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Author
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Topic: Crew size in early DOD shuttle missions
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ashot
Member Posts: 84
From:
Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 03-29-2025 02:51 AM
  
An interesting observation: both early Department of Defense (DOD) space shuttle missions (STS-51C and 51J) had a NASA crew of four, while all other missions of that period had five NASA crewmembers. A partial explanation of this could be that STS-10 crew (which later transformed into 41E, then, finally, to 51C) was assigned when all shuttle crews of that period (STS-5, 6, 7, 8, 9) consisted of only four NASA astronauts. (As it seems to me, the addition of the fifth crewmember mainly took care of offloading the commander and pilot from RMS and EVA business, with very few exclusions like adding two medical doctors for SAS studies to STS-7 and STS-8, and crews of four for two Centaur missions due to mainly safety and possible weight issues.) Then, the original Bobko's "standby" crew (announced, but without a mission) was five NASA astronauts. However, when it was finally assigned to a particular mission (51J) the NASA crew size was reduced to four. Meanwhile, for all announced 1986 DOD crews (62A, 61N) NASA part was "standard" five - exactly as for any other regular mission. Any ideas why early DOD shuttle crews were "downsized"? |
Tom
Member Posts: 1770
From: New York
Registered: Nov 2000
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posted 03-29-2025 07:17 AM
Both STS-51C and 51J had four NASA astronauts assigned to them because each also had a MSE (military astronaut) crew member making them five-person crew. |
astro-nut
Member Posts: 1063
From: Washington, IL
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 03-29-2025 12:59 PM
I remember the original Bobko standby crew being Karol Bobko, Ron Grabe, Bob Stewart, Mike Mullane and Dave Hilmers. |
brianjbradley
Member Posts: 185
From: Toronto, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2010
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posted 03-29-2025 01:08 PM
I forget whose memoir it was, but an astronaut detailed how expensive the DOD flights were — separate phone lines, offices, meetings in bunkers, traveling to payload contractors in secret. It all added a hefty cost. I imagine this was part of the reason for crew size. I also wonder about payload weight requirements. |
ashot
Member Posts: 84
From:
Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 03-29-2025 01:21 PM
Secret phone line, incognito travels, etc., all that was in T.K. Mattingly's oral history. |
Jim Behling
Member Posts: 1972
From: Cape Canaveral, FL
Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 03-29-2025 04:23 PM
quote:
Originally posted by brianjbradley:
It all added a hefty cost. I imagine this was part of the reason for crew size.
It was not cost, it was payload weight. A crew person was 450 lb. NASA didn't push hard for the SAS requirement for five crew members until later flights. MSE did not reduce work load of the shuttle crew, except for some photography. |
onesmallstep
Member Posts: 1507
From: Staten Island, New York USA
Registered: Nov 2007
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posted 04-01-2025 12:29 PM
The role of shuttle in secret DoD payload deployments is told in episode 2, Secret War, of the podcast "16 Sunsets." Astronauts Ken Mattingly and Bob Stewart are among those interviewed. For a history of the Manned Spaceflight Engineers (of which only two flew), see "Come Fly With Us," published by the University of Nebraska Press as part of its Outward Odyssey series. | |
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