Space News
space history and artifacts articles

Messages
space history discussion forums

Sightings
worldwide astronaut appearances

Resources
selected space history documents

  collectSPACE: Messages
  Commercial Space - Military Space
  [Discuss] Boeing Starliner Crew Flight Test (Page 8)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search


This topic is 8 pages long:   1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8 
next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   [Discuss] Boeing Starliner Crew Flight Test
Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 54392
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 09-13-2024 06:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by issman1:
All concerned had "go fever" and paid the price.
"Go fever" would have been if Boeing went directly from flying OFT-1 to CFT. NASA had no requirement for Boeing to fly a second OFT and it was done so at entirely Boeing's expense.

As NASA explained, it is very hard, if not impossible, to test fire thrusters on the ground that are (a) at vacuum, (b) at temperature and (c) pointed in various directions at once. There just aren't test facilities to accommodate for such. That is why test flights are flown; to test the systems that cannot be fully proven on Earth.

Headshot
Member

Posts: 1393
From: Vancouver, WA, USA
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 09-20-2024 06:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Headshot   Click Here to Email Headshot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Boeing announced today that the head of its Defense and Space Division is leaving, effective immediately.
The company said Theodore "Ted" Colbert III was removed immediately as president and CEO of Boeing Defense, Space & Security and replaced temporarily by the division's chief operating officer, Steve Parker. A search is underway for a permanent replacement.

Colbert spent 15 years at Boeing, serving as chief information officer and leading its global-services business before running the defense unit.

Kelly Ortberg, who took over as Boeing CEO last month, said in a memo announcing Colbert's departure, "At this critical juncture, our priority is to restore the trust of our customers and meet the high standards they expect of us to enable their critical missions around the world. Working together we can and will improve our performance and ensure we deliver on our commitments."

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 54392
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 04-01-2025 03:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Suni Williams and Butch Wilmore (the latter, in particular) revealed much more detail about the troubles Starliner ran into when approaching the space station to dock. From Ars Technica:
Essentially, Wilmore could fully control Starliner any longer. But simply abandoning the docking attempt was not a palatable solution. Just as the thrusters were needed to control the vehicle during the docking process, they were also necessary to position Starliner for its deorbit burn and reentry to Earth's atmosphere. So Wilmore had to contemplate whether it was riskier to approach the space station or try to fly back to Earth. Williams was worrying about the same thing.

Williams: "There was a lot of unsaid communication, like, 'Hey, this is a very precarious situation we're in.' I think both of us overwhelmingly felt like it would be really nice to dock to that space station that's right in front of us. We knew that they [Mission Control] were working really hard to be able to keep communication with us, and then be able to send commands. We were both thinking, what if we lose communication with the ground? So NORDO Con Ops (this means flying a vehicle without a radio), and we didn't talk about it too much, but we already had synced in our mind that we should go to the space station. This is our place that we need to probably go to, to have a conversation because we don't know exactly what is happening, why the thrusters are falling off, and what the solution would be."

Wilmore: "I don't know that we can come back to Earth at that point. I don't know if we can. And matter of fact, I'm thinking we probably can't. So there we are, loss of 6DOF control, four aft thrusters down, and I'm visualizing orbital mechanics. The space station is nose down. So we're not exactly level with the station, but below it. If you're below the station, you're moving faster. That's orbital mechanics. It's going to make you move away from the station. So I'm doing all of this in my mind. I don't know what control I have. What if I lose another thruster? What if we lose comm? What am I going to do?"

SpaceAholic
Member

Posts: 5449
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 04-01-2025 03:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpaceAholic   Click Here to Email SpaceAholic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The kind of retrospective reporting that sustains cynicism during NASA and contractor press briefings.

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 54392
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 04-02-2025 12:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It actually doesn't, as another space enthusiast who read the article and initially felt like you do found out:
I went back and listened to the CFT post docking NASA media call. I was curious to see how it lined up with the latest info, nearly a year later.

I expected to do a big thread noting the changes but to my surprise (and relief) I have to say it holds up well. In fact it was like I was reading the Berger article again it matched so well.

Now the tone is obviously pretty optimistic but I don't think they should've been super alarmist in a briefing directly after docking.

They don't mention the loss of control for 6DOF, but they do list out all the thrusters that failed in detail and I guess if any of us had taken the time we would've been able to tell.

Knowing what we know now though I actually do read more concern/relief into their statements than I did when I watched this live.

As of now I don't know if I have the motivation to do the full homework and rewatch all of the Starliner media calls from June to September of last year. But I am relieved to say that the first one I consider accurate, which I actually did not expect.

Obviously they could have been more stern or critical. But that is kind of out of character for them, as they haven't really taken that stance with any program/contractor. And this was so early in the storyline they really didn't have much info, and despite the troubles were also happy at that point Starliner brought crew to the station. They've probably never had one as bad as Starliner so it is new territory.

And Eric Berger also commented:
I've always found NASA human spaceflight engineers, like those on the Starliner media calls, to be fairly straightforward and honest. I don't believe I have ever been straight up lied to by a NASA program official. I feel I can generally trust what they say, which is healthy.

Headshot
Member

Posts: 1393
From: Vancouver, WA, USA
Registered: Feb 2012

posted 04-04-2025 06:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Headshot   Click Here to Email Headshot     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wonder how much the ISS Russian crew members knew about the situation as it was happening?

Also, if the station commander had been Russian, would he have had the authority to cancel/abort the Starliner docking attempt?

Robert Pearlman
Editor

Posts: 54392
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999

posted 04-04-2025 09:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Robert Pearlman   Click Here to Email Robert Pearlman     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My understanding after talking with people who were there, is that the station's Russian crew members knew as much about the situation as anyone else at the time. Oleg Kononenko — who was the ISS commander — and his fellow countrymen heard everything over the loops. Everything Butch discussed in the interview played out in the open in real time.

Further, there is a crew member on every expedition who is appointed USOS lead, whose job it is to brief the ISS commander on what is happening. So whoever that was, was keeping Kononenko informed.

The ISS crew has to give their go to proceed with any docking (again, per my understanding). Had Kononenko disagreed with what the Starliner crew and Mission Control Houston were planning to do, he could have called it off. That he didn't, suggests that he came to the same conclusion: Starliner had to dock.

mercsim
Member

Posts: 261
From: Phoenix, AZ
Registered: Feb 2007

posted 04-07-2025 08:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mercsim   Click Here to Email mercsim     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It would be interesting to get more technical info from the astronauts or engineers regarding coming home with failed thrusters and using the re-entry thrusters for the re-entry burn alignment.


This topic is 8 pages long:   1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8 

All times are CT (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | The Source for Space History & Artifacts

Copyright 1999-2025 collectSPACE. All rights reserved.


Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.47a





advertisement