posted 01-15-2005 06:18 AM            

• 18 earth ground radio telescopes should be able determine Huygen's landing position to within 1 km.

• The deceleration of impact of Huygens onto Titan surface was measured at 15g for a few milliseconds only.

• The penetrometer suggests that surface material is a thin crust with a uniform consistency. The penetrator went in 15 cm.
  Closest analog they have given - so far - is wet sand or clay material as far as mechanical properties.

• The sonar data suggested a 4.5 m/sec impact speed - lower than expected.

• The aerosol collector noted polymers,hydrocarbons and nitriles but little hard data presented at news conference.

• The minimum temperature (at cloud layer) was seen as 70.5 degrees kelvin and on ground at 93.8 degrees kelvin (i.e very cold!)

• The microphone sounds were replayed. My interpretation was is that it was like standing on a pavement in a town centre with the traffic constantly 'humming' by.

• The radar sounder acoustics were played back. My interpretation is that it starts off like a drum beat then picks up rapidly and is like a motorbike buzzing off into the distance, which then turns around and returns back to you! The sounds will be on Planetary Society web site later.

• The GCMS got very good data on channel B
  At the 90 minute mark in descent there is a distinct kink in the data on chart and was attributed to an increase in the methane/nitrogen ratio suggesting a thick haze layer at about 18-20 km altitude level. Pressure was seen at 500 millibars.

• On the surface they saw again a methane/nitrogen ratio increase. It was suggested the surface layer was evaporating and that there was maybe a methane reservoir just underneath?

• A couple more images were shown including an altitude panorama and a surface colour image.

  The surface colour is very much Mars like being orange in colour on both rocks,surface layers and haze layers. Some white patches on the rocks - which are about 15-20 centimetres across. The camera is about 40 cm above Titan ground.
  
  The dendritic patterns seen on surface from altitude being expressed as drainage channels.

  The altitude panorama showed what was described as a thin ground fog or haze of ethane or methane.
  
  The wind speed was seen as 7 metre/second at the 10-20km altitude.

• The DSIR instrument reflectance readings suggests that the surface is closer to water ice than methane or ethane ice.

posted 01-15-2005 06:43 AM            

There are several 'impact' craters in the dark material which suggest it is a 'firm' layer - maybe like dried mud flats - perhaps of hydrocarbons.

posted 01-15-2005 07:17 AM            

In 2000 these oils shales actually caught 'fire' and gave off pungent black and grey smoke for months - as well as visible flames.

There used to be some 'crude oil' outcrops at Castleton in Derbyshire - not sure if still accessible - haven't been for years!

I have a small piece of this - which I'll try and find. It is very dull black,very rubbery to handle (squashy). The open oozing pond of this at Castelton was like a black muddy lake. To step into it would have been almost fatal since it would have sucked you in like quick sand - very very gooey.

The 'rubbery oil' had the same kind of consistency as the rubberised solid propellant used in SpaceShipOne.

posted 01-15-2005 10:26 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gordon Reade:
How long did Huygens "live" after touching down on Titan?

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posted 01-16-2005 06:18 PM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Scott:
Maybe your player somehow added the 2 minutes...

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posted 01-16-2005 06:46 PM            

Here's some more from other "impatient novices".

posted 01-17-2005 09:31 PM               

I recognized the work of one of them to be that of Frank Hettick. Apparently he was first place award winner in The Planetary Society contest for the artist's interpretation of Titan/Huygen's landing. Way to go Frank! I have purchased many of Frank's art pieces from Astro-Auction, along with a lot of Kim's work ...thanks guys.

posted 01-18-2005 11:25 AM               

Titan: A Primordial Earth In Our Solar System
September 22, 2000

About the time Percival Lowell was proposing canals on Mars, the Catalan astronomer José Comas Solé, inferred the presence of an atmosphere on Titan. Solé reported that he observed that Titan was darker at its limb than it was at its center.

He suggested that the mechanism for this was sunlight reflected toward the Earth by Titan's limb must pass through more of Titan's atmosphere than sunlight reflected by the center.

Solés observations led Sir James Jeans to include Titan and giant moons of Jupiter in his theoretical study of the escape of atmospheres from the bodies of the solar system. Jeans hypothesized that even though the gravity on Titan was weak compared to the Earth. Titan nevertheless probably retained an atmosphere due to its low temperature.

This lead to the prediction that the temperature of Titan must be between 60 and 100 Kelvin (273 K = 0oC), which would imply that a gaseous substance whose molecular weight is 16 or more should not have escaped from Titan over the history of the solar system. (Molecular hydrogen (H2) has a molecular weight of two; molecular oxygen (O2) has a molecular weight of 32]. Several substances satisfy Jean's limit on weight. These include argon, neon, molecular nitrogen (N2) and methane (CH4).

In 1944 the legendary planetary scientist Gerald P. Kuiper, of the University of Chicago, identified methane in the spectrum of Titan -- the first strong evidence that Titan had an atmosphere. Subsequent observations by radar, telescopes and laboratory modeling painted varied pictures of Titan.

