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Author
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Topic: Astronaut apologizes for praising Churchill
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gliderpilotuk
Member Posts: 3398
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 10-09-2018 11:17 AM
   
Very sad that he feels he has to give in, as reported here to the uninformed "hurt feelings" of a few online warriors. Scott Kelly, who commanded three expeditions to the International Space Station, prompted an angry response from those who said that Churchill was responsible for the severity of a famine in 1943 in the Bengal province of what was then British India, in which more than two million people died.In the initial post on Twitter, which came after Brett Kavanaugh was confirmed as a US Supreme Court judge, Mr. Kelly said: "One of the greatest leaders of modern times, Sir Winston Churchill said: 'In victory, magnanimity.' I guess those days are over." After receiving a slew of critical comments, he apologised, saying Churchill had racist views and was responsible for "atrocities". |
Cozmosis22
Member Posts: 968
From: Texas * Earth
Registered: Apr 2011
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posted 10-09-2018 12:22 PM
What is a shame is how social media has morphed into a cesspool of haters and bullies. Kudos to astronaut Scott Kelly for his original Twitter post and too bad he had to apologize for telling the truth. |
OLDIE
Member Posts: 267
From: Portsmouth, England
Registered: Sep 2004
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posted 10-09-2018 12:41 PM
If the selection of social media quoted is typical, please let's keep this website free of such petulant childish chatter. |
capoetc
Member Posts: 2169
From: McKinney TX (USA)
Registered: Aug 2005
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posted 10-09-2018 12:58 PM
Recommend locking this thread. Nothing good can come of it.I will refrain from stating an opinion for or against since doing so would inherently be a political statement, as was Kelly's original tweet. |
dom
Member Posts: 855
From:
Registered: Aug 2001
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posted 10-09-2018 02:08 PM
'Astronut' Kelly's comments are just what you'd expected from a privileged white man flying the flag for the 1% #biasedNASAelite(PS - this is satire) |
David C
Member Posts: 1014
From: Lausanne
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted 10-09-2018 03:38 PM
quote:
Originally posted by capoetc:
Recommend locking this thread. Nothing good can come of it.
I'm inclined to agree. Almost anything can be taken as a political statement if you try hard enough - sadly. |
1202 Alarm
Member Posts: 436
From: Switzerland & France
Registered: Nov 2003
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posted 10-09-2018 03:40 PM
Apologizing for quoting Sir W. Churchill? Scott Kelly, come on...
Quoting von Braun, anyone? |
jimsz
Member Posts: 616
From:
Registered: Aug 2006
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posted 10-09-2018 04:06 PM
I wouldn't have apologized but if Mr Kelly thinks it is the right thing to do for himself, that's his business. He is a businessman protecting his brand.
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Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3118
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 10-09-2018 06:03 PM
How long before NASA issues a public apology for the outrageous desecration of the Moon by Neil Armstrong and the 11 other sacrilegious violators to placate some unknown sect who hold it sacred? |
Robert Pearlman
Editor Posts: 42981
From: Houston, TX
Registered: Nov 1999
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posted 10-09-2018 11:07 PM
An apology does not necessarily mean a surrender. In 1998, NASA apologized to the Navajo Nation after it became public that Lunar Prospector carried some of planetary scientist Gene Shoemaker's ashes to the moon. Navajo traditions hold the moon sacred and placing ashes there is something they consider sacrilege. NASA apologized for the offense and pledged to consult with Native Americans should it ever consider to do something like that again. Scott Kelly apologized because it was not his intention to offend anyone. His point of quoting Churchill was to emphasize the need for being generous and forgiving. To not apologize would go against the concept of the quote. |
Blackarrow
Member Posts: 3118
From: Belfast, United Kingdom
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 10-10-2018 08:27 PM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
An apology does not necessarily mean a surrender... Scott Kelly apologized because it was not his intention to offend anyone.
