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Author
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Topic: [Discuss] Virgin's SpaceShipTwo VSS Enterprise
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cspg
Member Posts: 6210
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006
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posted 10-31-2014 03:55 PM
   
quote:
Originally posted by cfreeze79:
Regarding today's mishap near Mojave, I think many of us we recount the words of astronaut Gus Grissom...
With the notable difference that Grissom's program was a publicly funded one and Virgin Galactic is private. Whether the latter will recover from today's "mishap" is an open question. |
OV-105
Member Posts: 816
From: Ridgecrest, CA
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted 10-31-2014 04:01 PM
As of now Kern County SO, Calfironia City PD, Ridgecrest PD all in the area securing the scean for Until FAA/NTSB gets there to start their investigation. |
Lou Chinal
Member Posts: 1306
From: Staten Island, NY
Registered: Jun 2007
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posted 10-31-2014 04:03 PM
Thanks for the updates on this OV 105. A very sad day.As Mike Collins said after Challenger, "There is a very fine line between combustion and explosion." |
OV-105
Member Posts: 816
From: Ridgecrest, CA
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted 10-31-2014 04:27 PM
The press conference said it was two Scaled Composites test pilots who were flying SpaceShipTwo. Thanks Lou. This happened in my response area about 50 miles as the birds fly from my house. When I went through my ARRF classes we had info on SpaceShipOne since it was before its first flight. What's weird is there was a Mojave test pilot school plane that crashed in the same area a little over a week ago. Lost both pilots on that one. So it has been a rough month for Mojave. |
gliderpilotuk
Member Posts: 3398
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 10-31-2014 04:28 PM
And on ABC News, Kyle Bailey "aviation analyst" states that they will not approach the wreckage as it is "radioactive," having been into space.  |
onesmallstep
Member Posts: 1310
From: Staten Island, New York USA
Registered: Nov 2007
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posted 10-31-2014 04:50 PM
What a loss for the space community, both of human life and hardware. Hopefully, something can be learned from this and applied to future tests. As it has been said time and again, this is indeed rocket science and the learning curve can be steep, be it for military, NASA or commercial projects.With the loss also this week of a vintage Hawker Hunter jet and its pilot operated by a contractor out of Point Mugu Naval Air Station in California, it serves as a reminder that any type of flight can have unforeseen hazards. 'Per Ardua Ad Astra' |
dabolton
Member Posts: 419
From: Seneca, IL, US
Registered: Jan 2009
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posted 10-31-2014 07:01 PM
The survivability of a pilot beyond 45k ft without a pressure suit is marginal at best; could that indicate that they didnt seperate from the cockpit til a lower altitude? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-31-2014 07:05 PM
Photos of the vehicle breaking apart in flight (via NBC News):  |
OV-105
Member Posts: 816
From: Ridgecrest, CA
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted 10-31-2014 07:48 PM
quote:
Originally posted by gliderpilotuk:
And on ABC News, Kyle Bailey "aviation analyst" states that they will not approach the wreckage as it is "radioactive," having been into space.
That could have been from earlier reports. It first came in as an aircraft down. As units were responding other calls came in as a spacecraft of some type. Then more info came in from Mojave tower. |
Skythings
Member Posts: 243
From:
Registered: Jun 2014
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posted 10-31-2014 08:35 PM
My condolences to those who are connected to the lost Airman/Astronaut and this program. This accident will no doubt mature the program. Spaceflight will be stronger and no doubt safer with each failure, investigation, lessons learned and improvements.I for one am still saving my money with the hopes to someday fly with Virgin Galactic. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-31-2014 09:01 PM
Better quality versions of Kenneth Brown's photos (via USA Today): 
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mjanovec
Member Posts: 3811
From: Midwest, USA
Registered: Jul 2005
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posted 10-31-2014 11:44 PM
quote:
Originally posted by cspg:
With the notable difference that Grissom's program was a publicly funded one and Virgin Galactic is private. Whether the latter will recover from today's "mishap" is an open question.
Personally, I don't see the difference being that notable. Human beings are risking their lives to advance aerospace technology in either case, so I think Grissom's words echo regardless of where the money is coming from. A lot of individuals lost their lives in the private pursuit of advancing aviation technology over the past century...and we benefit today from the sacrifices that have been made. |
gliderpilotuk
Member Posts: 3398
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 11-01-2014 06:59 AM
quote:
Originally posted by OV-105:
That could have been from earlier reports.
