posted January 26, 2012 08:54 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Dougin SoCA:
One episode that got my attention involved a map that was actually used at the battle of Iwo Jima in WW II.

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posted January 26, 2012 09:02 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by fredtrav:
The kid says it was found in the Bahamas, Apollo 11 splashed down in the Pacific. They did not seem to pick up on that.

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posted February 15, 2012 11:49 AM               

I get a kick out of the show and find that their expertise in our hobby is lacking compared to their knowledge of other genres. The handwriting expert apparently didn't know it was Charlie Duke's printing under the photo, and the historian suggested that such a flag was likely in the PPK of the astronauts (which he called the "personal preference package").

Here's my question for the experts here — would a flag that was clearly intended for a presentation like this have been included in a PPK, or would a number of such flags have been packed in some nook of the CM by NASA and removed after the flight? Given the limited space in a PPK wouldn't NASA have let the astronauts use it for their own items?

posted February 22, 2012 12:18 AM               

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Clow:
Here's my question for the experts here — would a flag that was clearly intended for a presentation like this have been included in a PPK, or would a number of such flags have been packed in some nook of the CM by NASA and removed after the flight?

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My Apollo Aggie patch/US flag combo presentation is from the same general family of presentations as shown in the original post.

I now know the flag at least is a lunar-surface-flown item as clarified with Charlie Duke at the November 2011 Astronaut Autograph and Memorabilia Show. His certification added to the reverse side of the matting board is shown in the second image (I thought it best to leave the front in original condition).

When we were talking about the piece he immediately recognized the flag and his comment was something very close to 'Yeah, those went with me in my LM PPK'. He couldn't say whether the patch was lunar orbit or surface flown but had no ambiguity about the flag and certified accordingly.

I do not know for certain that the same applies to each and every flag in similar presentations from A16 but that's the background here.

It's a favorite and cherished item of mine as an Aggie, made more special by the chance to speak with Charlie about it and learn/certify the lunar-surface origin of the flag. As it turned out the person to whom it was dedicated (Bob Finlay) was also the father-in-law of my wife's favorite professor at A&M. Small world.

So, the astronaut's PPK did indeed carry the flag - to the lunar surface in fact - for the present example. The Personal Preference in this case would seem to be sharing the experience and thanking significant others using flags held in private stowage.

Hope this is helpful.

posted February 22, 2012 11:58 AM               

Note that the kit itself is stored inside a regular PPK bag which is itemised separately. In later flights PPK bags were occasionally used to carry other equipment but these are not really PPK items.

posted February 22, 2012 01:20 PM               

Really can't recall with great precision whether the words "my PPK" or "a PPK" were used, though I still think it was the former. I am quite certain the term PPK was used to describe the flag's transport aboard Orion to the lunar surface.

The original recipient of my presentation was a friend of the Dukes by way of a familial link to Ludy Benjamin Sr., head of still photography at NASA JSC, photographer of the Duke family picture that was left on the moon, and a fellow South Carolinian.

In that respect I'd call the flag (and patch) items of a truly personal nature rather than NASA-official mementos to be given to foreign/domestic dignitaries or entities.

posted February 22, 2012 01:39 PM               

Instead, Apollo 17 carried 2,000 4"x6" U.S. flags, 300 of which were released to the crew for their personal distribution post-flight.

Apollo 17 was the first flight to include an Official Flight Kit though, so prior flights may have had different configurations.

posted February 22, 2012 02:51 PM               

The Apollo 17 OFK is shown on the Stowage List with a 13.5 pound weight versus 0.7-0.9 pounds for the flag kit on previous missions, other than Apollo 7 with a 2.5 pound weight (all figures taken from Chris' website above).

The OFK in the case of Apollo 17 had both flags and other NASA-official items for return so it's not a direct comparison, but the 2000 4"x6" U.S. flags mentioned for Apollo 17 represent a big bump.

Consistent with many previous flights, the Apollo 16 Press Kit seems pretty clear in itemizing the official NASA flag kit contents as far more limited:

Also carried on the mission and returned to Earth will be 25 United States flags, 50 individual state flags, flags of United States territories, flags of other national states which are generally accepted as independent in the world community, and flags of the United Nations and other international organizations. These flags are 10 by 15cm (four by six inches).