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Author
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Topic: [Discuss] Preparing the orbiters for public display
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Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 12-16-2011 10:53 PM
   
quote:
Originally posted by OV-105:
Did they they leave the MS seats on the flight deck?
Discovery, at the Smithsonian's request, is the engineering reference model of the retired fleet and therefore its most complete. When it ships to Virginia, its crew compartment will appear as though ready for another mission. The Smithsonian plans to install video cameras that visitors can control to virtually tour the mid- and flight decks. Discovery's WCS (toilet) and galley have been reinstalled. Its middeck lockers and crew seats will be returned inside as well. quote:
Funny that Discovery has its OBSS and no RMS.
It's not yet clear if the Smithsonian requested that the arm be shipped separately to be displayed alongside Discovery, or if it is going elsewhere. Endeavour's arm is going to the Canadian Space Agency headquarters for display. Atlantis' arm is now on its way to Johnson Space Center, to be saved for possible future use in space. |
Lee Brandon Cremer
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posted 12-16-2011 11:14 PM
Now we wait for Discovery to swap with Endeavour in the VAB and the mating of the tail cone and final shuttle carrier aircraft flight for this beautiful vehicle. |
Jay Chladek
Member Posts: 2272
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 12-17-2011 01:22 AM
Of course, with Discovery in a powered down state, I am curious as to how the landing gear will be deployed when she arrives at Udvar Hazy. I know the gears have to get cranked up manually (since they have no retraction hydraulics, just extension ones). But I've always wondered what is involved with dropping the gear once a shuttle gets pulled off the 747 SCA.It also looks like Discovery will be the only space flown orbiter with open and visible landing gear once it goes on display at Udvar Hazy since Atlantis will be displayed "on orbit" and Endeavour will apparently be erected vertically. |
psloss
Member Posts: 32
From:
Registered: Jun 2011
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posted 12-17-2011 07:57 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Jay Chladek:
But I've always wondered what is involved with dropping the gear once a shuttle gets pulled off the 747 SCA.
Probably same type of hydraulic operations as in the VAB or at either of the Mate Demate Devices, using a hydraulic cart.
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SpaceAngel
Member Posts: 307
From: Maryland
Registered: May 2010
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posted 12-17-2011 09:44 AM
For the last time, Discovery has fallen silent... |
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 12-17-2011 11:23 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Jay Chladek:
Of course, with Discovery in a powered down state, I am curious as to how the landing gear will be deployed when she arrives at Udvar Hazy.
Doesn't the landing gear just drop down once you hit the switch? Or am I thinking of Enterprise? |
ilbasso
Member Posts: 1522
From: Greensboro, NC USA
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted 12-17-2011 12:15 PM
I assume the backup pyros are not an option! Pyros fired automatically 1 second after the Gear Down command if there wasn't sufficient hydraulic pressure to deploy the landing gear. |
Jay Chladek
Member Posts: 2272
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 12-17-2011 08:29 PM
Chances are very likely that the pyros would be removed from the gears before the birds get sent to the museums, so there is NO chance of them getting fired. As for hydraulics, if they use a cart then I also wonder if the hydraulics would get bled as well prior to display to keep them from leaking (which can take a long time to bleed as hydraulic fluid tends to be very viscous stuff). |
Skylon
Member Posts: 274
From:
Registered: Sep 2010
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posted 12-18-2011 08:07 AM
While on the subject of RMS', what ever happened to Columbia's? She wasn't carrying one during STS-107. I read somewhere (wikipedia maybe) it was broken up to create the OBSS', but I've never seen anything to verify this. |
GACspaceguy
Member Posts: 2475
From: Guyton, GA
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 12-18-2011 08:19 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Jay Chladek:
...as hydraulic fluid tends to be very viscous stuff
Jay, not sure about hydraulic fluid that has to fly in space but for aircraft the material is Skydrol, which is not that viscous. At room temperature water is a "1," milk is a "3" — Skydrol would be an "11" and SAE 40 motor oil is a "900." From the NASA website, the hydraulic fluid specification is MIL-H-83282, It look like this fluid would be a "14" at room temperature. I know on aircraft there is a system to run the hydraulic system on the ground by either the auxiliary pump (electrical and is run from internal batteries) or by an external source called a hydraulic mule. I assume there is a similar system for the shuttle as well. |
GACspaceguy
Member Posts: 2475
From: Guyton, GA
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 12-18-2011 08:44 AM
On another note, who ends up with the boattail when all of the shuttles are finaly home? |
Jay Chladek
Member Posts: 2272
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 12-19-2011 02:57 AM
Well, there are two tailcones as I understand it. So that means there will potentially be two available for display purposes (assuming the cone used to take Enterprise to NYC gets returned after the ferry flight). |
SpaceKSCBlog
Member Posts: 119
From: Merritt Island, FL
Registered: Nov 2011
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posted 12-25-2011 07:19 AM
One tailcone is currently in the VAB. |
Jay Chladek
Member Posts: 2272
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 12-25-2011 11:06 PM
The second one is likely at Edwards (where it probably would have been stored in case of a California landing at the end of a mission). The tailcone in the VAB will probably end up on Discovery for its trip to DC, and then on Enterprise for the NYC trip. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 12-26-2011 05:34 AM
To clarify and confirm, the tailcone was moved into the Vehicle Assembly Building transfer aisle recently to prepare it for the museum delivery ferry flights. |
OV-105
Member Posts: 816
From: Ridgecrest, CA
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted 12-26-2011 06:36 PM
I thought I read somewhere that one of the tailcones was being fixed so it can work with Enterprise again. It has to do with all of the orbiters now having the drag chute at the tail which Enterprise is lacking. |
psloss
Member Posts: 32
From:
Registered: Jun 2011
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posted 01-11-2012 04:18 PM
Tracy Young with KSC PAO said that tailcone serial number 2 is the one at KSC now and will fly with Discovery to Washington. It will then go back to KSC for Endeavour's ferry flight.Tailcone S/N 1 will fly with Enterprise from Washington to New York. The plan was to leave that on Enterprise for display. |
GACspaceguy
Member Posts: 2475
From: Guyton, GA
Registered: Jan 2006
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posted 01-11-2012 04:50 PM
quote:
Originally posted by psloss:
The plan was to leave that on Enterprise for display.