No! It was against live pictures from Mojave. |
gliderpilotuk
Member Posts: 3398
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 11-01-2014 07:03 AM
The BBC reports that they were trialling a new fuel - albeit one that had been fully ground tested. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-01-2014 09:34 AM
It had been fully-ground tested, as noted both in our status thread and in our article: "We have done a lot of development tests over the years, but what we've been doing recently are qualification tests where you're firing the same motor design multiple times to make sure you're seeing the same thing every time," Virgin Galactic CEO George Whitesides told Space.com earlier this month. "So now we feel ready to put that motor on the spaceship." |
Apollo14LMP
Member Posts: 291
From: UK
Registered: Nov 2007
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posted 11-01-2014 09:54 AM
Not such positive messages coming out of this report. The Virgin Galactic spacecraft crash which killed one pilot and left another seriously injured was 'inevitable' as the rocket was 'crude' and 'unreliable', Richard Branson's biographer has claimed.Tom Bower said the Virgin boss's bold plans for a space tourism company were always going to end in tragedy and claimed engineers told him the project was 'very dangerous'. Big differences between SS1 and SS2.My own experience with rocket motors with an X Prize candidate tells me none of this easy and will never be safe! |
ivorwilliams
Member Posts: 69
From: Welwyn Garden City, UK
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 11-01-2014 10:10 AM
Never take anything written in the Daily Fail as gospel! |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-01-2014 10:14 AM
I was on CCTV-America last night to discuss the loss of SpaceShipTwo:I will be on Sky News in the UK at or about 1730 GMT. My scheduled interview on Sky News has been postponed in favor of the network trying to secure an interview with Richard Branson.
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cspg
Member Posts: 6210
From: Geneva, Switzerland
Registered: May 2006
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posted 11-01-2014 10:50 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Apollo14LMP:
Not such positive messages coming out of this report.
The same statement came from that (former?) Washington Post (?) journalist interviewed on CNN yesterday (and news go so fast that I can't find the link or that person's name... |
Captain Apollo
Member Posts: 260
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2004
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posted 11-01-2014 11:04 AM
Tom Bower (Branson biographer) was being interviewed on BBC radio Today programme. He said several senior engineers had (recently?) left the programme as they viewed it as unsafe. Anyone got any comment on that? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-01-2014 11:17 AM
I haven't read Bower's book, but the impression I got at the time of its release was that he carries a particular bias that would lead me to look towards other sources to parse news of employee departures or the like. In other news, the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) has just completed a brief press conference, reporting they are now on the scene. Of note, this is the first time the NTSB has lead an investigation into the loss of a rocket or spacecraft with people onboard. They said another conference will be held later in the day when more information is available. |
Cozmosis22
Member Posts: 968
From: Texas * Earth
Registered: Apr 2011
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posted 11-01-2014 11:59 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Skythings:
I for one am still saving my money with the hopes to someday fly with Virgin Galactic.
Pay them $250,000.00 per ticket?Sorry, couldn't pay me a quarter of a million dollars to fly to the edge of space in that thing? No thanks. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-01-2014 12:02 PM
Richard Branson has just completed a brief press conference at the Mojave Air and Space Port. A few points: - Details about the two pilots will be provided later. Branson reiterated that the pilot who had died was a Scaled Composites employee and was someone who he had never met.
- Virgin Galactic has received an outpouring of support from the space community, including from NASA, Chris Hadfield and the crew aboard the space station.
- As the NTSB is now in charge, he is not allowed to comment at all on the spacecraft, the test flight or anything related to the investigation. He said he thought it irresponsible for anyone to be commenting on the causes of the accident before the investigation had a chance to proceed.
- He said he would like to proceed with the SpaceShipTwo flight program but only if a safe way forward can be identified. He said that he has heard from many of the people who hold reservations. He has received no requests for a cancellation (though refunds are available for anyone who desires) and in fact, had someone sign up yesterday for the sole purpose of showing support for the program.
Update: Richard Branson's prepared remarks can be read here. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-01-2014 12:09 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Cozmosis22:
Pay them $250,000.00 per ticket?
