posted 06-03-2006 04:25 PM               

During the Berlin Air & Space Show, CollectSpace member Frank Leuband
organized a tour on the compound and invited fellow collectors Kirsten M�ller, Eberhard Tremel, Dieter Heins and myself to join in.

During half a day, we could visit the two rocket test grounds in the area (Eastern and Western) and the several remaining concrete structures that hosted the test stands.

The photographs I took on this occasion can be seen here.

------------------
J�rgen P Esders
Berlin, Germany http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Astroaddies

posted 06-03-2006 07:39 PM               

Thanks for posting these. Unfortunately, it appears that you need a password to get it.

Regards,

posted 06-04-2006 04:05 AM               

Here you go

J�rgen

------------------
J�rgen P Esders
Berlin, Germany http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Astroaddies

posted 06-04-2006 09:11 PM               

I was able to get in and access the site. Thanks again for posting these. I was curious to see what the site looks like today. Unfortunate time has taken its toll.

I've tried a few times during trips to Germany to see if I could get out that way but was unable to make it. Is the site accessible to the general public or do you know someone who was able to grant you special access?

Again, thanks for sharing.

Regards,

posted 06-05-2006 03:44 AM               

You are right that we are talking about ruins here. Still, this is a LOT more to see than on the site at Peenem�nde where the Russians, on Allied order at the Potsdam conference, blew up everything that remains. This site was just left to decay, and occasional strolling of the Russian conscripts - "Igor loves Olga" and "Vitya wants to go home" type graffities are all over the place.

The site is accessible through guided tours only, usually taking place on weekends. It is state property, as it was (overall) an ammunition proving ground, still contaminated with tons of unexploded ammunition, and only the local museum has the authorization to hold guided tours, an authorization they have to apply for again every twelve months.

The tour costs 11 Euro per head, and takes between five and six hours, depending on what you want to see and how fast the group proceeds. Experience says the more the visitors know about the history, the longer it takes ....

The museum volunteers do undertake steps to safeguard the remains "as is", but they are not allowed to undertake excavations, for instance. Nobody wants to assume the risk that any excavation might be the trigger for further costs, such as for decontamination, etc.

You can find the planning for the guided tours on their website:
Homepage (old): http://www.kaim-online.de/index.html
Homepage (new, under construction: http://www.museum-kummersdorf.de/

As you can see on the photos, they are available to do tours for small groups too, and they are flexible on the planning. Thus, when you come to Germany next time, and maybe not alone, you might wish to give them a call ahead of time and discuss the possibilities. I am quite sure they would do their outmost to welcome visitors from overseas. It would give them an additional argument - "international interest" - in their bargaining with the site authorities.

If group size is an issue, you could always post a message on CollectSpace or any of the yahoo groups and see whether you can find more takers.

J�rgen

PS: With us, the tour was in German. I don't know whether they do tours in English, if this is an issue. It might depend on the capabilities of the local volunteers. It's all a non profit undertaking.

------------------
J�rgen P Esders
Berlin, Germany http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Astroaddies

posted 06-06-2006 08:38 PM               

Great information and additional links. Thanks for posting all of this. I have had some interest for some time and have not been too successful with finding information. This has been terrific.

Regards,

posted 06-15-2006 12:11 AM            

Is there much to see at Peenemunde at all? Me and the Mrs. are thinking about a drive along the North Sea coast -- sort of Normandy - Belgium - Holland - Denmark -- I'd like to go a bit further and see Pennemunde, but is there anything to see?

posted 06-15-2006 03:40 AM               

There are a couple of buildings remaining, but the main attraction - the remains of former test stand 7 where the first successful A4 rocket launch took place - is not yet accessible for the public. Nonetheless, they attract over 300.000 visitors per annum, so it must have some attraction even for the layman.

If you have any sort of VIP status (scientist, press, etc.), contact the museum director and ask for a guided tour to the test stand.

They have a very good exhibition (with English texts as well) about the whole thing (Smithsonian's Michael Neufeldt assisted).

And of course the long drive to the place will show you how remote the area really is, in particular if you consider the infrastructure of the 30s ...... it's on the Baltic Sea, btw, not the North Sea.

Check their website at: http://www.peenemuende.de/hti/index.php?id=7

If you drive along the North Sea coast, checkout the "La Coupole" site near Saint-Omer in Northern France. They have set up a very interesting museum inside the former "dome" that was intended to produce A4's on spot. The view on life of French citizens during the German occupation is also worth your attention.

Nearby, there is another important A4 site, Eperl�cques. Not so many bucks poured into its presentation as with La Coupole, but still impressive if you're into haunting concrete ruins.

When do you intend to come along? Dave Silcox is thinking of coming over in mid/late September (and for the 2nd time). If you got enough Americans to pool for a group, this might facilitate your asking for a guided tour .....

------------------
J�rgen P Esders
Berlin, Germany http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Astroaddies

[This message has been edited by eurospace (edited June 15, 2006).]

[This message has been edited by eurospace (edited June 15, 2006).]

posted 06-15-2006 04:45 AM            

Any space museums/shops/sites in Berlin city centre?

I will only have about 1 hour to visit them later in year ona Sunday.

posted 06-15-2006 08:19 AM               

quote:

---

Originally posted by spaceuk:
Any space museums/shops/sites in Berlin city centre?

I will only have about 1 hour to visit them later in year ona Sunday.

Phill
spaceuk

---

One hour? Berlin is really worth much more of your time ....

Spacewise, you could have a look into the Museum of Technology. They opened a whole new building covering the history of aviation and space. From what I hear (I haven't seen it yet) the aviation part is much more impressive than the space part (which is fairly basic). http://www.dtmb.de/Rundgang/Neubau/index.html

The Air Force Museum on the former British airport of Gatow has a large collection of real aircraft, including (space!) one of the surviving examples of the Messerschmitt Me-163, the first operational rocket propelled fighter aircraft. But that's probably already a one hour drive from the city centre ..... http://www.luftwaffenmuseum.de/

posted 06-17-2006 03:14 PM            

Thank you for the advice and the offer of, perhaps, a tour -- we have a 2 year old and since my wife is unlikely to want to hit the big European space/rocket centers more than once, I'd like to wait until my kid is a bit older. If we go for a trip like this sooner, I'll certainly hope for some more advice from you on space/aviation stuff in Europe.

Viel Danke.

posted 06-20-2006 09:18 AM               

Perhaps in ten years Launch Pad 7 at Peenem�nde will be open and you can share the fascination with your son then ....