...and yet his craven apology managed to offend many others. It is fortunate for the world that there were men like Churchill and Harry S. Truman who took agonizing decisions in the midst of a terrible world war. The buck stopped with the leaders. Scott Kelly should stick to what he knows. |
ManInSpace
Member Posts: 114
From: Brooklin, Ontario Canada
Registered: Feb 2018
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posted 10-10-2018 10:03 PM
While I respect Robert's earlier alternative interpretation, I too am disappointed with Kelly's apology, and concur with Blackarrows' take on this.Churchill indeed had his flaws and was a product of his generation and class, however when his fellow countrymen were calling for appeasement it was his relentless leadership that stood up not only for Great Britain but the remaining nations not yet under Nazi rule. |
gliderpilotuk
Member Posts: 3398
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2002
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posted 10-11-2018 03:03 AM
Robert, I think you're playing with words. Kelly apologized for quoting Churchill but then went on to clearly imply that Churchill had racist views and conducted atrocities. Quote: "My apologies. I will go and educate myself further on his atrocities, racist views which I do not support." A surprisingly uninformed, knee-jerk response whereby he validates the myopic views of those who can't even remember what Churchill did for freedom and the society in which they are now able to freely spout off. Luckily the Twitter responses how foolish his comments were. quote:
Originally posted by jimsz:
He is a businessman protecting his brand.
A great businessman thinks before opening his mouth! Judging by the Twitter responses he has just alienated a major section of society. |
David C
Member Posts: 1014
From: Lausanne
Registered: Apr 2012
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posted 10-11-2018 09:09 AM
quote:
Originally posted by Robert Pearlman:
NASA apologized for the offense...
An unwise and unnecessary apology in my opinion, but perhaps a subject for a different thread. |
TheFonz
New Member Posts: 3
From: Louisiana
Registered: Jan 2013
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posted 10-11-2018 03:31 PM
I have a problem with people today judging people of the past, especially historical figures, by modern standards. People are a products of their time; they should only be judged by the standards of their time.Yes, Churchill had some flaws and ideas that would be considered unsavory today. However, was he any really more racist than 85% of the British men of the time? I find Churchill to be a fascinating figure of history, and it is unfair to judge him by modern standards. I'd bet anyone here ten bucks that their grandfathers had tendencies to be racist. My grandfather was a product of his time - born in the deep south in 1920. Does it make him a horrible person? No! He was a good man overall. |
oly
Member Posts: 905
From: Perth, Western Australia
Registered: Apr 2015
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posted 10-13-2018 04:24 AM
This is all about context, and while Churchill led the UK through one of its darkest hours, resulting in the gratitude of a nation and a place in history, he was also the architect or one of the worst formulated plans that led to the senseless slaughter of thousands of troops during WW1.So to quote someone with such a divided history could always lead to contention because there are many different perspectives, or contexts, about what Churchill represents. The same could be said when quoting any significant historical figure. The world we live in today seems to view history with a different perspective and in a different context to the way in which it was viewed in the past. I believe that there is some issue within the U.S. regarding the removal of statues or figures of people who were deemed worthy of remembrance by their generation, or generations later, that are now viewed in a different context. The same could be said for many different countries. I do not know why Mr. Kelly felt that his comments warranted an apology, nor do I know what compelled him to make the quote in the first place, but he has done so, and I hope it was for his own reasons. he would have been better of making a statement of his own than to put someone else's words into a new context. |
Jonnyed
Member Posts: 396
From: Dumfries, VA, USA
Registered: Aug 2014
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posted 10-13-2018 11:33 AM
The overly-simple "internet judgements" that we all have a tendency to make these days grossly miss the complex content of decisions from scores or even hundreds of years ago, in which if we were to find ourselves in the same circumstances of 18th century or 19th century thinking may have done exactly the same thing or worse. It's easy to be a "30-second" judge, and much more difficult to appreciate the context of many years ago. What people should be apologizing for is snap judgements based on little contemplation. |
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