I was hoping that would be the case.
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kr4mula
Member Posts: 642
From: Cinci, OH
Registered: Mar 2006
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posted 01-12-2012 11:09 AM
I gather from the official comments that there won't be any sort of publicity tour or stopovers of the shuttle/SCA on their way to the final destinations? |
Jay Chladek
Member Posts: 2272
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 01-12-2012 02:11 PM
Well, I suppose there might be a fuel stopover for the flight from Kennedy Space Center to Washington, DC, but it should be close enough to finish up in one trip. DC to New York City is a short flight, so expect a direct shot there with no intermediate stop.Endeavour on the other hand will need two fueling stops on its trek to Los Angeles. I doubt those are going to take any public relations visits into consideration, with the possible exception of maybe a stopover at Ellington Field since it is in Johnson Space Center's backyard. The flight planning and route weather are probably going to be the big determining factors as to where the Shuttle Carrier Aircraft goes though, just like a ferry from Edwards or back to Palmdale during the shuttle's operational period. |
OV-105
Member Posts: 816
From: Ridgecrest, CA
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted 01-13-2012 09:23 PM
That is the first time I have ever seen a photo from inside the tailcone. A really different view. |
Jay Chladek
Member Posts: 2272
From: Bellevue, NE, USA
Registered: Aug 2007
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posted 01-15-2012 08:21 AM
Is there any particular reason why they are shipping Discovery to Udvar Hazy without OMS engine bells? I see the OMS pods are back (as empty shells), but it seems weird seeing them without any OMS bells installed. Do they still plan to install the bells at its destination after it arrives, or is there some stumbling block that prevents their installation at this time? |
dabolton
Member Posts: 419
From: Seneca, IL, US
Registered: Jan 2009
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posted 01-18-2012 03:44 PM
What preparation will Discovery require upon arrival at the National Air and Space Museum? Can they just wheel it right off the tarmac into the museum? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 02-23-2012 10:30 AM
Photographer Jook Leung presents 360-degree views of Discovery's flight deck and mid-deck in its final, ready for delivery to the Smithsonian configuration. A virtual tour of Space Shuttle Discovery (OV-103) flight deck and mid-deck before it is sealed for flight to its final destination at the Smithsonian's National Air and Space Museum in Washington D.C. Arrival is planned for April 17, 2012. |
OV-105
Member Posts: 816
From: Ridgecrest, CA
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted 02-23-2012 02:36 PM
They only have one MS seat on the flight deck and two on the mid deck, where did the other two seats end up? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 02-23-2012 02:45 PM
I don't know for certain, but I believe they are being delivered to the Smithsonian separately for display outside of Discovery. |
Fezman92
Member Posts: 1031
From: New Jersey, USA
Registered: Mar 2010
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posted 02-23-2012 03:02 PM
When the orbiters are sealed, how tight will the seal be? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 02-23-2012 03:16 PM
By sealed, NASA is referring to the same procedures followed before any of the previous ferry flights. The hatch can be reopened as needed or desired once the orbiter arrives at its destination. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 02-28-2012 07:49 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
I don't know for certain, but I believe they are being delivered to the Smithsonian separately for display outside of Discovery.
I was mistaken; the third seat for the middeck is shipping separately but will be installed inside Discovery after the orbiter arrives. It will be positioned as if stowed for on-orbit operations (it couldn't fly that way though, during the ferry flight). The decision to not install all the chairs was to provide a little more room for movement inside the cabin, should curators or researchers need to get in there in the future. |
Rocketman!