Although I have not spoken publicly about it until now, about two years ago I came very close to purchasing a reservation. I had the flight contract and was preparing to make payment.The reason for my not going forward was not because I had doubts about the safety of the vehicle, or the full understanding that any spaceflight, regardless of when it happened or on what vehicle, would place my life at risk, but rather a conflict of interests that forced me to postpone making the reservation. Assuming they move forward from this accident and convey clearly what they have done to address what went wrong, I anticipate I will revisit flying with Virgin Galactic in the future. |
Glint
Member Posts: 1040
From: New Windsor, Maryland USA
Registered: Jan 2004
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posted 11-01-2014 12:23 PM
Did both pilots eject or did one auger in? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-01-2014 12:33 PM
It is not clear if either pilot ejected, or if one was thrown from the vehicle as it broke apart. SpaceShipTwo does not have ejection seats, so for the one who survived to have made it out purposely, he would have had to have climbed out of his seat and then out of the hatch.Those watching the flight from the ground have said the main fuselage entered a spin after the initial explosion. Doug Messier (Parabolic Arc) reported on Twitter what he saw of the pilot who died (linking, rather than repeating, here for those who would rather not know). |
noroxine
Member Posts: 116
From:
Registered: Mar 2009
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posted 11-01-2014 01:15 PM
Anyone have idea of why there is no more details about the pilots? Already four deaths, a tragedy for a so young space program. It really reveals that it is really again a very hard industry and not was never acquired... All my sincere condolences to all people involve. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-01-2014 01:19 PM
As noted earlier, details about the pilots are expected to be released later today.Here is video of the NTSB press conference from earlier this morning: |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-01-2014 01:57 PM
The Kern's County coroner's office has confirmed Michael Alsbury as the pilot who died. The identity of the surviving pilot has not been released.Alsbury, 39, co-piloted the first powered flight of SpaceShipTwo in April 2013. Prior to Friday's flight, he had flown SpaceShipTwo a total of eight times as co-pilot. A memorial thread for Alsbury has been started here. |
East-Frisian
Member Posts: 586
From: Germany
Registered: Apr 2005
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posted 11-01-2014 02:07 PM
According to German Wikipedia the other pilot was Peter Siebold. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-01-2014 06:37 PM
Virgin Galactic has now confirmed Michael Alsbury and Peter Siebold as the SpaceShipTwo crew on Friday's ill-fated flight. |
OV-105
Member Posts: 816
From: Ridgecrest, CA
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted 11-01-2014 07:33 PM
Well what is left of SpaceShipTwo got a good wash down last night since it rained pretty good out there. There was still standing water on parts of the 14 when I drove by on my way out of town. This could get really interesting since it is such a wide open area that it went down. There are a lot of people who come up to camp and ride their dirt bikes all around there on the weekends. It is just started to cool off now and there were a lot of dirt bikers up last weekend. It is going to be hard to control the site. |
ivorwilliams
Member Posts: 69
From: Welwyn Garden City, UK
Registered: Jan 2005
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posted 11-01-2014 07:48 PM
I didn't know of Michael Alsbury but I had an awful feeling that Pete Siebold was one of the pilots involved. At least he will be able to hopefully give a full and frank account of what happened inside SS2. Of course my heart goes out to Mr Alsbury's family, it is a terrible loss. I also wish Pete a speedy recovery. |
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 11-02-2014 12:31 AM
In one media account I read it wasn't known whether or not a black box was installed. Granted, this was a test flight, but since the craft is registered with the FAA and will be carrying passengers, shouldn't a black box have been installed or is that only for when it is in passenger service?Also, were the pilots wearing pressure suits or just flight suits with oxygen masks — and what will the passengers be wearing? (And am I correct in assuming the bailout capability of the pilots will be disabled once SS2 starts carrying passengers, since there is no way for all passengers to leave the craft?) |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-02-2014 01:58 AM
NTSB acting chairman Christopher Hart was asked about the black box before he and his team began their investigation. They are coming into this knowing very little about SpaceShipTwo, so his reply was that he was not yet aware if there was one or not. By the end of the day Saturday, he said that SpaceShipTwo was equipped with data recorders, as well as cameras and telemetry that will provide much more data than is normal for other NTSB investigations.Siebold and Alsbury were wearing flight suits with oxygen masks, which is similar to what is planned for passengers — flight suits with helmets that can be connected to an oxygen supply in the case of an emergency. SpaceShipTwo is not equipped with a bailout capability for the pilots or the passengers. There are no ejection seats, even during the test flights. It is not yet clear how Siebold came free of the vehicle, whether he purposely climbed out of his seat and exited through the hatch or if he was thrown free of the craft as it broke apart. |
SpaceAholic
Member Posts: 4437
From: Sierra Vista, Arizona
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-02-2014 06:36 AM
Clearly there was some type of (at least rudimentary) bailout capability otherwise the crew would not have been equipped with chutes. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-02-2014 08:41 AM
True, but it may the chutes were only for the scenario described: exiting through the hatch with no other special provisions. |
Tykeanaut
Member Posts: 2212
From: Worcestershire, England, UK.
Registered: Apr 2008
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posted 11-02-2014 09:06 AM
I know the rockets had been ground tested but could they have been tested unmanned at altitude too? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 11-02-2014 09:24 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Tykeanaut:
I know the rockets had been ground tested but could they have been tested unmanned at altitude too?
SpaceShipTwo cannot be flown without a crew.The investigation is only just beginning and so I would caution about assuming the engine was the culprit. There is now at least some reason to believe the break up was not the result of the motor failing. The oxidizer tank and engine casing appear to be intact on the ground. And the photos of the vehicle breaking apart in flight seem to show the engine still burning after the booms separated from the vehicle. One theory is a structural failure of the cabin leading to a rapid decompression. |
dabolton
Member Posts: 419
From: Seneca, IL, US
Registered: Jan 2009
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posted 11-02-2014 09:40 AM
Based on the design of the vehicle, could another type of motor (fully liquid, etc.) even be retrofitted into it? i.e. Is this a hybrid-only vehicle? |
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