Tahir |
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