For example, based upon previous work, John J. Caldwell of Princeton University, suggested that the atmosphere of Titan was 90% methane with a surface pressure of 20 millibars (1000 millibars is roughly the atmospheric pressure at sea level on the Earth) and a surface temperature of 86 K.

Alternatively, based upon radio measurements, Donald M. Hunten of the University of Arizona proposed that Titan could have an atmosphere of molecular hydrogen at 20 bars and a surface temperature of 200 K.

A middle ground was reached when Walter J. Jaffe and Tobias Owen observed Titan with the Very Large Array of radio telescopes situated in New Mexico. They found that Titan had a surface temperature of 87 K and that it could have a significant atmosphere with the caveat that nitrogen provided no more than two bars.

posted 01-19-2005 09:23 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Novaspace:
I hope someday soon ESA comes out of its self-congratulatory fog, and learn how to use the media (which have now all gone home).

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Yes, I understand that the PI's have been waiting DECADES for their experiments to succeed and want to 'analyse' what they have - who wouldn't !

But, a more general over the shoulder look would have been great.

There was a small amount with BBC 2 Stardate but not a great deal. (I don't know if any other Euro channels did anything similar like BBC Stardate?)

Also, where was the Descent Press Kit? There were bits and bobs around the ESA site but not in one PDF/Word document - at least I didn't find it!

There were some animations but none that could easily be referred too?

This was THE flagship planetary mission. It was a very risky mission to descend into the 'unknown' atmosphere of Titan. But the rewards would be rich - if they carried it off - which they did admirably. The technology and the science. ESA and its teams should be on the roof top shouting it aloud to the world. Instead it was almost a whimper.

It should have been a priority in ESA PR.

Several links to websites that should be carrying Huygens experiment details didn't work either, e.g. Italian site.

It is now nearly one week on.

Where are the 'additional' images that have been processed since Friday night? Or updates on some experimental data? I understand there is another press meeting this Friday coming?

The web site carrying images is nearly always 'frozen' due to, no doubt, thousands of extra hits. Where were the mirror sites for this? They should have known that they would get increased traffic for about 1 week? Even the NASA Cassini site didn't carry images - just referred to the ESA portal

Pre-descent the ESA Bulletin magazine carried a article about the mission. But again, ESA PR missed an opportunity.

They should have sent out car bumper stickers, Huygens logo stickers, pin badges, A4 (or larger) posters, leaflets at the same time in same envelope to the several hundred (thousands?) on this distribution list. But they didn't.

Also, now some images are becoming slowly available, you have this pop-up acceptance screen. Why on every image? Do it once at the start of that image web page?

posted 01-19-2005 09:33 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Blackarrow:
Phill, what was the atmospheric pressure on the ground?

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Not sure if they have released that info yet?

It was 500 millibars higher up at altitude from some data they gave. Maybe update this coming Friday 21/1/05)?

posted 01-19-2005 05:06 PM            

Enjoy.

I take back just a little of what I said about ESA PR earlier but it certainly was not 'shouted from roof tops' again.

posted 01-19-2005 05:14 PM            

It is what Don Davis and others used for their amateur mosaics.

posted 01-19-2005 05:21 PM            

Kim, you're absolutely right about ESA losing the PR battle. They should have done more to publicize such a wonderful success.

Phill, same comment. "Stardate" was fine, but not enough actual Titan images.

posted 01-19-2005 05:23 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Novaspace:
These images were accessible from one of the UofA's imaging team's websites the first day, until ESA made her remove them, because they hadn't been officially released by ESA.

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posted 01-19-2005 05:37 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Blackarrow:
Phill, what was the atmospheric pressure on the ground?

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posted 01-19-2005 06:33 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Blackarrow:
Is that familiar image of "snowballs" on the surface of Titan the only view of the surface?

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The riverlets probably carry ethane rain runoff to the ocean. I don't see how anyone can dispute an ocean-shore view, but let's remember how unbelievably COLD it is there.

posted 01-19-2005 06:46 PM               

Imagine going what, 800 Million miles, and taking snapshots of something that looks like the California coastline...

posted 01-21-2005 07:43 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Matt T:
So are they saying there is life on Titan?

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Carbon is found in all earth living organisms BUT it is also found in inorganic compounds.

Methane (CH4) and ethane (C2H6) discovered at Titan are carbon compounds.

Methane natural gas on earth is normally associated with the anaerobic decomposition of plant and animal matter under water (common name - marsh gas) and usually occurs with oil deposits deep underground.

On earth, bitumonous coal is used in commercial production of methane - coal having been formed by decomposition of dead (once living!) matter over many thousands and millions of years (usually going back to Carboniferous era).

So, over the last few centuries, methane has been 'associated' with 'decaying matter' because that is where we humans have mainly found it naturally here on earth.

posted 01-23-2005 12:08 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by gliderpilotuk:
Are there likely to be any shots of Saturn from the surface of Titan, or during descent? That would be something else.

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