Member Posts: 121
From: Redmond, Washington, USA
Registered: Dec 2007
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posted 03-28-2012 08:49 PM
On March 9, 2012, Atlantis was towed from the Vehicle Assembly Building (VAB) to Orbiter Processing Facility-1 (OPF-1), where it will continue to be prepared for public display. On its way to the OPF, Atlantis passed by space shuttle Discovery, which was rolled into the VAB. While we have seen a few of these chance pairings on previous occasions, I cannot recall a time when all three orbiters were seen together. It seems that the time may be right for a Space Shuttle family portrait. There are less than three weeks before Discovery's departure to the Smithsonian's Udvar-Hazy Center. Never again will all three remaining space-flown orbiters be together in one place ... and joined with the last flying 747 Shuttle Carrier Aircraft. The opportunity to stage a group photo seems too good to pass up, even if there may still be some parts missing on one or two of the orbiters. I wonder what it would take to make it happen ... 
Photoshop mash up by Dave Ginsberg. Originals: NASA |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 03-28-2012 09:12 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Rocketman!:
I wonder what it would take to make it happen...
In a word: money. Unfortunately, staging such a photo op requires a larger number of people than the program can afford, to say nothing of the schedule delays it would create for preparing Atlantis and Endeavour for their respective ferry flights and rollovers. Kennedy Space Center's public affairs office did look for an opportunity to take such a shot but it never materialized. |
MrSpace86
Member Posts: 1618
From: Gardner, KS, USA
Registered: Feb 2003
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posted 03-30-2012 12:08 AM
And I guess that is why spaceflight is now shifting to a more private funded approach. Money has been the issue for everything in recent years with NASA  |
ringo67
Member Posts: 179
From: Seekonk, Mass., USA
Registered: May 2003
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posted 04-08-2012 11:05 PM
So I was going over some great photos from Endeavour's flight deck that were taken recently and it got me wondering...Is there any kind of plaque or markings inside the orbiters that identifies them? I was thinking of something like the plaques on the the bridge of the ships in "Star Trek." My guess is the answer will be no, and if so, that's unfortunate. Of course the other question is: With all the panels full of switches and controllers, where would you put one? |
Beau08
Member Posts: 159
From: Peoria, AZ United States
Registered: Aug 2011
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posted 05-11-2012 11:05 AM
Robert, that photo of Endeavour's lite up interior is FANTASTIC!! Will there be a hi-res download available? As this would make a great poster. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 05-11-2012 11:17 AM
Thanks! I'm still working out how best to make high resolution files or prints available, but in the meantime, here's a 1280x800 pixel version sized for desktop wallpaper... |
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 05-11-2012 12:51 PM
quote:
Originally posted by ringo67:
Is there any kind of plaque or markings inside the orbiters that identifies them?
I don't have the book in front of me, and its fiction, but Shuttle Down mentions that there's a plaque in the payload bay noting the shuttle was built at Rockwell.My guess if there is any kind of identifier, it would be like the typical label found on Apollo spacecraft, with a "Spacecraft No." followed by its OV number. Dennis Jenkins might be a good one to ask. |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42988
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 05-11-2012 12:58 PM
There are no plaques or name identifiers in the crew compartment. I asked about distinguishing features and there are a few, but they seem to be more from use than meant as an intentional identifier. For example, one of the orbiters (Atlantis) has a small paint mark on its flight deck that the others do not. |
Hart Sastrowardoyo
Member Posts: 3445
From: Toms River, NJ
Registered: Aug 2000
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posted 05-11-2012 01:01 PM
quote:
Originally posted by OV-105:
They only have one MS seat on the flight deck and two on the mid deck, where did the other two seats end up?
Which reminds me: the orbiters can have at least eight seats (the total carried on STS-61A.) So how many shuttle seats do they have? Do they have 34 (six orbiters, eight seats each = 48 less the 14 lost on Challenger and Columbia = 34) or can the seats be swapped between orbiters if more seats are needed? |
OV-105
Member Posts: 816
From: Ridgecrest, CA
Registered: Sep 2000
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posted 05-11-2012 01:33 PM
The CDR and PLT seats are a different type than the MS/PS seats. I would think each orbiter would have come with 5 MS/PS seats when they were delivered. They may not have been on the orbiter but were part of the price. I think that the seats on them now are different than when first delivered that new light weight seats were used for MIR/ISS flights. |
Spaceguy5
Member Posts: 427
From: Pampa, TX, US
Registered: May 2011
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posted 06-13-2012 03:05 AM
Wait... So on Endeavour, they're just leaving the ~27" tunnel (which was attached to the ODS) in the payload bay, instead of restoring the original airlock hatch/cover? It looks like on all the orbiters, they're leaving the payload bay sort of a mess. Personally I think at least Atlantis should have had it's payload bay restored to flight conditions (arm, external airlock, APAS, some sort of retired payload like an MPLM, ICC, LMC, or even a Spacehab module) considering the KSCVC plans to display it with doors open. By the way, I noticed all of the external airlocks have the APAS removed. I wonder what they plan to do with them. quote:
Originally posted by ringo67:
Is there any kind of plaque or markings inside the orbiters that identifies them?
I know some parts have the OV number written on them. For example, I have an MLI blanket that was scrapped from Endeavour, and the barcode lists OV-105. |
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